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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel: the new face of apartheid - Discuss

Eagle367 on 24 July 2018
NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

I'm on the opposite scale here: I think we will see this end when Palestine no longer exists. At this point I don't care whether Palestine or Israel exists I just don't want oppression and conlifct to continue and innocents to die. Also I think rightfully this land is plaestine's since the British basically forced the Jewish state on their land when they could've basically chosen any land in the middle east. Palestine is not just Muslims, it's also native Jews and Christians but Israel was always formed as a Jewish state and that too provides an inherent flaw for me in Israel. It wasn't the local Jews that made Israel like how Muslims in India made Pakistan but rather European Jews that made it so

The difference is that the extinction of Palestine isn't necessary.  Israel would be happy to have peaceful neighbors.  That's not an option for them though.  Palestinians have that option and have chosen hate and death instead, despite it being obviously against their own interests.

The other important distinction is that the Israelis could do as you suggest and eliminate the Palestinian threat.  They possess that power and choose, against their own interests, to allow their belligerent neighbors to continue murdering their people because the other option is simply wrong.

If the Palestinians possessed the power to destroy Israel, they would tomorrow, regardless of Israel's actions.  Their mere existence would be enough provocation.

Too me, the whole anti-Israel thing is pretty nutty.  The Palestinians are the masters of their own fate in the end.  If they wished to stop the pain and suffering, their own more than Israel's, all they must do is renounce hate and genocide and truly work towards a better future for themselves and Israel.  But they don't.  So even though they are the weaker ones and receive the blunt end of the destruction, they receive no sympathy from me.  They are the souls that need changing here.

And it's time the world stopped being neutral and started condemning them instead of indulging their hate and treating them like victims instead of the aggressors

I strongly disagree.Natenyahu is obssessed and is slowly illegally taking more and more land from the Palestinians and squeezing them into smaller and smaller places. Plus it's not easy to genocide a people larger than yours that have a high birthrate as well. Look at the beginning of the century and how much illegal settlements Israel has and now how much illegal settlements they have. Israel is playing the long game as otherwise they might meet opposition from many countries. As in actual physical opposition not just condemnation. It's telling that only US supports calling Hamas a terror group and only US stood with Israel in UN. Israel routinely murders children, nurses, doctors etc with no terrorist in sight. The soldiers enjoy beating up children for fun. Israel is much worse than Palestine and a huge offender. They haven't destroyed Palestine yet for their own survival and benefit. It has nothing to do with morals or human decency. Israel is very trigger happy when It comes to palestinians and sees them as subhuman but is controlling itself because it fears other world powers. Look at what's happening at West bank and you'll see the trend of Israel ending Palestine in half a century or century. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Dark_Lord_2008 on 24 July 2018

Israel has the right to defend itself from the invaders. Military action taken by Israel to defend its citizens from invasion and terrorism is justified. 



CartBlanche on 24 July 2018
Aeolus451 said:
CartBlanche said:

That is idiotic and non sensical. I'm convinced you don't really understand English and logic. When I criticise the US, am I criticising all the catholics, because the US is 1 nation under (a catholoc) god? That also means every time YOU criticise Iran, or any other middle eastern country, you are criticising the whole of Islam!! 

I suggest you may need to go back to school to learn about critical thinking and analysis and then how to come to logical conclusion, rather than the emotive one you current have, which is bereft of any logic.

Got so triggered that you're dialing up the ad hominem? Stop it or fuck off.

You were triggered right from the start going all ad hominem calling me  "leftie" in your very first post. What gold fish memory you have and a double standard. Quite the snowflake you've turned out to be! lol. You still aren't unable to comprehend comparisons! How do you actually do in life? Quite the dolt. You might need a thesaurus for that. If you don't know what a thesaurus is, start with a dictionary and work your way up. 



CartBlanche on 24 July 2018
Dark_Lord_2008 said:

Israel has the right to defend itself from the invaders. Military action taken by Israel to defend its citizens from invasion and terrorism is justified. 

The invaders that aren't actually in their country, while Israel is in Syria on the Gollen Heights and grabbing land on a daily basis in Gaza. Israel are the invaders, check current world maps for proof!



Aeolus451 on 24 July 2018
CartBlanche said:
Aeolus451 said:

Got so triggered that you're dialing up the ad hominem? Stop it or fuck off.

You were triggered right from the start going all ad hominem calling me  "leftie" in your very first post. What gold fish memory you have and a double standard. Quite the snowflake you've turned out to be! lol. You still aren't unable to comprehend comparisons! How do you actually do in life? Quite the dolt. You might need a thesaurus for that. If you don't know what a thesaurus is, start with a dictionary and work your way up. 

Leftie is not an insult, Sherlock. It's an umbrella term for left leaning people. Lefties have a habit of going after jews and defending hamas. Instead of going after my arguments in your thread, you resort to ad hominem which means you don't actually have any argument (just like your op) or I bothered you to the point that you can't control yourself. That being said there's no point in bothering with ya anymore.



lightningfunk on 24 July 2018

new?

wasn't it always like this?



Eagle367 on 24 July 2018
NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

I strongly disagree.Natenyahu is obssessed and is slowly illegally taking more and more land from the Palestinians and squeezing them into smaller and smaller places. Plus it's not easy to genocide a people larger than yours that have a high birthrate as well. Look at the beginning of the century and how much illegal settlements Israel has and now how much illegal settlements they have. Israel is playing the long game as otherwise they might meet opposition from many countries. As in actual physical opposition not just condemnation. It's telling that only US supports calling Hamas a terror group and only US stood with Israel in UN. Israel routinely murders children, nurses, doctors etc with no terrorist in sight. The soldiers enjoy beating up children for fun. Israel is much worse than Palestine and a huge offender. They haven't destroyed Palestine yet for their own survival and benefit. It has nothing to do with morals or human decency. Israel is very trigger happy when It comes to palestinians and sees them as subhuman but is controlling itself because it fears other world powers. Look at what's happening at West bank and you'll see the trend of Israel ending Palestine in half a century or century. 

You can strongly disagree as much as you like.  The power of peace is, and always has been in Palestinian hands.  Settlements?  Sheesh.

As for the US being the only country to stand for Israel at the UN.  That tells you more about the UN and the world than it does about Israel.  They live in an impossible situation and their biggest offense is not refusing to die quietly this time.  As I said in my first post, the greatest crime against humanity that can be committed in the eyes of this world is to be a Jew and defend your home.

Let me Remind you that this is historically Palestine's home. There are and were alwayawe're always palestinian Jews as Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Jews. Israel was formed by and for European Jews. Foreigners to the land. Palestine is defending it's home while Israel is trying to make one without the existence of Palestine. If you ignore the illegal settlements you are just blind. Sorry but the world rarely agrees on anything yet it agrees that Israel is the aggressor. The UN is not perfect but this is more than 99% unanimous. Whether you agree or not matters not. Regardless I don't care if Israel or Palestine survive as long as there is no war or oppression from either side 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Dark_Lord_2008 on 24 July 2018

"I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand.
Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.
In order to obtain the goal of returning to Palestine, all of us sometimes have to grit our teeth." - Yasser Arafat

It is highly unlikely the Palestinians views on Israel have changed since the death of their "great" leader Yasser Arafat



Jumpin on 24 July 2018
NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

I strongly disagree.Natenyahu is obssessed and is slowly illegally taking more and more land from the Palestinians and squeezing them into smaller and smaller places. Plus it's not easy to genocide a people larger than yours that have a high birthrate as well. Look at the beginning of the century and how much illegal settlements Israel has and now how much illegal settlements they have. Israel is playing the long game as otherwise they might meet opposition from many countries. As in actual physical opposition not just condemnation. It's telling that only US supports calling Hamas a terror group and only US stood with Israel in UN. Israel routinely murders children, nurses, doctors etc with no terrorist in sight. The soldiers enjoy beating up children for fun. Israel is much worse than Palestine and a huge offender. They haven't destroyed Palestine yet for their own survival and benefit. It has nothing to do with morals or human decency. Israel is very trigger happy when It comes to palestinians and sees them as subhuman but is controlling itself because it fears other world powers. Look at what's happening at West bank and you'll see the trend of Israel ending Palestine in half a century or century. 

You can strongly disagree as much as you like.  The power of peace is, and always has been in Palestinian hands.  Settlements?  Sheesh.

As for the US being the only country to stand for Israel at the UN.  That tells you more about the UN and the world than it does about Israel.  They live in an impossible situation and their biggest offense is not refusing to die quietly this time.  As I said in my first post, the greatest crime against humanity that can be committed in the eyes of this world is to be a Jew and defend your home.

You're hypocritical considering you're arguing that the non-Jewish Palestinians shouldn't be allowed to defend their homes from the invaders.
Most of the Jewish people in Israel are foreigners who had land given to them by a militant colonial power simply based on their religion. All of the Palestinians are native to the region, having roots in the land that span back to times when they were the original Jewish population, and even before that; thousands of years. Now 5.2 million of them are without homes because of this Israeli Crusader Kingdom.

Basically, if you are a Jewish Palestinian, then they allow you to stay, but if you are not Jewish, they kick you out of your home, forcing you into a life of poverty and starvation.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 24 July 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

MrWayne on 24 July 2018

First of all, calling Israel "the new face of apartheid" is a huge exaggeration and playes down the apartheid state in South Africa.

That being said I think it's a step in the wrong direction, decisions like that won't help to deescalate this decade long conflict.

On a more general note, everyone can save a lot of time and energy when they not trying to discuss whether the founding of Israel was legitimate or not. The fact is that Israel now exists and many millions of Jews live in Palestine, whether you like it or not and the only thing that could change that would be the biggest crime in human history since the Holocaust. So if someone is interested in discussing the Palestine–Israeli conflict and possible solutions he or she should use the current situation as the starting point. Revanchism is a dangerous concept, just take a look at the 20th century.