Quantcast
What do you want in a Switch 2?

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What do you want in a Switch 2?

SwitchUP said:
Nu-13 said:

My, I can't even begin here. For starters, we're talking about something coming 3 years from now. Today's technology being irrelevant. A system like the switch could have released last month while already being more powerful than a ps4. And no, the gap between the switch and ps4 isn't 3-4x, more like 2-2.25.

What chipset is that? I'm genuinely asking.  I dont keep up on those things much. That's pretty crazy for a portable chipset to be equal to or above a ps4 in power, and awesome. But I imagine that it would be far too expensive to put into a Nintendo handheld. Hopefully in 3 years though....

The chipset doesn't exist because it wasn't released yet. Nintendo will use tech released in between 2020 and 2021. There's nothing crazy about a switch 2 being a lot more powerful than a ps4 just like there's nothing crazy about the switch being a lot more powerful than the ps3.

SuperNova said:
Nu-13 said:

My, I can't even begin here. For starters, we're talking about something coming 3 years from now. Today's technology being irrelevant. A system like the switch could have released last month while already being more powerful than a ps4. And no, the gap between the switch and ps4 isn't 3-4x, more like 2-2.25.

Seeing that the A12x in the 2018 IPad Pro is the only chip on the market that even comes close to your claim (and not that close either, it has Xbox One S like performance according to apple) and the cheapest device it‘s in goes for 800$+, what you‘re saying is pretty outlandish.

Also todays technology is extremely relevant to a product coming out 2-3 years from now, seeing that the tegra x1 is a 2015 chip in a 2017 product. And even then it was only really cost effective to use it in the Switch since it was somewhat of a dead end for Nvidia, who pivoted away from gaming applications with the successor chips hard. Nvidia had stock to clear and Nintendo got a good deal.

It‘s fair to assume that Nvidia is working on something more custom and for Nintendos next console, and they’re probably going to make sure that it has the most current architecture, but it‘s not going to be some monster, top of the line chip if they want to have any chance of maintaining a 300$ pricepoint.

The tegra x2 all the way from 2015 is already on par or better than the xbox one gpu. And are you seriously using overpriced phones for an argument? The switch was going to release in 2016 with a 2015 chip that was high end. My expectations are the same for the switch 2: a 2022 release using a high end 2021 mobile gpu and proportional advances in ram + cpu.

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Nu-13 said:

My, I can't even begin here. For starters, we're talking about something coming 3 years from now. Today's technology being irrelevant. A system like the switch could have released last month while already being more powerful than a ps4. And no, the gap between the switch and ps4 isn't 3-4x, more like 2-2.25.

Even in 5 years that won't be possible without having less than 1 hour of battery life or a handheld that weights a ton. Maybe by 2028 or so they could do so effectively, but with Moore's Law looming ahead, I have my doubts.

Also, Nintendo by far and large prefers using proven technology rather than the newest non-plus-ultra bleeding edge tech. In 3 years Nintendo will be using today's technology as far as computing hardware goes.

Switch can reach about 400 GFlops docked and 240 GFlops undocked. Even just the XBO S is over 3x in terms of raw performance compared to docked Switch, PS4 even almost 5x as powerful. Even the beefiest Smartphone chips can't reach that yet, Snapdragon 855+ stands at around 1000 GFlops - and if you game on those something that fully uses the power, either their battery is sucked empty in short notice or the chips are downclocked to save battery, at cost of lowered performance.

Finally, despite the rather weak performance compared to the consoles, the main gripe players had was not performance, but battery life. Hence why Nintendo used the new chip from NVidia not to enhance performance, but battery life.

In short, if by 2024 a successor to the Switch will come out (I don't expect one earlier unless Switch sales start to tank like those of the Wii) and will still be a hybrid console like the Switch, it will probably be much closer to XBO S performance and not come anywhere near XBO X.

The switch already proves you wrong because nintendo went for the best they could get  while breaking even or having a small profit per unit at $299. It used a 2015 gpu with a release scheduled for 2016.

FLOPS =/= PERFORMANCE. If you're going to use just flops, you should first make an "exchange rate" of up to 2:1 because nvidea gpus tend to perform similarly to amd gpus with a lot more flops. In your language, it's like those 400 gflops on switch are equal to 700-800 when compared to the other amd gpus. Tegra volta already has like 1.3 tflops. Several years later and with a 7/8nm shrink, it should be very easy for nvidea to deliver a 3-3.2 tflop mobile gpu in 2021. That would already match or be close to the raw performance of xb1x gpu.

That's like saying in 2013 that a $299 mobile hardware in 2016 would barely surpass an x360 but the switch is here to prove that wrong. The ps4 and x1 are 2013 consoles using 2012 tech. We're talking about a 9 year technological gap that actually favors mobile tech (it's obviously gonna stay bellow non mobile but the gap is smaller). The switch 2 will be obviously superior than those consoles in every aspect and the only thing that might be close is portable mode gpu power. There's nothing surprising about that, it's just how technology works.



SwitchUP said:
Slownenberg said:

You don't understand why people compare the power of different systems? Why don't you understand that? Seems pretty natural to compare the power of different systems. Why can a portable system not be as powerful as a home console? Pretty sure Switch is more powerful than every home console ever made other than PS4 and XboxOne. Obviously portable systems can be as powerful as older home consoles. Portables don't exist as some inferior technology that can never be as powerful as any home console.

I can agree that Switch 2 doesn't necessarily need a screen upgrade, I mean do you REALLY need more than 720p on that small of a screen? Probably not. I think certainly at like 1080p on that size there is no reason to ever go above that. I just feel like lots of people will complain if the screen doesn't get upgraded to 1080p like 6 years later. If its a cost matter I'd certainly rather get a little more power rather than an upgraded screen. I think it should do 4k in docked mode though cuz by then 4k will probably be fairly standard for new TVs.

Interesting idea about different joycon splits, though because the joycons have to split into two separate controllers I feel like the current SNES-style design is the only one that really works. Like a gamecube joycon split wouldn't work at all when you actually split them.

You dont understand what I said. I didnt say anything about not understanding why people compare systems. I said, I dont understand why people expect portable hardware to match things like the ps4 pro. Nothing portable is even close to the pro. Not even close.

Portable hardware does exist on another level entirely. They will always be inferior because they can only get so much performance from a chip without killing a battery in 5 minutes. 

 People should keep their expectations of mobile chips in reality. Unless you know something I dont, the next switch wont be equal to a ps4 pro... not even in 2023. Even the most expensive devices cant match the xbox 1 fat. 

No, what you said is you don't understand why people think a portable system can match x console, meaning any other console. Obviously portable systems advance the same way home systems do. There is no reason why a portable system can't match the power of "x" system, depending on what the two systems are. Switch exceeds the power of 360 and PS3, having come out a decade later, it's reasonable to expect a system coming out 10 years after One/PS4 to exceed those. Maybe it won't match the later upgraded versions of those systems, but it should at least be somewhere in between the power of PS4 and PS4 Pro. We're not talking about a portable system matching a current home system, we're talking about a portable system matching the power of home consoles from 6 to 10 years ago, which the Switch already does.

If Nintendo saves money by not designing a completely brand new system, but instead does a straight upgrade to the Switch with just a few tweaks beyond the obvious technical upgrades, that saves them a lot of money in the R&D stage, so assuming they can get enough battery power in there, it is certainly within expectations that Switch 2 could at least be close to matching PS4 Pro performance when docked. Maybe it could be PS4 base level in portable mode and close to PS4 Pro when docked, something like that seems fairly reasonable for 2023.



Slownenberg said:
SwitchUP said:

You dont understand what I said. I didnt say anything about not understanding why people compare systems. I said, I dont understand why people expect portable hardware to match things like the ps4 pro. Nothing portable is even close to the pro. Not even close.

Portable hardware does exist on another level entirely. They will always be inferior because they can only get so much performance from a chip without killing a battery in 5 minutes. 

 People should keep their expectations of mobile chips in reality. Unless you know something I dont, the next switch wont be equal to a ps4 pro... not even in 2023. Even the most expensive devices cant match the xbox 1 fat. 

No, what you said is you don't understand why people think a portable system can match x console, meaning any other console. Obviously portable systems advance the same way home systems do. There is no reason why a portable system can't match the power of "x" system, depending on what the two systems are. Switch exceeds the power of 360 and PS3, having come out a decade later, it's reasonable to expect a system coming out 10 years after One/PS4 to exceed those. Maybe it won't match the later upgraded versions of those systems, but it should at least be somewhere in between the power of PS4 and PS4 Pro. We're not talking about a portable system matching a current home system, we're talking about a portable system matching the power of home consoles from 6 to 10 years ago, which the Switch already does.

If Nintendo saves money by not designing a completely brand new system, but instead does a straight upgrade to the Switch with just a few tweaks beyond the obvious technical upgrades, that saves them a lot of money in the R&D stage, so assuming they can get enough battery power in there, it is certainly within expectations that Switch 2 could at least be close to matching PS4 Pro performance when docked. Maybe it could be PS4 base level in portable mode and close to PS4 Pro when docked, something like that seems fairly reasonable for 2023.

That's where the math is wrong. It will be in between ps4 and ps5 overall power, not ps4 and ps4 pro (that only differ in gpu anyway).



Few will be realistic in thsi thread when it comes to power. I bet some want a Pro level portable system. That aint going to happen not at a price point Nintendo is happy with.

I know realistically by 2022 even an affordable system power-wise will be about base PS4, but it will have more modern feature sets. With it possibly being based on Ampere chips. BC would be tough but I would hope Nintendo finds a hardware way to make it fully BC. I think since Nintendo cares so deeply about lighting that they will find some way to get 1 or 2 RTX cores in there. Possible. Won't be as advanced as PC cards or other consoles of course. 8GB of ram and one again Nintendo keeps the UI pretty basic leaving about 6-7GB free for devs. That's not that far behind PS5/XBSXwith 13GB free. Currently, I believe Switch has 3.5 GB free for games which was not far behind a base PS4 5GB free. Switch 2 is roughly 2 Teraflops. Now, what it does offer new besides more power. Nvidia Ampere chip releases in 2020 and it becomes pretty cheap in 2 years after that with revised models for Nintendo much like X1 was 2 years old but revised. 900P screen or 1080P if possible battery wise.

Ability to message friends on the base system. Built-in mic on the pro controller and system. Headphone port on the pro controller. Paddles on the pro controller. Nothing as advanced an Elite controller but look at Power A 3rd party Switch controllers. That's done cheaply enough. Keep the cart slot. Have the dock have some foam padding to protect the screen.

Last edited by Leynos - on 30 December 2019

Bite my shiny metal Cockpit!

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Even wih the best current hardware that consumes about 100W while the Switch is at below 5W iirc. PS4 Pro performance is just unrealistic at this point - even just base PS4 performance would drain the battery way too fast right now.

We aren't far away from matching the Playstation 4 today... The Snapdragon 865 will beat the Xbox One... And the difference between the Xbox One and Playstation 4 isn't generationally different.

Let alone what nVidia has cooking with Orin or even Xavier.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Slownenberg said:
SwitchUP said:

You dont understand what I said. I didnt say anything about not understanding why people compare systems. I said, I dont understand why people expect portable hardware to match things like the ps4 pro. Nothing portable is even close to the pro. Not even close.

Portable hardware does exist on another level entirely. They will always be inferior because they can only get so much performance from a chip without killing a battery in 5 minutes. 

 People should keep their expectations of mobile chips in reality. Unless you know something I dont, the next switch wont be equal to a ps4 pro... not even in 2023. Even the most expensive devices cant match the xbox 1 fat. 

No, what you said is you don't understand why people think a portable system can match x console, meaning any other console. Obviously portable systems advance the same way home systems do. There is no reason why a portable system can't match the power of "x" system, depending on what the two systems are. Switch exceeds the power of 360 and PS3, having come out a decade later, it's reasonable to expect a system coming out 10 years after One/PS4 to exceed those. Maybe it won't match the later upgraded versions of those systems, but it should at least be somewhere in between the power of PS4 and PS4 Pro. We're not talking about a portable system matching a current home system, we're talking about a portable system matching the power of home consoles from 6 to 10 years ago, which the Switch already does.

If Nintendo saves money by not designing a completely brand new system, but instead does a straight upgrade to the Switch with just a few tweaks beyond the obvious technical upgrades, that saves them a lot of money in the R&D stage, so assuming they can get enough battery power in there, it is certainly within expectations that Switch 2 could at least be close to matching PS4 Pro performance when docked. Maybe it could be PS4 base level in portable mode and close to PS4 Pro when docked, something like that seems fairly reasonable for 2023.

Ok... since it has to be said loud and clear, instead of saying x system, then I will say it loud and clear. Compared to a ps4 pro. There. And, how did you think I'm talking about the switch matching the pro today? Do I have to say explicitly that it's coming in 2023 or more? The idea was always in the future. You just want to be difficult. Hopefully you're happy now and it's clear to you.i mean jesus man, you think I was talking about the 360 or ps3? Come on. You really think the switch 2 will be on the same level as the ps4 pro? Not a chance man. How about this, if we are both still here when the new switch comes, I'll bet you that it will not match the pro, plugged into a wall or not. Hopefully I've made myself extremely clear. Dont want to leave anything to your imagination. 



Nu-13 said:
SwitchUP said:

What chipset is that? I'm genuinely asking.  I dont keep up on those things much. That's pretty crazy for a portable chipset to be equal to or above a ps4 in power, and awesome. But I imagine that it would be far too expensive to put into a Nintendo handheld. Hopefully in 3 years though....

The chipset doesn't exist because it wasn't released yet. Nintendo will use tech released in between 2020 and 2021. There's nothing crazy about a switch 2 being a lot more powerful than a ps4 just like there's nothing crazy about the switch being a lot more powerful than the ps3.

SuperNova said:

Seeing that the A12x in the 2018 IPad Pro is the only chip on the market that even comes close to your claim (and not that close either, it has Xbox One S like performance according to apple) and the cheapest device it‘s in goes for 800$+, what you‘re saying is pretty outlandish.

Also todays technology is extremely relevant to a product coming out 2-3 years from now, seeing that the tegra x1 is a 2015 chip in a 2017 product. And even then it was only really cost effective to use it in the Switch since it was somewhat of a dead end for Nvidia, who pivoted away from gaming applications with the successor chips hard. Nvidia had stock to clear and Nintendo got a good deal.

It‘s fair to assume that Nvidia is working on something more custom and for Nintendos next console, and they’re probably going to make sure that it has the most current architecture, but it‘s not going to be some monster, top of the line chip if they want to have any chance of maintaining a 300$ pricepoint.

The tegra x2 all the way from 2015 is already on par or better than the xbox one gpu. And are you seriously using overpriced phones for an argument? The switch was going to release in 2016 with a 2015 chip that was high end. My expectations are the same for the switch 2: a 2022 release using a high end 2021 mobile gpu and proportional advances in ram + cpu.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Even in 5 years that won't be possible without having less than 1 hour of battery life or a handheld that weights a ton. Maybe by 2028 or so they could do so effectively, but with Moore's Law looming ahead, I have my doubts.

Also, Nintendo by far and large prefers using proven technology rather than the newest non-plus-ultra bleeding edge tech. In 3 years Nintendo will be using today's technology as far as computing hardware goes.

Switch can reach about 400 GFlops docked and 240 GFlops undocked. Even just the XBO S is over 3x in terms of raw performance compared to docked Switch, PS4 even almost 5x as powerful. Even the beefiest Smartphone chips can't reach that yet, Snapdragon 855+ stands at around 1000 GFlops - and if you game on those something that fully uses the power, either their battery is sucked empty in short notice or the chips are downclocked to save battery, at cost of lowered performance.

Finally, despite the rather weak performance compared to the consoles, the main gripe players had was not performance, but battery life. Hence why Nintendo used the new chip from NVidia not to enhance performance, but battery life.

In short, if by 2024 a successor to the Switch will come out (I don't expect one earlier unless Switch sales start to tank like those of the Wii) and will still be a hybrid console like the Switch, it will probably be much closer to XBO S performance and not come anywhere near XBO X.

The switch already proves you wrong because nintendo went for the best they could get  while breaking even or having a small profit per unit at $299. It used a 2015 gpu with a release scheduled for 2016.

FLOPS =/= PERFORMANCE. If you're going to use just flops, you should first make an "exchange rate" of up to 2:1 because nvidea gpus tend to perform similarly to amd gpus with a lot more flops. In your language, it's like those 400 gflops on switch are equal to 700-800 when compared to the other amd gpus. Tegra volta already has like 1.3 tflops. Several years later and with a 7/8nm shrink, it should be very easy for nvidea to deliver a 3-3.2 tflop mobile gpu in 2021. That would already match or be close to the raw performance of xb1x gpu.

That's like saying in 2013 that a $299 mobile hardware in 2016 would barely surpass an x360 but the switch is here to prove that wrong. The ps4 and x1 are 2013 consoles using 2012 tech. We're talking about a 9 year technological gap that actually favors mobile tech (it's obviously gonna stay bellow non mobile but the gap is smaller). The switch 2 will be obviously superior than those consoles in every aspect and the only thing that might be close is portable mode gpu power. There's nothing surprising about that, it's just how technology works.

Ok, you‘re straight up fantasising.

Sorry I took the bait and helped derail the thread off topic.



It's technically possible but the battery life would be a few minutes. Unless Nvidia can have a chip 4nm or less in a couple of years and extremely cheap. People are not getting a 4-5 teraflop portable at a $300 price point and a 6-7 hour battery life. It just doesn't seem very realistic. Nintendo has a contract with Nvidia for 20 years which is about the same as they had with AMD.



Bite my shiny metal Cockpit!

Nu-13 said:

SwitchUP said:

What chipset is that? I'm genuinely asking.  I dont keep up on those things much. That's pretty crazy for a portable chipset to be equal to or above a ps4 in power, and awesome. But I imagine that it would be far too expensive to put into a Nintendo handheld. Hopefully in 3 years though....

The chipset doesn't exist because it wasn't released yet. Nintendo will use tech released in between 2020 and 2021. There's nothing crazy about a switch 2 being a lot more powerful than a ps4 just like there's nothing crazy about the switch being a lot more powerful than the ps3.

SuperNova said:

Seeing that the A12x in the 2018 IPad Pro is the only chip on the market that even comes close to your claim (and not that close either, it has Xbox One S like performance according to apple) and the cheapest device it‘s in goes for 800$+, what you‘re saying is pretty outlandish.

Also todays technology is extremely relevant to a product coming out 2-3 years from now, seeing that the tegra x1 is a 2015 chip in a 2017 product. And even then it was only really cost effective to use it in the Switch since it was somewhat of a dead end for Nvidia, who pivoted away from gaming applications with the successor chips hard. Nvidia had stock to clear and Nintendo got a good deal.

It‘s fair to assume that Nvidia is working on something more custom and for Nintendos next console, and they’re probably going to make sure that it has the most current architecture, but it‘s not going to be some monster, top of the line chip if they want to have any chance of maintaining a 300$ pricepoint.

The tegra x2 all the way from 2015 is already on par or better than the xbox one gpu. And are you seriously using overpriced phones for an argument? The switch was going to release in 2016 with a 2015 chip that was high end. My expectations are the same for the switch 2: a 2022 release using a high end 2021 mobile gpu and proportional advances in ram + cpu.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Even in 5 years that won't be possible without having less than 1 hour of battery life or a handheld that weights a ton. Maybe by 2028 or so they could do so effectively, but with Moore's Law looming ahead, I have my doubts.

Also, Nintendo by far and large prefers using proven technology rather than the newest non-plus-ultra bleeding edge tech. In 3 years Nintendo will be using today's technology as far as computing hardware goes.

Switch can reach about 400 GFlops docked and 240 GFlops undocked. Even just the XBO S is over 3x in terms of raw performance compared to docked Switch, PS4 even almost 5x as powerful. Even the beefiest Smartphone chips can't reach that yet, Snapdragon 855+ stands at around 1000 GFlops - and if you game on those something that fully uses the power, either their battery is sucked empty in short notice or the chips are downclocked to save battery, at cost of lowered performance.

Finally, despite the rather weak performance compared to the consoles, the main gripe players had was not performance, but battery life. Hence why Nintendo used the new chip from NVidia not to enhance performance, but battery life.

In short, if by 2024 a successor to the Switch will come out (I don't expect one earlier unless Switch sales start to tank like those of the Wii) and will still be a hybrid console like the Switch, it will probably be much closer to XBO S performance and not come anywhere near XBO X.

The switch already proves you wrong because nintendo went for the best they could get  while breaking even or having a small profit per unit at $299. It used a 2015 gpu with a release scheduled for 2016.

FLOPS =/= PERFORMANCE. If you're going to use just flops, you should first make an "exchange rate" of up to 2:1 because nvidea gpus tend to perform similarly to amd gpus with a lot more flops. In your language, it's like those 400 gflops on switch are equal to 700-800 when compared to the other amd gpus. Tegra volta already has like 1.3 tflops. Several years later and with a 7/8nm shrink, it should be very easy for nvidea to deliver a 3-3.2 tflop mobile gpu in 2021. That would already match or be close to the raw performance of xb1x gpu.

That's like saying in 2013 that a $299 mobile hardware in 2016 would barely surpass an x360 but the switch is here to prove that wrong. The ps4 and x1 are 2013 consoles using 2012 tech. We're talking about a 9 year technological gap that actually favors mobile tech (it's obviously gonna stay bellow non mobile but the gap is smaller). The switch 2 will be obviously superior than those consoles in every aspect and the only thing that might be close is portable mode gpu power. There's nothing surprising about that, it's just how technology works.

I get your points, but I seriously doubt that a 2020/21 Switch 2 or Pro revision is "Much more powerful than a PS4" for a reasonable price.

360 was released in 2005 and the Switch in 2017 that's 12 years, and the difference in performance on screen isn't staggering. I can buy that maybe (big maybe ) Switch 2 at 299 is a bit more power than a Base PS4. But I don't think it will touch PS4 Pro Specs. Not in 2021.



Leynos said:

Few will be realistic in thsi thread when it comes to power. I bet some want a Pro level portable system. That aint going to happen not at a price point Nintendo is happy with.

I know realistically by 2022 even an affordable system power-wise will be about base PS4, but it will have more modern feature sets. With it possibly being based on Ampere chips. BC would be tough but I would hope Nintendo finds a hardware way to make it fully BC. I think since Nintendo cares so deeply about lighting that they will find some way to get 1 or 2 RTX cores in there. Possible. Won't be as advanced as PC cards or other consoles of course. 8GB of ram and one again Nintendo keeps the UI pretty basic leaving about 6-7GB free for devs. That's not that far behind PS5/XBSXwith 13GB free. Currently, I believe Switch has 3.5 GB free for games which was not far behind a base PS4 5GB free. Switch 2 is roughly 2 Teraflops. Now, what it does offer new besides more power. Nvidia Ampere chip releases in 2020 and it becomes pretty cheap in 2 years after that with revised models for Nintendo much like X1 was 2 years old but revised. 900P screen or 1080P if possible battery wise.

Ability to message friends on the base system. Built-in mic on the pro controller and system. Headphone port on the pro controller. Paddles on the pro controller. Nothing as advanced an Elite controller but look at Power A 3rd party Switch controllers. That's done cheaply enough. Keep the cart slot. Have the dock have some foam padding to protect the screen.

Is the switch only as powerful as a ps3? Hell no.

Leynos said:
It's technically possible but the battery life would be a few minutes. Unless Nvidia can have a chip 4nm or less in a couple of years and extremely cheap. People are not getting a 4-5 teraflop portable at a $300 price point and a 6-7 hour battery life. It just doesn't seem very realistic. Nintendo has a contract with Nvidia for 20 years which is about the same as they had with AMD.

The switch started with a 3-4 hour battery. Systems don't have flops, gpus have and that is just one part of them. And as stated previously, an nvidea gpu from 2021 will only need 3 tflops to match or get close to the PERFORMANCE of x1x's gpu.