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Forums - General Discussion - ‘You’ve made your choice’: Man shares dad’s brutal letter disowning him for being gay

NintendoPie on 12 August 2012
happydolphin said:
NintendoPie said:

You always get beat up/ganged up on by other people it seems...

That's because I'm controversial Pie. I don't hold the mainstream point of view for most topics, so I stir people up.

That's sweet of you to say though.

Tbh, I pride myself of thinking differently and challenging the status quo. It's a part of my life.

Keep in mind, my ideas are always changing, thanks to you guys and my own reasonings, but in general my PoV is often contrasting with most people, and that's how I like it.

Well, that's always good. But sometimes I just feel kinda bad about it. 

(Pity time should end soon as Mods miight not like it...)



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Runa216 on 12 August 2012
Marks said:
Runa216 said:
Marks said:

It's not something I would choose personally. And there may be some studies that support it not being a choice, but it will never be a set in stone fact such as 2+2=4. I still think nurture plays a big part as well as nature. 

While we're at it, The earth is the center of the universe, evolution is a myth, and the world is flat!  


Your claims here aren't up for debate though. The earth has been seen from space so we know for a fact it's flat and not the centre of the universe...and evolution has been well documented. But although there may be many solid sounding theories that homosexuality is nature, not nurture, it's not something there's a way to prove. 

Like I obviously don't think you can take a gay man and beat/electroshock the gay out of him or something stupid like that, but I do think as a child is developing that his lifestyle can contribute to his sexuality. 

Neither is the gay thing.  Did you read  darthdevidem01's post?  Educate yourself.  

From this point forward, I will have no problem calling anyone who doesn't accept homosexuality barbaric and bigoted.  So sick of this behaviour.  If you have a problem with gays or think it's an abomination or that it's a birth defect or that it's something that needs to be coaxed out of people then you are a sickening individual, and you don't deserve the right to discuss such issues with civilized folk.  



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Runa216 on 12 August 2012
happydolphin said:
NintendoPie said:

You always get beat up/ganged up on by other people it seems...

That's because I'm controversial Pie. I don't hold the mainstream point of view for most topics, so I stir people up.

That's sweet of you to say though.

Tbh, I pride myself of thinking differently and challenging the status quo. It's a part of my life.

Keep in mind, my ideas are always changing, thanks to you guys and my own reasonings, but in general my PoV is often contrasting with most people, and that's how I like it.

No, it's not that you're controversial or that you don't agree, it's that your viewpoints are misguided and intolerant.  if you, say, felt that Justin Bieber was the bees knees or that Led Zeppelin were a horrible band, I'd disagree with you but it certainly wouldn't piss me off.  The gay issue is a really big deal, in a civilized world, and you're doing all you can to muddle the facts with your arguments just so that your viewpoint is heard and respected when it deserves no respect.  

For the most part, anyway.  Some of what you have to say is alright, but some is downright ignorant.  



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happydolphin on 12 August 2012
Runa216 said:

No, it's not that you're controversial or that you don't agree, it's that your viewpoints are misguided and intolerant.  if you, say, felt that Justin Bieber was the bees knees or that Led Zeppelin were a horrible band, I'd disagree with you but it certainly wouldn't piss me off.  The gay issue is a really big deal, in a civilized world, and you're doing all you can to muddle the facts with your arguments just so that your viewpoint is heard and respected when it deserves no respect.  

For the most part, anyway.  Some of what you have to say is alright, but some is downright ignorant.  

I can live with that. I think whether what I say is wrong or right, what really matters is that I can argue it with people who disagree with me, so that if I'm ignorant they can help me change my mind.



Nem on 12 August 2012
Player1x3 said:
Nem said:
Jay520 said:
happydolphin said:

1.) Currently the answer is we don't know, just like for the believer the answer about how God is the origin of all things material is "we don't know". However, deists believe God is the end of the chain of questions.

2.) For an atheist, is there an end to the chain of questions, or do we just not know?

3.) Also, if there is an end to the chain of questions, would it be a fully naturalistic explanation, completely self sustaining? Something like, in exceptional cases, matter and energy can be spontaneously created out of nothing, for absolutely no reason?


1.) The difference is that athiests don't believe in any entity or idea without justification. There is evidence that suggests the Big Bang has occured. That is justified. However, there is no justified explanation for why the Big Bang occured. There are an inifinite amount of possibilities for why the Big Bang started and there's no justification to put faith into any of them. Simply assuming God is the source with no justification is premature narrow-minded. It hinders plenty of other, equally justified, possibilities. If we simply blamed God for everything we couldn't understand, we would have missed out on a lot scientific breakthroughs.

2.) I don't understand your question. Are you asking "Is there an answer to the chain of questions?" Well yes, of course there are answers. But, with our current knowledge and technology, we don't have those answers. It's better to accept your ignorance than place blind faith into something and be most likely wrong.

3.) Again, I don't know. And I'm probably not intelligent enough to even comprehend the comlpexities of the creation of the universe. 

Some things are just unexplainable and should just be left unexplainable. By using God to explain the unexplainable, you really create a lapse in logic. What you're saying is "I can't explain something...therefore, I can explain it (God)".


Indeed. When will people realise that god just cant exist. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Say even if god was the one that made the big ben, what made god? God just is? Then why cant the universe just be aswell? It was born from nothing, the struggle between matter and anti-mater. God is an uncessary step, there is no point to it. Matter or anti-matter win and the rest of the laws of the universe come into place as the particles interact with each other. As much as we wish there would be a god, there really is no sense to that possibility.

But, here on earth we have a bunch of clowns discriminating, murdering in the name of something that doesnt exist. Its nothing but collective insanity when it gets to that point. The only god there is is chance. The chance that made this star called sun the size it is and this rock called earth forming just at the right distance. Just the same chance that is gonna bring the andromeda galaxy coming crashing down on the milky way or any stray comet or celestial body or gamma burst that can fry us at any time. The gods are us, born in the blink of an eye out of pure chance, with a chance to outgrow the laws of the universe to survive past the blink of luck that spawned us.

So...much...fail...in one post...this post gave me cancer


If you have any arguments, bring them forth. My post is supported by science and logic, where is yours?

Also, best get that cancer treated because no god or afterlife is gonna help you with that.



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Runa216 on 12 August 2012
happydolphin said:
Runa216 said:

No, it's not that you're controversial or that you don't agree, it's that your viewpoints are misguided and intolerant.  if you, say, felt that Justin Bieber was the bees knees or that Led Zeppelin were a horrible band, I'd disagree with you but it certainly wouldn't piss me off.  The gay issue is a really big deal, in a civilized world, and you're doing all you can to muddle the facts with your arguments just so that your viewpoint is heard and respected when it deserves no respect.  

For the most part, anyway.  Some of what you have to say is alright, but some is downright ignorant.  

I can live with that. I think whether what I say is wrong or right, what really matters is that I can argue it with people who disagree with me, so that if I'm ignorant they can help me change my mind.

except nobody EVER changes their opinion as a result of losing an online debate.  Nobody. Ever.  So what you're saying is that arguing with you is pointless? 



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NintendoPie on 12 August 2012
Runa216 said:

except nobody EVER changes their opinion as a result of losing an online debate.  Nobody. Ever.  So what you're saying is that arguing with you is pointless? 

Arguing with anybody online could be considered pointless.

That's why people leave sites like these I guess, they get tired of arguing for no real reason. (Since most people on here argue and then forget everything about it an live life the same way they did before.)



Runa216 on 12 August 2012
Nem said:
Player1x3 said:
Nem said:
Jay520 said:
happydolphin said:

1.) Currently the answer is we don't know, just like for the believer the answer about how God is the origin of all things material is "we don't know". However, deists believe God is the end of the chain of questions.

2.) For an atheist, is there an end to the chain of questions, or do we just not know?

3.) Also, if there is an end to the chain of questions, would it be a fully naturalistic explanation, completely self sustaining? Something like, in exceptional cases, matter and energy can be spontaneously created out of nothing, for absolutely no reason?


1.) The difference is that athiests don't believe in any entity or idea without justification. There is evidence that suggests the Big Bang has occured. That is justified. However, there is no justified explanation for why the Big Bang occured. There are an inifinite amount of possibilities for why the Big Bang started and there's no justification to put faith into any of them. Simply assuming God is the source with no justification is premature narrow-minded. It hinders plenty of other, equally justified, possibilities. If we simply blamed God for everything we couldn't understand, we would have missed out on a lot scientific breakthroughs.

2.) I don't understand your question. Are you asking "Is there an answer to the chain of questions?" Well yes, of course there are answers. But, with our current knowledge and technology, we don't have those answers. It's better to accept your ignorance than place blind faith into something and be most likely wrong.

3.) Again, I don't know. And I'm probably not intelligent enough to even comprehend the comlpexities of the creation of the universe. 

Some things are just unexplainable and should just be left unexplainable. By using God to explain the unexplainable, you really create a lapse in logic. What you're saying is "I can't explain something...therefore, I can explain it (God)".


Indeed. When will people realise that god just cant exist. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Say even if god was the one that made the big ben, what made god? God just is? Then why cant the universe just be aswell? It was born from nothing, the struggle between matter and anti-mater. God is an uncessary step, there is no point to it. Matter or anti-matter win and the rest of the laws of the universe come into place as the particles interact with each other. As much as we wish there would be a god, there really is no sense to that possibility.

But, here on earth we have a bunch of clowns discriminating, murdering in the name of something that doesnt exist. Its nothing but collective insanity when it gets to that point. The only god there is is chance. The chance that made this star called sun the size it is and this rock called earth forming just at the right distance. Just the same chance that is gonna bring the andromeda galaxy coming crashing down on the milky way or any stray comet or celestial body or gamma burst that can fry us at any time. The gods are us, born in the blink of an eye out of pure chance, with a chance to outgrow the laws of the universe to survive past the blink of luck that spawned us.

So...much...fail...in one post...this post gave me cancer


If you have any arguments, bring them forth. My post is supported by science and logic, where is yours?

Also, best get that cancer treated because no god or afterlife is gonna help you with that.

He doesn't have any.  He's very bigoted and has an agenda.  I haven't nailed down what that agenda is, becuase he USUALLY argues on the religious zealot side,  but I've seen him argue on the opposing side, as well.  I think he's just taking the unpopular, ignorant side as a challenge or something to give people something to argue about.  

At least that's the only explanation I can think of as to why he's always wrong and refuses to admit it. I'm not sure it's even possible to be THAT narrow minded and intolerant and still be able to breathe.  



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Runa216 on 12 August 2012
NintendoPie said:
Runa216 said:

except nobody EVER changes their opinion as a result of losing an online debate.  Nobody. Ever.  So what you're saying is that arguing with you is pointless? 

Arguing with anybody online could be considered pointless.

That's why people leave sites like these I guess, they get tired of arguing for no real reason. (Since most people on here argue and then forget everything about it an live life the same way they did before.)

I'm kind of mean, though.  I argue with people over things like this becuase I get a sort of a high knowing that I'm dealing with an ignoramus.  It feels good to know I'm better than some people, and seeing these threads is further proof.  I'm kind of mean, but at least I'm not trying to convince the world that being gay is a choice or peddling some other nonsense that is completely contradicted by science. 

You're cool, though.  I like you.  in fact I like most people on here, just not the ones that use religion as a basis for an argument and demand I take them seriously. 



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NintendoPie on 12 August 2012
Runa216 said:

I'm kind of mean, though.  I argue with people over things like this becuase I get a sort of a high knowing that I'm dealing with an ignoramus.  It feels good to know I'm better than some people, and seeing these threads is further proof.  I'm kind of mean, but at least I'm not trying to convince the world that being gay is a choice or peddling some other nonsense that is completely contradicted by science. 

You're cool, though.  I like you.  in fact I like most people on here, just not the ones that use religion as a basis for an argument and demand I take them seriously. 

I thought you were a meanie all the time at first but then I got to know you better. (You like Pokemon, end of story. )

I am Religious, you know. :P (I'm not a stupid Religious person, though. Or maybe you could consider it a more Modern way of thinking...?)

Anywho! Thanks for telling me that!