By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Zelda was pushed back to refine visual style, says Shigeru Miyamoto!

The proof, out of curiosity... how a new Zelda would be good to you?

What would you maintain in the series too.



Around the Network
theprof00 said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Final-Fan said:

OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 


I second this lol 

Like It's one thing to call a game similar to another, then some claims were made that are flat out not true, I mean getting bored of the game play is an opinion saying one game is just like the other with it's mechanics just isn't right, since they change a lot of mechanics in every main installment. Though the same explore, fight with sword/various items, and puzzle solving in a general sense is what the series is known for and what it keeps from game to game.  But it's been that way with every Zelda ever.

I guess this is the best way to say it, if you're getting bored because you're bored of exploring, fighting with a sword against various enemies, and doing puzzle solving, yeah that's a just opinion just find a new series to play.  To say you're bored that every game is copying specific mechanics like time travel... that's a stretch and often just not true.

That's not what I meant to say. The mechanics were different, but still similar.

This is all I'm saying:

The difference between Zelda and Link and LttP > the difference between OoT, MM, TP


Uh Zelda II is the only one different... LoZ and LttP is really similar, both top down, both about exploring, both using items to access new areas and secrets, to make it through dungeons.

And man... OoT IS LttP... OoT find three pendants to get the master sword, LttP find three pendants to get the master sword, OoT you advance seven years and wake up in a darker world with more dangerous enemies and Ganon rules, LttP you find the dark world with more dangerous enemies and Ganon rules, OoT you have to get the six sages' medallions so you can fight Ganon, LttP you have to save the six descendants of the wise men so you can fight Ganon, OoT there's a relation between the times so you can do something in the past that affects the future time, LttP there's a relation to the light and dark worlds so some things you do in the dark world affect those in the light world.

I could go on but it's just a lot more simple to say OoT was LttP just properly translated into 3D unlike so many other 2D series being translated into 3D at the time.  I could go on and on about the differences between OoT and MM, TWW, and TP though...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

OK prof but just one thing:  what would your sentence have looked like if it was grammatically correct?  I want to know what you were trying to communicate. 

Except for the mask use, ocarina use, switching through time, time based interactions, all the masks were just substitutes for items from ocarina, like zora mask for steel boots etc. they are very similar, but tone and story I think, are better.

oh, yeah i screwed that up.

Similarities:

The use of masks, though to varying degrees and effect
Ocarina use, very similar degree and slightly different effects
Ocarina: move through time periods using ocarina MM: time changes according to an actual clock, ocarina used to reset time period. Also, both have a day/night cycle which can be altered with ocarina song, although slightly different way in MM.
Interactions with characters and other things change depending on when you talk to them in the time periods.
Effects of items were similar although they were different items.

 

I know Jarrod said that the tone was different because of an impending doom, but really, ocarina was like that too, MM was just better at conveying it. It feels like the designers were like, "Ok, ocarina was well liked, so how can we make it better?"

I'm sorry but no.  Your list of "similarities" is superficial at best, and should you actually delve into the implementations, mechanics and structure of the comparable "masks" or "time" or even NPC interaction, you'll find that they're worlds apart and completely different in function.  OOT and ALTTP actually have more in common than OOT and MM do, MM is about the largest departure the series has ever taken (second only to Zelda II imo).  That may obfuscated by the recycled engine, but the actual game isn't "OOT-2", it's really "anti-OOT".

I would actually say Majora's Mask has a lot in common with say Yoshi's Island or Metroid Fusion.  They're all "dark horses" for their franchises, and pretty dramatic and daring departures that I'd personally say worked out spectacularly.  And to some degree, series purists tend to not like them.



ok let's all agree to disagree.

I thought they were similar in the amount of stuff and ideas that were recycled or improved. You're all right that OoT and LttP are more similar, but to me that entire line since LttP is similar except for the move to 3d with OoT, and WW being more pirate-y.

It's hard for me to describe what constitues similarity when you guys are so set in your own opinions. I remember them being similar. What I see as similar, you see as different. And what I see as different, you see as similar. It seems like this is just a disagreement. Perhaps we have different value sets.

It seems like the ones you think are most similar are ones with similar storylines, whereas the ones I see similar are ones with similar control and activities etc.



theprof00 said:

ok let's all agree to disagree.

I thought they were similar in the amount of stuff and ideas that were recycled or improved. You're all right that OoT and LttP are more similar, but to me that entire line since LttP is similar except for the move to 3d with OoT, and WW being more pirate-y.

It's hard for me to describe what constitues similarity when you guys are so set in your own opinions. I remember them being similar. What I see as similar, you see as different. And what I see as different, you see as similar. It seems like this is just a disagreement. Perhaps we have different value sets.

It seems like the ones you think are most similar are ones with similar storylines, whereas the ones I see similar are ones with similar control and activities etc.


No that's really not what anyone is saying at all lol mostly everyone is pointing out the different game play mechanics and how they specifically work and why they aren't the same and change up the fundamental game play as a whole.  It's more you're generalizing specifics when they're different and more or less seems you're just tired of the series though you really don't seem to put forth the knowledge of the mechanics that you claim are so similar... which is why everyone is going into detailed debate with you... it's not because we disagree but because it's wrong Sun's Song OoT does not have the same repercussions and effect as much as it does in MM, which is the only time mechanic you mentioned... 



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Around the Network

I would say...

OOT to MM:  consistent style, change in substance

OOT to TWW: change in style, consistent substance

OOT to TP: consistent style, consistent substance



MaxwellGT2000 said:
theprof00 said:

ok let's all agree to disagree.

I thought they were similar in the amount of stuff and ideas that were recycled or improved. You're all right that OoT and LttP are more similar, but to me that entire line since LttP is similar except for the move to 3d with OoT, and WW being more pirate-y.

It's hard for me to describe what constitues similarity when you guys are so set in your own opinions. I remember them being similar. What I see as similar, you see as different. And what I see as different, you see as similar. It seems like this is just a disagreement. Perhaps we have different value sets.

It seems like the ones you think are most similar are ones with similar storylines, whereas the ones I see similar are ones with similar control and activities etc.


No that's really not what anyone is saying at all lol mostly everyone is pointing out the different game play mechanics and how they specifically work and why they aren't the same and change up the fundamental game play as a whole.  It's more you're generalizing specifics when they're different and more or less seems you're just tired of the series though you really don't seem to put forth the knowledge of the mechanics that you claim are so similar... which is why everyone is going into detailed debate with you... it's not because we disagree but because it's wrong Sun's Song OoT does not have the same repercussions and effect as much as it does in MM, which is the only time mechanic you mentioned... 

I mentioned earlier to khuutra that talking about specifics would be a waste of time because you guys are all huge fans and know every little idiosyncracy of each game. Shit, I'm sure half of you have a strong idea on what the timeline is. I'm not like that. I've played each 3-4 times, but generally while they were still new games.



theprof00 said:

I mentioned earlier to khuutra that talking about specifics would be a waste of time because you guys are all huge fans and know every little idiosyncracy of each game. Shit, I'm sure half of you have a strong idea on what the timeline is. I'm not like that. I've played each 3-4 times, but generally while they were still new games.


No I just retain knowledge of details really well because that's how my brain works, honestly I didn't even get to play MM till I had the Gamecube Zelda collection, and didn't get to finish due to the copy of my game burned up in my house fire.  But with my play though I had all the masks and right at the end so I had all the mechanics down pat, cause hell you had to know them to even get half the masks in that game.

LttP I play to death because it's one of the best games of all time I don't play OoT anymore, I'd like to play through TWW for a second time eventually but my old copy went the way of my collection.  Twilight Princess I wish they would release a master quest version and I'd love to play that game again, it really was a perfected OoT in the sense of controls and mechanics but with that you also lacked the bit of clunkyness with the controls that made the N64 games a bit harder to play and it made the bosses way too easy in comparison, so a hard version would be welcomed haha.

But MM, TWW, and TP I've only played to completion once.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

MaxwellGT2000 said:
theprof00 said:

I mentioned earlier to khuutra that talking about specifics would be a waste of time because you guys are all huge fans and know every little idiosyncracy of each game. Shit, I'm sure half of you have a strong idea on what the timeline is. I'm not like that. I've played each 3-4 times, but generally while they were still new games.


No I just retain knowledge of details really well because that's how my brain works, honestly I didn't even get to play MM till I had the Gamecube Zelda collection, and didn't get to finish due to the copy of my game burned up in my house fire.  But with my play though I had all the masks and right at the end so I had all the mechanics down pat, cause hell you had to know them to even get half the masks in that game.

LttP I play to death because it's one of the best games of all time I don't play OoT anymore, I'd like to play through TWW for a second time eventually but my old copy went the way of my collection.  Twilight Princess I wish they would release a master quest version and I'd love to play that game again, it really was a perfected OoT in the sense of controls and mechanics but with that you also lacked the bit of clunkyness with the controls that made the N64 games a bit harder to play and it made the bosses way too easy in comparison, so a hard version would be welcomed haha.

Me and khuutra were talking about that. I've never finished WW, and played very little of TP because I thought it was just too similar and it upset me. Also, I didn't have my wii anymore at that time, and my gfs sister (whom I donated my wii to) is obsessed with party games so nobody can play wii unless everyone plays. (I recently bought her that sea exploration game that twroo is obsessed with as a random gift and she said it was wierd. Simply infuriating.) but i digress...

But my friend is selling his wii for like 75 bones, so I might pick it up...especially after this past e3, and maybe i'll give TP another chance. Yaknow, I really thought TP was different, but it just upset me that it wasn't different enough. I dunno...I expect a lot from zelda because the first two were the first games I ever owned.



Cactus said:
AlkamistStar said:

I'm not a fan of the art style at all, i've grown up with Nintendo because of Zelda, and Metroid mainly (could care less for Mario after Mario 64). I would've loved to see a mature art style. Zelda at it's root is a dark story line, and this art style just dumbs it down for kids. I'm in no way doubting the game though, i'm sure the story will be awesome, and the gameplay unique as it always is, but it's just not an impactful series to me now that i'm older and have seen the games get more "kiddie".

Bottom line, i wish Nintendo (or better yet Shigeru Miyamoto) allowed Zelda to grow along with it's fans. When i first picked up Zelda i was about 6 years old, im 24 this year and the series hasn't seemed to change, or "grow" with me, it's the same gig with a different top.

To be fair, you know absolutely nothing about the game other than its art style and control method. For all you know the game might be a different experience from past Zelda games.

To be fair, maybe you just have bad reading comprehension, so i've taken the liberty of bolding key areas of my previous post, so you can clearly understand the overall point i made was in regards to the art style, not the gameplay.



Follow Me: twitter.com/alkamiststar

Watch Me: youtube.com/alkamiststar

Play Along: XBL & SEN : AlkamistStar