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Forums - General Discussion - Why do we exist,GOD or BIG BANG theory?

 

Who created everything?

GOD 184 41.82%
 
BIG BANG 251 57.05%
 
Total:435
sapphi_snake said:
Allfreedom99 said:
Something else I wanted to add. This may not be the case with all, but from my experience it seems that many individuals who think the idea of a higher being "God" is just totally strange and ridiculous is very much based in what their perception of "God" would be. They can't understand why a "higher being" would exist and why God would go to the trouble of creating the universe, life, ect. and what the sense is in a higher being existing. I think partly they also fear the existence of such a being with so much power.
Maybe they percieve God as some old bearded man in a white robe sitting in a chair in the clouds. Which is only a picture man has given, which Im sure is far from accurate. I think a lot of it has to do with how you percieve who this higher being is. I think the unkown is scary to some people and they dont want to believe such a being could possibly exist, but IMO it couldnt be more evident that such a vastly powerful being does exist.

Really? And do you have any way to back this up? My glasses must be dirty or something, 'cause I'm having trouble seeing this oh so obvious thing you describe.

Also, I'm sure you yourself find it scary that such a being DOESN'T exist, and this post is just the surfacing of your own frustration.

The question is how much time do you have to listen and read? I really think pretty much anything I say you will just misrepresent, take out of context, and say is ludicrous.




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I really don't see why the universe could not exist without intelligence.
On the other hand, God can't exist without intelligence.
Props if you understand.



 

Raido said:
Allfreedom99 said:

It seems you are ignoring what i am meaning. Regardless, we have the ability to understand, discern and use logic. This is my whole point, that the universe would not exist without intelligence. Space, time, and gravity does not possess intelligence or the ability to use Logic in and of themselves. The Universe and life cannot begin without it.

So there has to be an intelligent designer because there is intelligence? Wow, that's a ridiculous claim... 

And how did this intelligent designer came into being? Was there intelligence before? o.ô

Intelligence is something natural... It's nothing mystical!

Call it ridiculous if you want, but IMO it makes much more sense than anything else you can explain to me. How do you explain then that we have the ability of understanding? I would like to hear your explanation for how we can have complex thought? Because I dont see how anything complex can come about at all without a higher being possessing the intelligence to create it no matter if you have 100 years or billions of years for something complex to form. I would like to hear your explanation, Raido. And did I ever say intelligence is mystical? no I did not.

The only way I can explain a higher being is to say that Its eternal and has always been in existence. Your perception of God does not allow you to believe such a being could always be in existance.




Allfreedom99 said:

The question is how much time do you have to listen and read? I really think pretty much anything I say you will just misrepresent, take out of context, and say is ludicrous.

Context and misrepresentation aren't your enemies in this case, and neither is time. I could re-read your post all day long, but only crazy people expect different results from doing the exact same thing.



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God has nothing to do with the creation of the Universe, as we now know the  galaxies are moving away from eachother at an tremendous speed, so rewind that and it's clear that some explosion has happened ...

 

But we know so little about the universe cuz it's so big so it's easier to say that god created everything , and just leave it at that...

Being an atheist is not good for a society, it usualy dies when it stops believing in a superior being, they get less and less babyies...



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Allfreedom99 said:
Raido said:
Allfreedom99 said:

It seems you are ignoring what i am meaning. Regardless, we have the ability to understand, discern and use logic. This is my whole point, that the universe would not exist without intelligence. Space, time, and gravity does not possess intelligence or the ability to use Logic in and of themselves. The Universe and life cannot begin without it.

So there has to be an intelligent designer because there is intelligence? Wow, that's a ridiculous claim... 

And how did this intelligent designer came into being? Was there intelligence before? o.ô

Intelligence is something natural... It's nothing mystical!

Call it ridiculous if you want, but IMO it makes much more sense than anything else you can explain to me. How do you explain then that we have the ability of understanding? I would like to hear your explanation for how we can have complex thought? Because I dont see how anything complex can come about at all without a higher being possessing the intelligence to create it no matter if you have 100 years or billions of years for something complex to form. I would like to hear your explanation, Raido. And did I ever say intelligence is mystical? no I did not.

The only way I can explain a higher being is to say that Its eternal and has always been in existence. Your perception of God does not allow you to believe such a being could always be in existance.


if you accept the possibility of a being like god existing without being created, then you cannot deny the possibility of us existing without being created.  you cant say we are too complex when god would be infinitely more complex.



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nia-strain said:

God has nothing to do with the creation of the Universe, as we now know the  galaxies are moving away from eachother at an tremendous speed, so rewind that and it's clear that some explosion has happened ...

 

But we know so little about the universe cuz it's so big so it's easier to say that god created everything , and just leave it at that...

Being an atheist is not good for a society, it usualy dies when it stops believing in a superior being, they get less and less babyies...


So why piss on albanian flag lol?



Allfreedom99 said:Call it ridiculous if you want, but IMO it makes much more sense than anything else you can explain to me. How do you explain then that we have the ability of understanding? I would like to hear your explanation for how we can have complex thought? Because I dont see how anything complex can come about at all without a higher being possessing the intelligence to create it no matter if you have 100 years or billions of years for something complex to form. I would like to hear your explanation, Raido. And did I ever say intelligence is mystical? no I did not.

The only way I can explain a higher being is to say that Its eternal and has always been in existence. Your perception of God does not allow you to believe such a being could always be in existance.

I can't explain it in english, but you know, our thoughts are mainly just electrical impulses. It has evolved, and it makes totally sense! 

Complexity is a typical argument by religious people which was debunked a lot of times. For example, the eye is way to complex to have evolved. Yet, it was proven that an evolving eye is totally possible. So why can't intelligence have evolved? 

This is one of the weakest arguments I've seen so far. It can easily be debunked with the theory of evolution. And even if nobody could explain this, this would still be as much as an evidence for the existence of god as thunder and rainbows...



sapphi_snake said:
Allfreedom99 said:

Logic isn't something that exists? you must not be understanding me. You have logic and I have logic. We have the ability to give and experience reasoning. To discern and understand. yes, logic is something that exists. No scientific test that I am aware of suggests that dead matter will eventually obtain understanding, and the ability to reason. Dead matter is dead matter. You and I have the ability to understand and discern, because we were designed that way. If we look to Science then a universe with no intelligence to begin it is impossible.

You say I am giving limited possibilities, then what other possibilities do you suggest to explain the beginnings of our universe?

No, we have the mental capacity to utilise the tool that is called "logic". It is not something that exists independently. Also, the question you asked me, which I have put in italics, is so ridiculous given the extremely limited (yes, this is the truth) knowledge humans have of the universe, coupled with the inability to escape culture, and the reality it creates. I don't know much regarding the beginnings of the universe. It happened a long time ago, and I was not there to see it. Maybe sometime in the future people will develop a method to answer all these questions, but it ain't happening anytime soon, and quite frankly whatever answer I could provide you would be an assumption (more or less baseless, and probabyl proven wrong eventually).

That's actually totally true.

Hell for all we know the universe might of existed on a different dimension we can't see and was rotated to our dimension.

Kinda like the whole Flatland book.



Allfreedom99 said:

I'm sorry for the length of this post, but I think it sheds light on this subject if you read what I have to say...This topic as seen will always ignite debates with different belief systems. Of course everyone is entitled to their belief system but ultimately something happened that caused us to exist. So the question will always be asked.

I am seeing some on here imply that the existence of God contradicts Science and that it is impossible for one to believe in a God if they adhere completely to Science. This is ABSOLUTELY false. I will explain my viewpoint. One can indeed believe in God as well as adhere to Science.

Science indeed will always be science. Man will continually learn more of what Science already knows as science develops with new tools, new methods, and new events allowing for man to study science using mathematics, physics, ect. I concur that Science has yet to disprove that a higher power exists. Also we must say that man using Science cannot simply use a platform that captures the energy of a higher being that they can use the scientific method on. All a Scientist can do when trying to answer the question of if God exists is base the result on circumstantial evidence they can gather in the universe for the basics of life to exist.

When you take the question of where the universe began you have to look at when and how it all began. We ultimately have two options to choose from here.

1. In the beginning there was only space, time, and gravity that existed. From a singular point over an undetermined amount of time the universe began to be formed. (Without an intelligent being through mathematical possibilities and chance)

2. In the beginning a vastly intelligent and powerful being either began the process or created everything we know in the universe. (With a vastly intelligent being).

So you have to choose which option you will go. No matter what theory you come up with  on how the universe began you will always get to the starting point when it was either an intelligent being or only space, time, gravity that started the universe through mathematical possibilities. To use Science one must have logic. Without logic existing there would be no understanding of Science, nor any way to utilize mathematics at all.

My argument is that we by no means can have what exists today without some kind of intelligent being that set these things in place.

One of the stumbling blocks for any explanation of the universe without an intelligent designer is the fact that we have logic. Time and Time again you cannot put dead matter into a test environment and eventually come out with something that has obtained logic. Science proves this, does it not? There are many other factors I could discuss but based on the existence of logic alone that is absolute evidence of an intelligent creator whom we would refer to as God of the Universe.

Why space, time and gravity?

Space-time is the first four dimensions of our universe and there is no reason to think it has to exist outside of it and gravity is one of four forces - why would that exist outside the universe and why would the other three be excluded (although at the start of the universe according to supersymmetry they were a single unified force).