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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Zelda was pushed back to refine visual style, says Shigeru Miyamoto!

theprof00 said:
jarrod said:

Majora's Mask is so structurally and thematically different from the rest of the series, I think it's safe to say you have no real idea what you're talking about.  About all it reused from OOT was the engine and controls.  I mean really, MM is about the biggest divergence the series has seen besides Zelda II (I don't count Four Swords junk).

And if you want a top down Zelda with some creativity injected, Nintendo just released two of those on DS...

Except for the mask use, ocarina use, switching through time, time based interactions, all the masks were just substitutes for items from ocarina, like zora mask for steel boots etc. they are very similar, but tone and story I think, are better.

Read my responses just above to maxwell and final fan about what I think of spirit tracks.


Switching through time?  And time based interactions?   They were no where near the same in MM to OoT.  And the masks really didn't directly replace items Zora mask allowed you to breathe under water like the Blue Tunic with steel boots did but also allowed you to do other things in the game same as the goron and deku masks you had special powers and attacks.  

The only game to directly take time based interactions directly from OoT was Oracle of Ages which was a Capcom Zelda title and they were trying to be Zelda and it felt like a Zelda that was trying to be Zelda if you get my drift, like a not as good impostor.  But to say MM was like OoT with time based interactions is kinda silly lol



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theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

Wait wait wait:  you say it's similar to OOT except for the single overriding gameplay mechanic and theme of the game

Sure thing pal. 

you mean traveling through the 3 day period?

I'm pretty sure Ocarina had several periods to go through as well. Except instead of skipping many years, it was just several hours.

yeah, completely different.

Okay now I more or less have to think (a) you're just trolling for the fuck of it or (b) you've never actually spent more than 5 minutes with Majora's Mask.

There's basically no way anyone could play both games to completion and NOT think "yeah completely different"... they ARE completely different!



theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:
Wait wait wait:  you say it's similar to OOT except for the single overriding gameplay mechanic and theme of the game

Sure thing pal.

you mean traveling through the 3 day period?

I'm pretty sure Ocarina had several periods to go through as well. Except instead of skipping many years, it was just several hours.

yeah, completely different.

In my defense your sentence was far from clear.  I thought you said:  "Except for the mask use, ocarina use, switching through time, time based interactions, //// all the masks were just substitutes for items from ocarina, like zora mask for steel boots etc. they are very similar, but tone and story I think, are better."

So I thought you had already said that MM's "time based interactions" were different from OOT. 



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Ok guys, not going to argue, it's one opinion vs another. In my post at the top I said it should have been more different. I'm not saying they are carbon copies. They just should have been more different. Perhaps you don't understand what I'm saying when I say they are OoT1,2, and 3.

Even regular sequels have completely different tones. Look at MGS 2 compared to MGS 3. Look at Mario 1 compared to 2 compared to 3 compared to world compared to 64 compared to sunshine compared to nsmb:wii compared to galaxy. They all have completely different tones and gameplay, but they are very very different from each other.

It's like the metroid prime series. They are all great games, but they are very similar. Same with recent zeldas.



OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Final-Fan said:

OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 


I second this lol 

Like It's one thing to call a game similar to another, then some claims were made that are flat out not true, I mean getting bored of the game play is an opinion saying one game is just like the other with it's mechanics just isn't right, since they change a lot of mechanics in every main installment. Though the same explore, fight with sword/various items, and puzzle solving in a general sense is what the series is known for and what it keeps from game to game.  But it's been that way with every Zelda ever.

I guess this is the best way to say it, if you're getting bored because you're bored of exploring, fighting with a sword against various enemies, and doing puzzle solving, yeah that's a just opinion just find a new series to play.  To say you're bored that every game is copying specific mechanics like time travel... that's a stretch and often just not true.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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Final-Fan said:

OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 

Except for the mask use, ocarina use, switching through time, time based interactions, all the masks were just substitutes for items from ocarina, like zora mask for steel boots etc. they are very similar, but tone and story I think, are better.

oh, yeah i screwed that up.

Similarities:

The use of masks, though to varying degrees and effect
Ocarina use, very similar degree and slightly different effects
Ocarina: move through time periods using ocarina MM: time changes according to an actual clock, ocarina used to reset time period. Also, both have a day/night cycle which can be altered with ocarina song, although slightly different way in MM.
Interactions with characters and other things change depending on when you talk to them in the time periods.
Effects of items were similar although they were different items.

 

I know Jarrod said that the tone was different because of an impending doom, but really, ocarina was like that too, MM was just better at conveying it. It feels like the designers were like, "Ok, ocarina was well liked, so how can we make it better?"



theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 

Except for the mask use, ocarina use, switching through time, time based interactions, all the masks were just substitutes for items from ocarina, like zora mask for steel boots etc. they are very similar, but tone and story I think, are better.

oh, yeah i screwed that up.

Similarities:

The use of masks, though to varying degrees and effect
Ocarina use, very similar degree and slightly different effects
Ocarina: move through time periods using ocarina MM: time changes according to an actual clock, ocarina used to reset time period. Also, both have a day/night cycle which can be altered with ocarina song, although slightly different way in MM.
Interactions with characters and other things change depending on when you talk to them in the time periods.
Effects of items were similar although they were different items.

 

I know Jarrod said that the tone was different because of an impending doom, but really, ocarina was like that too, MM was just better at conveying it. It feels like the designers were like, "Ok, ocarina was well liked, so how can we make it better?"


Wait wait wait... you're trying to compare the Suns Song in Ocarina to the time use in MM?  I thought you were trying to talk about the pulling of the master sword and traveling years into the future and then back into the past.... uhhh with the Suns Song it just made the sun go up or go down... it wasn't a major part of the game like it was with MM where it shaved off of the 3 days you had to play the game.

But like I stated before trying to state specific mechanics of various Zelda games are a bit of a stretch when they may take a cue from a previous Zelda but change it's use entirely which makes the mechanic very different...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

MaxwellGT2000 said:
Final-Fan said:

OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 


I second this lol 

Like It's one thing to call a game similar to another, then some claims were made that are flat out not true, I mean getting bored of the game play is an opinion saying one game is just like the other with it's mechanics just isn't right, since they change a lot of mechanics in every main installment. Though the same explore, fight with sword/various items, and puzzle solving in a general sense is what the series is known for and what it keeps from game to game.  But it's been that way with every Zelda ever.

I guess this is the best way to say it, if you're getting bored because you're bored of exploring, fighting with a sword against various enemies, and doing puzzle solving, yeah that's a just opinion just find a new series to play.  To say you're bored that every game is copying specific mechanics like time travel... that's a stretch and often just not true.

That's not what I meant to say. The mechanics were different, but still similar.

This is all I'm saying:

The difference between Zelda and Link and LttP > the difference between OoT, MM, TP



MaxwellGT2000 said:
theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 

Except for the mask use, ocarina use, switching through time, time based interactions, all the masks were just substitutes for items from ocarina, like zora mask for steel boots etc. they are very similar, but tone and story I think, are better.

oh, yeah i screwed that up.

Similarities:

The use of masks, though to varying degrees and effect
Ocarina use, very similar degree and slightly different effects
Ocarina: move through time periods using ocarina MM: time changes according to an actual clock, ocarina used to reset time period. Also, both have a day/night cycle which can be altered with ocarina song, although slightly different way in MM.
Interactions with characters and other things change depending on when you talk to them in the time periods.
Effects of items were similar although they were different items.

 

I know Jarrod said that the tone was different because of an impending doom, but really, ocarina was like that too, MM was just better at conveying it. It feels like the designers were like, "Ok, ocarina was well liked, so how can we make it better?"


Wait wait wait... you're trying to compare the Suns Song in Ocarina to the time use in MM?  I thought you were trying to talk about the pulling of the master sword and traveling years into the future and then back into the past.... uhhh with the Suns Song it just made the sun go up or go down... it wasn't a major part of the game like it was with MM where it shaved off of the 3 days you had to play the game.

But like I stated before trying to state specific mechanics of various Zelda games are a bit of a stretch when they may take a cue from a previous Zelda but change it's use entirely which makes the mechanic very different...

It's not that it's completely different. It's just improved in scope. Like I said, "how can we make it better". In MM it has more connection to the storyline, but think about explaining to people the novelty of it. WHen moving from LttP to Ocarina it's like, "Now you can have different experiences depending on the time of day and in what age". When moving from ocarina to MM it's like, "Now you can have different experiences depending on the day."

It's not very different, i think.