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Forums - Gaming Discussion - GTA IV demonstrates HD console userbase desperation

[EDIT]

Just to clarify things for people who are taking offense from the title; Desperation is NOT an insult. I am not stating that GTA IV shows that all fans of the game are desperate, but that the game brings into focus those cases of a desperate attitude that exists within the HD console community.

At no point do I even express the OPINION that GTA IV is a bad game, and I certainly don't attempt to claim this as a fact. When I compare GTA IV to Brawl, I am NOT comparing the games, I am comparing the CONTENT and PROBLEMS RAISED in the REVIEWS of these games, and then contrasting the FOCUS and RATING of these games.

[end of edit]

Okay, now before before we get into the thick of things, this is not a thread to bash GTA IV, in fact, it's not even about GTA IV at all. This thread is mean to be an introspective analysis of the reaction of gaming community around this game; a mental exercise.
To start, I haven't played this game, or any of the GTA games for that matter. The concept alone just isn't of any interest to me. If you find anything blatantly incorrect about my perceptions, feel free to just point them out politely, cause I have no reservations about my knowledge of the game itself, but merely of the reactions I have seen from people who have played it.

There are two aspects of the issues surrounding this game that I will get into; the reactions of reviewers and the (possible) "unwarranted 10" effect, and then the PS3 vs 360 effect.

 

The reviewer reaction is interesting, in that it shows a very distinct difference in the way Nintendo and other developers are judged. Brawl is a beautiful game yet was knocked down in score for being "much of the same as melee" and "backgrounds that lacked detail" and this was despite Brawl having added a huge single player mode, tons of collectibles and achievements, as well as an increased and rebalanced character lineup in which even clones have distinctly different play styles.
Comparatively, from what I've heard, GTAIV is much the same as GTA III, but with improved story and enhanced visuals, yet still has issues such as aggravating pop in and difficult vehicle handling. I can't confirm myself if these issues are as significant as some claim, but if reality is even close to as claimed, then this should still warrant at least a -.1 from the 10.0 score. EDIT: This would still leave the game at 9.9, this statement is not contesting the quality of the game, but comparing similar review content statements with differing review scores.

Ordinarily, one could chalk this up to merely a game preference or even company preference, and some have even speculated on company payoffs, but taking a look at the history that Wii and game reviewers have had leaves me to speculate on issues that are on a far greater scale.
Nintendo has shaken up the gaming community at the most basic foundation of the audience demographic, how games are played and developed, and also how they need to be reviewed. Not all of the gaming community has been ready for this change of pace and direction. The most heavily affected by this are the ones most deeply steeped in these traditional games. Internet reviews of games have only really come into play since Playstation first managed to displace Nintendo as the dominant console, and many reviewers have made their living from documenting the steady and standard method of improvement that games have made during that period.

But then Nintendo comes along and introduces the Wii. Rating and sales rate are no longer tied together so closely. In fact, much of Wii's core audience doesn't even know reviews are there. If Wii becomes a dominant console rivaling that of PS2, then review sites could very well become completely superfluous.
So what are these review sites to do? Their core audience is now not the only audience. There are new people coming into the water park, and as it turns out, you can't review the lazy river the same way that you review thunder run. Review sites now have a "hardcore" and a "casual" audience to deal with, and to make matters worse, they know as little about this casual audience as the casual audience knows about them.
The only real choice is to continue to focus on their hardcore audience. Trying to focus on the casual audience would only be effective if the majority of the casual audience realized and cared they existed, and in the meantime their hardcore audience is left to feel neglected.
But what really makes things difficult for reviewers is a step beyond that. The advancements that non-HD(AKA: Wii) games are making are subtle and require a period of adjustment where traditional players can no longer fall back on ingrained button mashing reflexes, but must learn anew the quirks and mental frame required.
Rather than being able to immediately see the improvements based on graphical quality and being able to use their own learning curve as a judge for control setup, reviewers would now need to take much more time to explore and get a knack for the gameplay. Professional reviewers do not have the luxury to sit back for a month, but must make immediate assessments of of its production value.

So ultimately what this all sums up to, is that reviewers are ill equipped on every level to review non-HD games. They do not have the understanding of the new audience, nor do they have the time needed to notice teh ways in which non-HD games are improving. I believe this has resulted in an unrecognized fear of these types of games, and the response has been to rally around those games which advance gameplay in familiar and recognizable aspects to the game review community.

 

 

Okay, whew, that was long, and we're only halfway through. Lets take a moment to stretch. Lean back and close your eyes for a moment to prevent strain and headaches. Grab a bite to eat while the second half loads. or maybe you skipped that stuff up above cause you wanted to know the deal about the PS3 vs 360.

 

 

GTA IV also demonstrates the desperation of the PS3 and 360 fan, 90%(numerical estimate excavated from my anus) of topics in any forum on the game have consisted of either "GTA IV is the Wii killer" or "This game demonstrates just how superior PS3/360 is to the 360/PS3" Does anyone actually enjoy the game? Instead the HD console crowd has been doing everything they can to demonstrate the advantaged of their console of choice.
For a solid year an a half, Wii has maintained its dominance of the market, to the point that Wii has essentially been given a pass for 1st place and PS3 and 360 are left to duke it out for 1st place in the HD console category(AKA 2nd place) but neither the PS3 or 360 has yet to claim that position. To put more pressure on the fans of these systems, this isn't just a battle to come in 2nd, this is a battle to not come in last. If they remain in such a deadlock, the simplified view will be that both consoles came in last place.
360 is the king of America as of yet, but PS3 has claimed Japan's HD gaming market and is on the way to do the same for Europe. As it stands, unless one console or the other can clearly demonstrate its technical superiority over the other, then the best choice for game developers will be to create ports that work on both systems, and don't take full advantage of the hardware of either. This will continually result in games that look the same on both systems which will continue the vicious cycle of the consoles not getting any preference of game developers.

Wii has already differentiated itself from the crowd and has now left the pressure on 360 and PS3 to differentiate themselves from each other. Until then, the advantages that one of those consoles may possess will be buried under the weaknesses of the other. This is basically a similar problem to what the Wii is facing with PS2 ports, except that on those ports that have been done properly, the Wii has been able to demonstrate its superior control style, of which Okami and RE4 have been great examples. PS3 and 360 have not yet been able to demonstrate such a clear advantage, which has resulted in a certain level of desperation in the fans of these two systems.

 

So discuss. Has anyone else noticed this phenomena, or is it just a bias caused by my preference of the Wii? Just to clarify, I at no point claimed that GTA IV is not a good game. I literally do not know. I haven't followed it, nor any game in the series, nor have ever claimed to. My assessment of desperation does not hinge on the idea that GTA IV is even overhyped, but that the type of response it has gotten has carried tones of NEEDING it to be a perfect game.



Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!

Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

<- Click to see more of her

 

One question I think is worth asking when it comes to reviews is whether or not you can really have a numerical value that can adequately be used to compare the quality of two games in a medium as diverse as gaming ... How can you adequately compare Tetris with Grand Theft Auto with only using numbers?



Well, that's basically where it comes from when I say that review sites are ill equipped to deal with these diverse gaming styles.
about the closest thing I could come up with off the top of my head is to have a color attached which represents what style of game it is, and then the review scores are based off of that game style alone.
The only other thing I could think of is to develop categories to judge games on a casual level. The to create 3 numbers from that which represent a casual review a hardcre review and then the average of the two reviews.



Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!

Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

<- Click to see more of her

 

Since the Wii has graphical limitations, they should rate it based on the skills of the systems (like the GBA/DS) instead of saying whether the PS3/360 version looks better. Also, the PS3/360 technical identity crisis is rearing its ugly head when every PS360 game review must state which version looks better or loads 1 second faster. Its not fair foe either system to be untapped in potential and just get a general release.

Side Note: Half the kids I know can't set up their PS3 or 360 to HD settings. Too lazy to read the manual perhaps?



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

I was all set to tear into you for being a raving Wii fanboy and then I see a long and well written post. Now who am I supposed to mock endlessly?

Seriously though I think your claims are slightly over reaching. Only the most hardcore of the already hardcore fanbase are claiming that GTA4 will kill the Wii. thos particular people are becoming increasingly desperate in the face of the Wii's unstoppable success. The average HD console owner probably couldn't care less though. Anyone who is on internet message boards who is not a fanboy won't care either. Hopefully this will be the last time people make a huge hooplah over a game killing the Wii.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

HappySqurriel said:

One question I think is worth asking when it comes to reviews is whether or not you can really have a numerical value that can adequately be used to compare the quality of two games in a medium as diverse as gaming ... How can you adequately compare Tetris with Grand Theft Auto with only using numbers?


 That's easy.  Tetris (as a series) gets a 10 and GTA (as a series) gets a 9.



Grey Acumen said:


    For a solid year an a half, Wii has maintained its dominance of the market, to the point that Wii has essentially been given a pass for 1st place and PS3 and 360 are left to duke it out for 1st place in the HD console category(AKA 2nd place) but neither the PS3 or 360 has yet to claim that position. To put more pressure on the fans of these systems, this isn't just a battle to come in 2nd, this is a battle to not come in last. If they remain in such a deadlock, the simplified view will be that both consoles came in last place.
    360 is the king of America as of yet, but PS3 has claimed Japan's HD gaming market and is on the way to do the same for Europe. As it stands, unless one console or the other can clearly demonstrate its technical superiority over the other, then the best choice for game developers will be to create ports that work on both systems, and don't take full advantage of the hardware of either. This will continually result in games that look the same on both systems which will continue the vicious cycle of the consoles not getting any preference of game developers.

 
I loved this argument in particular.  Great stuff.  Can't really argue it.  They're set to tie for last like the GC and XBox did.  This industry hasn't had room for 2nd place since Sega died.  There's the world of exclusives and win and the world of shared resources.

More bitter Nintendo fanboys bitching about the love GTA IV is getting.



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

ckmlb said:
More bitter Nintendo fanboys bitching about the love GTA IV is getting.

I would recomend you try reading the post before commenting on it. There is nothing bitching about GTA4s praise at all. There is a lot commenting on the reaction internet message boards have had to GTA4.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Gnizmo said:
ckmlb said:
More bitter Nintendo fanboys bitching about the love GTA IV is getting.

I would recomend you try reading the post before commenting on it. There is nothing bitching about GTA4s praise at all. There is a lot commenting on the reaction internet message boards have had to GTA4.


Questioning the validity of the reviews is not bitching about the praise? Even the thread title itself is filled with arrogant BS, HD console userbase desperation?

Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!