Um no.

we count everything. Always have, always will.

The ps3 sold a fat ZERO from Nov 2005-Nov 2006. 

It may not have been out physically at the time...........but it launched in PS3 fanboys hearts :P

Cmon guys........its embarrassing enough the former #1 console maker is loosing to a console that is failure prone and doesnt sell in Japan.............dont u find it shameful to spin victory when Sony SHOULD have been 2nd place years ago if they really knew what they were doing..........

People like you make me sad

Ah its the internetz, not serious business. Im sure we all lead productive and normal lives in the real :)

I don't :)

You may want to look a little further into your video game history before you make a statement like that. 

@ OT

Yes, launches aligned the PS3 has sold more than the 360 every year.  Should it be ignored, like some feel?  No.  It's just a different way at looking at data.  But, should it be the be all end all arugments?  Nah.  Reality is, MS is ahead by 2.9 mil going by shipped numbers.  And I do have to give MS kudos cause I personally didn't think they'd be able to hold off Sony this long.  Just goes to show how important price and having the majority of the same quality games is. 

On a personal note, I think that if they both launched around the same time, and the PS3 had only a price difference of $100 (instead of $200),  that the PS3 would definitely be king right now.  But, of course, this isn't the reality we live in. 

Wow...another "If I was 6'-6" and really quick and could jump high and shoot the rock I would be a superstar in the NBA" thread...lovely!

Depends what you're refering too.

Biggest financial failure, it is. We don't even know how much money it actually lost because it was also losing all the PS2 and PSP profits since 2006.

"Not outselling anything," in context to other consoles of this gen.

Sony anticipated dominating another gen. Not struggling to surpass a Xbox.

True.  There was definite arrogance on their part.  And I was mostly refering to the biggest financial failure.  That might actually go to the Xbox.  I've read it lost MS a little over 4 bil.  Estimates I found for Sony were ~4.5 - 5 billion.  Of course both of those are offset by game/controller purchases, and whatever each company had lumped in with the gaming division.  So, like you said, we don't know how much those both really cost.  But the real point is that Sony is selling the PS3 at a profit, now, and probably won't want to change that in the future.  So they probably still have 2 good years or more to sell at a profit, so who knows how much they will be able to make back.  The Xbox on the other hand is stuck at 4 mil.

Of course, you could probably go back farther, while adjusting losses according to inflation, and find an even greater financial failure.

@xboxsupport is in the guiness book of records for helpful support... I don't know why there is anything wrong with their staff. In fact I know plenty of people from both companies, they seem to be down to earth (sony and ms)... you shouldn't generalise.

Sony's gaming division lost about $5 billion since launching the PS3. As I mentioned, Sony was also profiting from PSP and PS2. Hence, PS3 was eating up profits of other Sony hardware, so it clearly lost far more than $5 billion. PS3 could have lost more like $6 or 7 billion.

Even if PS3 is being sold at a profit now, there will be inevitable price cuts to stay competitive. Hence, PS3 will not be seeing much profit in the coming years either.