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Forums - General Discussion - Why I am leaving the US...

chocoloco said:

Man, If Macain had won the election I would have left for Canada. Good luck to you.

Also if a Republican beats Obama in the next election, hello British Columbia.


You are missing the point. The problem isn't the administration. It's the government itself and it's programs.



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TheRealMafoo said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

Dunno if I agree with his numbers BUT I can see where he is coming from..over the past 10 years the gap between the compensation of an employee and the executives of the company has risen by a great margin, even when the recession was going on. Has it stopped now? nope it still as bad or worse...don't really care much for communism, socialism or even democracy, the spread of wealth can and should be better than this in the USA


The issue is are the rich getting rich at the expense of the poor? No. If you look at the times in the US where the growth of the rich getting richer was the fastest, the quality of life for the poor at that time was growing the fastest as well.

They poor's quality of life was improving because the rich were getting richer, not in spite of it. Yes, the rich were improving at a faster rate, but who cares? If they help everyone why they get rich, what's the problem?

This is the issue I take with the current US mindset (as apposed to 100 years ago). People today look at someone else and say "that's not fair" instead of just looking at yourself and saying "what can I do to make my life better".

When I was a kid, you heard of other people in the world being envious of the US because it was a place you could go and make your fortune. Today if you make a fortune, you're somehow evil, or something to be ashamed of. You become a target because you just don't diserve what you have.

It's a horrible mindset we as a country have become.

The nature of a capitalist economy is cyclical, the fact that the poor and the rich get richer at the same time doesn't prove that the poor are getting richer because the rich are. My interpretation would be the poor and the rich are both getting richer during an economic 'bubble'.  You seem to be misinterpreting the difference between correlation and causation.

Also you are building a strawman argument in my opinion, you are making out that because people believe it is fair to tax the rich more they somehow hate the rich. Progressives generally don't hate the rich or think they should be ashamed, they just think they have more and as such can afford to give more.



Rath said:
TheRealMafoo said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

Dunno if I agree with his numbers BUT I can see where he is coming from..over the past 10 years the gap between the compensation of an employee and the executives of the company has risen by a great margin, even when the recession was going on. Has it stopped now? nope it still as bad or worse...don't really care much for communism, socialism or even democracy, the spread of wealth can and should be better than this in the USA


The issue is are the rich getting rich at the expense of the poor? No. If you look at the times in the US where the growth of the rich getting richer was the fastest, the quality of life for the poor at that time was growing the fastest as well.

They poor's quality of life was improving because the rich were getting richer, not in spite of it. Yes, the rich were improving at a faster rate, but who cares? If they help everyone why they get rich, what's the problem?

This is the issue I take with the current US mindset (as apposed to 100 years ago). People today look at someone else and say "that's not fair" instead of just looking at yourself and saying "what can I do to make my life better".

When I was a kid, you heard of other people in the world being envious of the US because it was a place you could go and make your fortune. Today if you make a fortune, you're somehow evil, or something to be ashamed of. You become a target because you just don't diserve what you have.

It's a horrible mindset we as a country have become.

The nature of a capitalist economy is cyclical, the fact that the poor and the rich get richer at the same time doesn't prove that the poor are getting richer because the rich are. My interpretation would be the poor and the rich are both getting richer during an economic 'bubble'.  You seem to be misinterpreting the difference between correlation and causation.

Also you are building a strawman argument in my opinion, you are making out that because people believe it is fair to tax the rich more they somehow hate the rich. Progressives generally don't hate the rich or think they should be ashamed, they just think they have more and as such can afford to give more.

It's a fallacy to think that government can cause stronger economic growth then capitalism. You must agree with that. That the rich get richer in a pure capitalistic society then in less of one.

A country with no government involvement would maximize the rich getting richer. With no government oversight, human rights would be violated, so government needs to do it's job, and protect people.

But when economy explodes properly (and not contrived with the only posable outcome being failure), it's the rich exploding it, They are the cause, not a correlation.



We must be living in different countries. If anything we're seeing a cult of wealth develop again like there hasn't been since the 1880s, not a hatred of wealth like back in the 1930s (or even in the 1890s when Populism started to blunt the edge of the gilded age)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

I wish you all the happiness in the world; or rather, New Zealand.



Pixel Art can be fun.

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TheRealMafoo said:

It's a fallacy to think that government can cause stronger economic growth then capitalism. You must agree with that. That the rich get richer in a pure capitalistic society then in less of one.

A country with no government involvement would maximize the rich getting richer. With no government oversight, human rights would be violated, so government needs to do it's job, and protect people.

But when economy explodes properly (and not contrived with the only posable outcome being failure), it's the rich exploding it, They are the cause, not a correlation.

Or, to put it another way, the amount of money an individual has is (basically) the portion of the economy they have direct control over. People who are good stewards of their own personal economy see it rapidly grow and (as a result) end up "Wealthy". If your economy is set up to reward good stewardship while discouraging manipulation of the economy for personal gain the economy will grow rapidly, and everyone will be better off.  

Unfortunately, the opposite is true of the United States today; and rent-seeking manipulators (like Goldman Sachs) are rewarded while solid stewardship is discouraged.



chocoloco said:

Man, If Macain had won the election I would have left for Canada. Good luck to you.

Also if a Republican beats Obama in the next election, hello British Columbia.


I didn’t initially notice this post until it was quoted, but I think it demonstrates the core reason why the United States has fallen so far ...

As long as a candidate/elected official belongs to the "Correct" political party people have given up actually evaluating their performance; and if someone belongs to the "Wrong" political party they’re automatically discounted regardless of who they are or what they intend to do. Until Americans hold both political parties accountable, and force them both to start acting in the best interests of everyone, the special interest groups that are in control of both parties will continue to bleed the country dry.



Good luck with your move mafoo, I'm sure things will work out for you and I hope that you don't find New Zealand to be a disappointment.



Rath said:
TheRealMafoo said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

Dunno if I agree with his numbers BUT I can see where he is coming from..over the past 10 years the gap between the compensation of an employee and the executives of the company has risen by a great margin, even when the recession was going on. Has it stopped now? nope it still as bad or worse...don't really care much for communism, socialism or even democracy, the spread of wealth can and should be better than this in the USA


The issue is are the rich getting rich at the expense of the poor? No. If you look at the times in the US where the growth of the rich getting richer was the fastest, the quality of life for the poor at that time was growing the fastest as well.

They poor's quality of life was improving because the rich were getting richer, not in spite of it. Yes, the rich were improving at a faster rate, but who cares? If they help everyone why they get rich, what's the problem?

This is the issue I take with the current US mindset (as apposed to 100 years ago). People today look at someone else and say "that's not fair" instead of just looking at yourself and saying "what can I do to make my life better".

When I was a kid, you heard of other people in the world being envious of the US because it was a place you could go and make your fortune. Today if you make a fortune, you're somehow evil, or something to be ashamed of. You become a target because you just don't diserve what you have.

It's a horrible mindset we as a country have become.

The nature of a capitalist economy is cyclical, the fact that the poor and the rich get richer at the same time doesn't prove that the poor are getting richer because the rich are. My interpretation would be the poor and the rich are both getting richer during an economic 'bubble'.  You seem to be misinterpreting the difference between correlation and causation.

Also you are building a strawman argument in my opinion, you are making out that because people believe it is fair to tax the rich more they somehow hate the rich. Progressives generally don't hate the rich or think they should be ashamed, they just think they have more and as such can afford to give more.

Ah, but your statement is mis-guided.

The truth is that the rich and poor can get richer, or poorer. A study of people in poverty in the 1970's showed that an incredible 95% of those in poverty in the 1970's had improved their standing from poverty level (lowest quintile) to a better quintile. Over 40% had improved their position to the highest quintile (top 20%). Likewise, for those who were in the top 1% in 1990...50% were no longer in the top 1%.

So in the American capitalistic system, you can deride the distribution of wealth, but the truth is that those in poverty have been proven (to the tune of 95%) to have the means to change their situation, and improve. So why are people in poverty? Stupid choices.

Maybe its me, but if 95% of people in poverty today are due not to birth, but decisions...Would that not tell you the system works, as it doesn't seek to keep the rich, rich, or the poor, poor?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

You guys are all misinformed or don't grasp the reality.  Reality is the USA system is a rat race.  People are controlled by debt.  Forced to work shit jobs that barely pay a living wage. 

On to taxes being mainly paid by rich.......  Well if they were smart enough they could find plenty of loopholes in the tax system.  Why did Warren Buffet say something needs to be done to the tax system considering he pays less taxes than his secretary?  Also, when a small percentage owns over 90 percent of the wealth where do you expect the taxes to be collected from?

Wages have been suppressed for almost everyone or barely going up while the CEOs have double digit percentile gains in the past 20-30 years.  Every year you don't get a pay increase it is about the same as getting a decrease due to inflation.  USA colleges need overhaul also.  The cost to go to college is ridiculous.  Plus, most of the times the degree doesn't help one get a job now a days when you have thousands of people applying for one job.  You think they will hire the recent college grad or someone that has 10-20 plus years experience...  A lot of things need fixed in this country but I have yet to find a better one to move to.  I was thinking Canada but not too sure...  I want to be in a multi-party system.  I hate two party system.  I hate winner takes all.  Proportional representation is way better.  Electoral college can go fuck itself.  Both major parties in USA suck.  They make the people act like 5 year olds in elementary school calling each other names.  The entire political system in USA sucks.  It needs to be wiped out completely and rebuilt because it is utter shit.