If you had read the thread, you would have seen where I said I didn't realize the timing, apologized for bringing it up. and said to disregard the OP.

It's called realizing you were wrong. You should try it sometime.

Oh, and that's not the thread he is talking about. 

It is the exact same thing. You said no one mildly intelligent would not think GTA4 is automatically better than SMG based on review scores because they appeal to different crowds. You have posted something that completely contradicts that notion. If there was an out pouring of topics about how OoT was better than GTA4 then I missed it, but fully expected it to happen. As a result I just avoided threads where it was likely to turn into that, and missed any threads about it. I would have jumped right on them if any of them were dumb enough to point out how they should not be doing exactly what they have done. You compared two games across genres and claimed one was definitevly better than the other. Admit your mistake and move on.

And you might want to read my first post in this thread. It was something like "I was hoping to tear into a fanboy idiot but here you have a well constucted arguement." I did jump on someone else who posted exactly what everyone thinks Grey posted just last night to get it out of my system. In that thread I actually attacked SMG as being over-hyped and not very fun. Of course maybe you weren't trying to direct that at me.

I'm glad you were able to see that you were wrong there, and commend you for it. So why can't you realize you're wrong here?

Your immediate reaction to that review was that it was an attempt to discredit GTA IV. There was no reason for that assumption other than a somewhat similar timeframe and the number 10 mentioned. You're doing the same thing here, but you don't have any date that clearly shows proof that you were wrong. In this thread, I've constantly addressed your complaints, and other people have as well, yet you still cling to the idea that this is all some covertly organized plot to defame GTA IV.

Even IF I was actually bashing GTA IV, what are you accomplishing here? You aren't getting this thread locked. Montana already locked it but rescinded that decision. All you're doing is making yourself look bad and keeping this thread in the hot topic section for more people to see as well as inflating its post count with your accusations and my rebuttals of them. If only for your own sake, stop posting, you're beating your head against a wall trying to prove that its a door and all you're doing is getting the wall dirty.

I was not directing anything at you. I don't recall ever reading your posts. We must post in different forms most of the time. And it's not the same thing. I have played OoT, and I have played GTA4. The point of my post was to say that if all gamed were revisited, and rated on todays rating system, 100 games (including GTA4) would get a better rating then OoT. That by todays standards for ratings. Game length, Graphics, Complexity, Story.... todays games are better. I got flamed.

I  was 29 when OoT came out, and a PC gamer. There was nothing in that game I had not seen before. It was a great game, but nothing special for me. I forgot that most people on these forums where in the young teens, and that OoT brought what I had been playing as a PC gamer to a much larger market, so bashing there god of games was probably not a good idea.

Anyway, back on point. What I am saying above is that I played them and formed an opinion based on that. The quote from this thread that you are equating it to is saying that people don't strictly base opinions of games based on reviews. They take many other things into consideration.

Those are completely different things.

Honestly, OoT is completely over rated. I liked it better the first time I played it. Of course it was on the SNES then, and Link had pink hair for some strange reason. I think Wind Waker was the best one. I even think Twilight Princess is better, and I don't think it was anything special. Thats not the point I am making though.

You keep harping on this silly notion that a game must automatically be better because it was released later. Further you are putting forth this idea while comparing two different genres. OoT might not score as high today if it were just released, but that still wouldn't make GTA4 a better game. As you just said, review scores cannot be applied blindly across genres.

An no, todays games are not automatically better because they are longer and more complex. Superman 64 was worse than Super Mario Brothers. I can say this even though they are different genres because of how god awful Superman 64 really was. You are over simplifying everything way too much and thats why you got flamed. Some games age very well, and would be just as good today if you gave them a graphical update. The industry really hasn't moved forward that much. Counter Strike is a shining example of that.

You said GTA4 was strictly better than OoT, and then said games will appeal more to different people based on personal preference. Those are contradictory thoughts. You cannot reconcile saying one game is strictly better than another with a notion that people need to evaluate games based on genre.

Sigh... we must not speak the same language or something. Point to where I said you discredit GTA4. I never said you have. Also, you can bash GTA all you want and not get locked. You make it sound like I care what you think about GTA4. I don't care what you, or anyone else thinks about GTA4, and at no point in this thread have I said anything that comes close to conveying that I do. What the hell difference does it make to me what games you or anyone else likes?

My comments have never been about GTA, or what you think about that game. Not a single time. My comments have been about you. You have an opinion about games, and obviously there are games that rate very high, that are considered more desirable then the ones you hold in high regard, and you don't like it. In fact, you dislike it so much, it leads you to start this massive thread to, more then once now, insult the people who think differently then you.

Your disregard for other gamers opinions (enough to even call them stupid), and calling an entire group of people in a state of desperation is offensive, and also very funny when in fact, the only person in this thread who is looking desperate is you.

That's what I have been saying this entire time. When I asked for this thread to be locked, it was your offensive nature to others, not your opinion of a game.

And trust me, I am not wrong here ;)

You know what? You're right. You haven't been defending the game; I was giving you too much credit in assuming you actually had some justification for your posts.

All you've been doing is attacking everything else including Wii sports(you know, when you called the game shallow), Brawl, Ocarina of Time, Nintendo fans, Wii fans, anyone that wants to see ratings that are actually useful when trying to find games in their interest(YOU were teh first one to start tossing "stupid" around to describe people), and apparently anyone who actually doesn't feel that GTA deserves a 10 or even questions it or even seems like they're questioning it.

Oh no! I'm questioning the viewpoints of your sacred reviewers, just like I've always done in many threads before, it must be because I'm trolling GTA IV! Lock lock lock!

Way to respond to a thread saying your offensive, by being incredible offensive. To bad everything you said is wrong. I don't think I have ever called Wii sports anything. I have never commented on Wii sports, not that I can remember anyway. I have Wii sports, and I play it all the time.

I said your review system would only cater to the stupid. Everyone I know, and probably everyone you know, gets the information they need to make an accurately informed buying decision with the current review structure.

You called anyone who would use GTA4's reviews to mean Wii games are overrated, stupid. While I would have a conversion with them to try and convince them that Wii games are not overrated, or if they are a GTA4 review has no relevance when trying to prove something, I would not call them stupid.

And I don't find reviewers sacred, in fact quite the opposite. No one can tell me how fun a game is going to be. Not IGN, and not you. All they can do is tell me how fun it was for them, and I will decide what I buy, and what's fun for me.

You are the one with some major hang up with reviews. Also your posts have gotten a lot more heated, and you seem to be changing your tone a little. You seem to be demonstrating desperation. Are you sure you are not a member of the HD userbase?

I'm putting the smackdown on GTA threads. I'm tired of these eating up every bit of the forum, and especially when half of them are flamebait. You may have had meaningful content Grey, but that's not the way to express it. Try to make your point without attacking the opinions of others.

I would have let this thread stay open, but it's degraded into nothing but an argument. Both you and TheRealMafoo need to chill out.