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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Is Ocarina of Time still the greatest game, ever?

Khuutra on 02 August 2011
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:
RolStoppable said:

How is The Legend of Zelda less flawed than ALttP? You need to explain this, otherwise I won't be able to grasp what you are trying to say.

Okay but before I do this: are you ready to have a discussion about semantics?

Yes, if you are ready to accept that I might shrug off parts of your post like I always do.


Okay, but you were warned.

I need to establish that in this context I'm equating "perfect" with "flawless" because that's all that it can mean in the arts. There is no Platonic ideal of the absolutely ideal video game which all other games strive to be.

Now, I hold that the Legend of Zelda is less flawed than Link to the Past because that is the nature of its design: it is a simpler game with a more focused content delivery and less dithering about, so it almost can't help but be less flawed. The same is true with SMB and SMB3: the original is a more focused, tighter game, more elegant in its simplicity.



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bmmb1 on 02 August 2011

Well I am one of the lucky ones who never played the original, am playing OOT on my 3DS now and absolutely loving every moment. Whether it is the greatest game ever I don't know, all I know is that anyone with a 3DS that even remotely enjoys this type of game should get it. And, at least for anyone who has never played the game (maybe also for those who did and enjoyed it), I would consider it to be a good enough reason to get the 3DS.



Currently Playing: Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked, Professor Layton and the Curious Village

Anticipating: Xenoblade, The Last Story, Mario Kart 7, Rayman Origins, Zelda SS, Crush3D, Tales of the Abyss 3DS, MGS:Snake Eater 3DS, RE:Revelations, Time Travellers, Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney, Luigi's Mansion 2, MH TriG, DQ Monsters, Heroes of Ruin

Moren on 02 August 2011

Well, I don't think it ever was.
Since I played it AFTER Majora Mask, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, it felt amazingly outdated, even if compared with MM.
Don't take me wrong, it was great, but it wasn't what I expected when I downloaded it. (And playing it AFTER the way superior in every way TP didn't help either )



Khuutra on 02 August 2011
RolStoppable said:

Okay, I see now.

Although this approach isn't entirely fair, because it basically means that the less stuff you can do in a game, the closer to perfection it can be. It completely disregards the existence of the flaw named "I wish I could do more".

By your definition, Tetris is pretty much the perfect game. Now I don't entirely disagree with your definition (in fact I really like it), but I want to say that the amount of stuff that can be done in a game should be factored in and if one game allows for far more things to be done and does the majority of them well, then it should count for something. I'll give you an example:

Game A does nine out of ten things really well, game B does 17 out of 20 things really well. So game A is 10 % away from perfection while game B is 15 % away. So...

Actually, just forget about it. I don't know if this is going to lead anywhere.

It's better to focus on the issue at hand here and this originally was OoT vs. either SMB3, SM and ALttP. Is OoT less flawed than either of these games? No. Therefore the three games I mentioned are indeed closer to perfection than OoT ever was.

But this actually brings up another point. It then means that the issue you had with my post wasn't that I said OoT is less perfect than SMB3, SM and ALttP. The problem you have is that I said SMB3 and ALttP were closer to perfection than SMB and TLoZ which according to you isn't the case.

What exactly am I supposed to fight for here? I concede that you made a good point in your initial reply.


Simple: that "better" and "less flawed" aren't the same thing. You hinted at it yourself: a game can have more flaws but still be the better game, like with LttP compared to LoZ.

Ocarina is more flawed than Link to the Past - I don't necessarily agree with that, but we'll say so for the sake of discussion. But I still hold that Ocarina is a better game, in spite of being more imperfect.



Khuutra on 02 August 2011
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:

Simple: that "better" and "less flawed" aren't the same thing. You hinted at it yourself: a game can have more flaws but still be the better game, like with LttP compared to LoZ.

Ocarina is more flawed than Link to the Past - I don't necessarily agree with that, but we'll say so for the sake of discussion. But I still hold that Ocarina is a better game, in spite of being more imperfect.

So the only thing we actually disagree on is Ocarina of Time, but we knew about that before.


That is the case now, yes. I will agree Super Metroid was probably more perfect than OoT, but I think OoT was better than SM, too.



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Khuutra on 02 August 2011
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:


That is the case now, yes. I will agree Super Metroid was probably more perfect than OoT, but I think OoT was better than SM, too.

Well, your opinion is wrong.


Your opinion is like an obese man riding a tricycle: comedic but disconcerting.



TRAVIS!!! on 02 August 2011

the first time I played it was 1999 or 2000 i think...I thought it was an amazing game but not the best game ever...I recently finished it again on the 3DS and my opinion hasn't changed.
In my opinion, Twilight Princess is the best game ever, it's superior to OoT in every aspect...



Pavolink on 02 August 2011
SqueakySamurai said:

Why do people think OOT is the best game of all time? Really, all I can think of is it's great level design and music. Don't get me wrong, I love OOT, but I think the best game of all time should have a great narrative and amazing characters. OOT is none of that. It's the same story as the other games, Zelda is kidnapped by Ganon and Link has to use the Triforce to defeat him and save the princess. I seriously don't care about what happens to the characters, for example, if Link died, I would be shocked that they did that, but I'm not in any way attached to him, besides just the good memories of playing the games. For me, the greatest game of ALL TIME has to have some sort of artistic value in the sense of morals or messages, not aesthetically. The greatest game of ALL TIME has to have fun game-play(duh), great music, well-developed characters that form a bond with the player, a good story, and some sort of artistic value.

For example, I think Metal Gear Solid is the best game of all time, because it has all of those attributes, mainly the character development and story, and OOT doesn't. MGS is the only form of media I have ever cried at, not even Toy Story 3, but OOT is just an extremely well designed game that is very fun and clever at the same time.

But I don't think people care, OOT is always going to be considered the best game of all time, no matter what, simply because of arrogance and shallowness in generally the whole gaming community, I'm not bashing on OOT or the fans AT ALL, I'm just trying to make a point here.

Just my opinion.

The Ocarina of Time game I played didn't have that story. Maybe what play was Master Quest or a spin-off.



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cyberninja45 on 02 August 2011
Khuutra said:
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:

Simple: that "better" and "less flawed" aren't the same thing. You hinted at it yourself: a game can have more flaws but still be the better game, like with LttP compared to LoZ.

Ocarina is more flawed than Link to the Past - I don't necessarily agree with that, but we'll say so for the sake of discussion. But I still hold that Ocarina is a better game, in spite of being more imperfect.

So the only thing we actually disagree on is Ocarina of Time, but we knew about that before.


That is the case now, yes. I will agree Super Metroid was probably more perfect than OoT, but I think OoT was better than SM, too.


I think yall are trying to  quantify(measure) what is the best game among a set. This is not wise (impossible) if its true that games are an artform. To avoid headaches, i think the only real way to get an idea whats the best game is by voting.



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Edouble24 on 02 August 2011
RolStoppable said:
Was it really the best game of all time in the first place? That would have required it to beat Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Metroid or its own predecessor A Link to the Past which all were games equally or closer to perfection.

Once the hype is removed, OoT is "only" a very, very, very good game in the grand scheme of things. Also, I think A Link to the Past's makeover on the GBA was better received than OoT's remake on the 3DS, so when it comes to voting with your wallet, ALttP takes the cake.

What's left is that OoT has been incredibly influential on 3D games as a whole. Young people might not remember it, but before OoT combat in 3D was cumbersome. The Z-targeting allowed for drastically increased control in a 3D environment and many games have emulated it since then, whether that is in the same form or as some semi-automatic or completely automatic variation. There is a good reason why most developers agree on Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time being some of the most important games of all time.

Well the OoT remake just released so that's not a fair comparison. OoT has also been released twice on Gamecube prior to it's re-release. People will only buy it so many times. In terms of people speaking with their wallets, OoT outsold LttP in their original releases.