mrstickball said: How many of you that complain that the 360/PS3 only look good on HDTVs actually OWN one of those systems and an HDTV? I OWN a 360. I have since launch. Does an HDTV make Gears of great? Abso-friggin-lutely. Does it look better than any Wii game, Xbox game, or any other game on SDTV? Yes, by far. You do not need an HDTV to get great graphics off of a 360. More importantly than the power aspects are the gaming aspects. You couldn't do Oblivion's graphics on Wii. But more importantly, the Radiant AI would be scaled back so severely that the game would lose the coolest aspects of it. Everyone that whines and says "oh the 360 and PS3 are just graphics whores" are the people that haven't actually got into the depths of a good 360 or PS3 game. Have you ever played Gears of War on Co-Op on insane? It's one of the funnest gaming experiences I've ever had, just like that many of you like Wii Sports as one of the greatest gaming experiences. What about Multi-Player? There aren't 8m people paying $3 a month for WoW because of the graphics, they are playing it because its one of the funnest multi-player games made. The advantage with the 360, and to a lesser extent the PS3 is that they are truely "next gen" when it comes to online applications. The Wii has no remote advantage for online abilities outside of VC and hokey gaming channels. How many games for the Wii, up till now can you play against people online? As of May of last year, the 360 had CoD2, all of the EA Sports games, PGR 3, DOA4, GRAW, FNR3, Full Auto, and a few others that were online-capible. And that didn't include the games that had atleast something for online. Nintendo fans try to make this race one dimensional: power vs. gameplay control. It's just not that simple. Yes, that might of been the excuse 10 years ago with the PS1 vs. Saturn or the Genesis vs. SNES, but it's not that simple. Why am I a 360 gamer? RPGs. I get more of them than the Wii and PS3 combined this year (if not the next 2 years). Once I get broadband, I'll be experiencing the best online features the console community has ever seen (can you download an expansion pack for a game on the Wii?). There are things that everyone keeps forgetting, but as a 360 owner I know what my 360 offers me. Its not a Wiimote, and its not just a bunch of power. It's the Marketplace, it's the Arcade, it's 100 player battles on Huxley, it's an extra downloadable Uber-Dungeon on Blue Dragon, it's Shivering Isles for Oblivion, it's more people on screen with more actions and reactions. And thats why I like my 360. If you want to be impressed by the Wiimote, feel free. But I strive for more than just controls in a gaming console.

 you're wrong

http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_faq.htm

Minimum System Requirements:

• Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows XP 64-bit
• 512MB System RAM
• 2 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
• 128MB Direct3D compatible video card
• and DirectX 9.0 compatible driver;
• 8x DVD-ROM drive
• 4.6 GB free hard disk space
• DirectX 9.0c (included)
• DirectX 8.1 compatible sound card
• Keyboard, Mouse

Recommended:

• 3 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
• 1 GB System RAM
• ATI X800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series, or higher video card

NOW COMPARE WITH RE4 PC VERSION:

Resident Evil 4:
Supported OS: Windows® 2000/XP (only)
Processor: 1 GHz Pentium® III or AMD Athlon™ (or better)
RAM: 256 MB
Video Card: 128 MB DirectX® 9.0c-compliant AGP or PCI Express graphics card (256 or higher for High Graphics Detail support) (see supported list*)
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c compliant (or better)
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c or higher (included on disc)
CD-ROM: 12x or faster CD-ROM
Hard Drive Space: 1.2 GB minimum
Peripherals Supported: Gamepad

 

Recommended System Requirements

 

SO IF A PENTIUM BASED SYSTEM HAVE TO COMPARE WITH A GAMECUBE MUST HAVE A 2.4 PENTIUM!!!!!!

 

oblivion needs a 3 ghz pentium based cpu...

 

I think that wii can handle oblivion!!!!

 

 

chill out alko, no need to go crazy.

Kwaad said: wii_are_better_than_ I would perfer 1:1 motion controls. However The wii is not that, The wiimote functions more like a button that you have to punch your hand, than 1:1. I'll stick with a smiple button.Â

 Depends on the developer and what they've done with the game.

1:1 controls are possible, it's just that no one has done it yet.

BenKenobi88 said: chill out alko, no need to go crazy.

 sorry so many post to answer!!!!

next time i'll make only one big post!!!!

HappySqurriel said: bdbdbd said: It's pretty shitty to compare specs between different architectures, it's also not about the performance, but also how it is used. Sports car with 100kW of power, has better performance than a truck with 400kW. But try to pull load of 20 tons with sports car with 400kW, when it's easy for a truck with 100kW. Back in the 80's and early 90's "Bits" was the meaningless stat that everyone was using to determing processing power. Intel pushed "Hz" because, although Intel processors were overall faster, AMD and Cyrix processors were generally faster per "Hz" and ran at a slower speed. Now it seems like everyone is pushing "Cores" as the meaningless measure of processing power ... The truth is that "processing power" is far more complicated than that and can not be easily measured across architectures. Hypothetically speaking a processor that was designed to be used for game development and the size (and cost) of the chip were not issues could have an extra wide bus (1024 or 2048 bits wide), have 48 64-bit wide registers for holding 3 Matricies, and include Matrix Multiplication/Addition/Subtraction/etc. functions. Matrix-Matrix and Vector-Matrix multiplication is done far more often than anything else in a modern 3D game. In an old architecture (like the N64) to do matrix multiplication would require 32 Memory movements, 64 Floating point multiplications, and 48 floating point additions. With this hypothetical processor this could be reduced to 1 to 2 Memory Moves, 1 Floating point multiplication (64 at the exact same time) and 2 Floating point additions. In comparing these two very different architectures the "old architecture" would need to run far faster, and have far more cores in order to be similar in performance to the theoritical processor I described.

People have to have something from what to say "mine is better". It's pretty much about how specialized processors are. Comparing specs between GPU:s and CPU:s, you'll notice, that GPU:s often have higher specs than CPU:s, at the same time while they work at lower clock cycles. As far as i've understood differencies between high and low instructions, you can get the maximum performance from CISC by using code that is "complex" enough. I couldn't find the right words to describe what i mean, but i think you understood. :)

bdbdbd said:   People have to have something from what to say "mine is better". It's pretty much about how specialized processors are. Comparing specs between GPU:s and CPU:s, you'll notice, that GPU:s often have higher specs than CPU:s, at the same time while they work at lower clock cycles. As far as i've understood differencies between high and low instructions, you can get the maximum performance from CISC by using code that is "complex" enough. I couldn't find the right words to describe what i mean, but i think you understood. :

 let's return to topic.

 

 XBOX:

• Graphics processing unit (GPU) and system chipset: 233 MHz NV2A ASIC. Co-developed by Microsoft and NVIDIA.
  • 4 pixel pipelines with 2 texture units each
  • 932 megapixels/second (233 MHz x 4 pipelines), 1,864 megatexels/second (932 MP x 2 texture units) (peak)
    • 115 million vertices/second, 125 million particles/second (peak)
    • Peak triangle performance: 29,125,000 32 pixel triangles/sec raw or w. 2 textures and lit.
      • 485,416 triangles a frame at 60fps
      • 970,833 triangles a frame at 30fps
  • 4 textures per pass, texture compression, full scene anti-aliasing (NV Quincunx, supersampling, multisampling)
  • Bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic texture filtering
  • Similar to the NV20 and NV25 PC GPUs.

ATI Flipper

• 162 MHz
• 4 pixel pipelines
• 1 texel per pixel pipeline
• 4 texels per clock cycle (4 pixels with 1 texel per pixel)
• Maximum of 8 texture layers per rendering pass (done in 8 clock cycles)
• 650 megapixels per second
• 650 megatexels per second
• Point, Bilinear, Trilinear, Anisotropic Mip-Map Filtering
• Perspective-Correct Texture Mapping
• Bump Mapping
• Environment Mapping
• 24-bit Z Buffer
• S3TC Texture Compression
• Subpixel Anti-Aliasing
• Geometry and Lighting Engine
• 33 million polygons per second (peak)
• 6 million to 12 million polygons per second (with effects)
• Hidden Surface Removal (HSR) based on early Z-test
• Virtual Texture Design
• 2MB Embedded Frame Buffer
• 1MB Embedded Texture Cache
• 10.4 gigabytes per second texture cache read bandwidth
• scene texture data stored in 24MB 1T-SRAM main memory
• 8.6 GFLOPS
• Custom Macronix 16-bit DSP Sound Processor
• 81 MHz
• 64 voices
• ADPCM encoding
• sound data stored in 16MB A-Memory

 

but we all know that flipper has better graphics thank a better design,infact microsoft left nvidia for ati for their x360.

wii probably double cube specs...

so wii has the best graphics from "480p era" 

 

apart that if whenever a softco will do a game for x360/ps3 optimized for 480p probably it will be better looking...but maybe we'll never know...

 

then on super mega AI...

Oblivion on pc needs a 3 ghz cpu (pentium cisc)

re4 on pc needs  a 2.4 ghz cpu (pentium cisc)

re4 on cube run on a 485 mhz power pc (risc)

oblivion on wii??? why not!!!!

 

 

The Wii is a TOY! It's played by soccer moms and at tea parties. It is NOT next gen and never will be, unless you want to let me know when your getting Oblivion or Assassin's Creed or countless others that could never be ported to a Wii

bdbdbd said: People have to have something from what to say "mine is better". It's pretty much about how specialized processors are. Comparing specs between GPU:s and CPU:s, you'll notice, that GPU:s often have higher specs than CPU:s, at the same time while they work at lower clock cycles. As far as i've understood differencies between high and low instructions, you can get the maximum performance from CISC by using code that is "complex" enough. I couldn't find the right words to describe what i mean, but i think you understood. :)

CISC (Complex Instruction Set Computers) generally are CPUs that include instructions which do multiple instructions at the same time in order to increase processing power; much like my theoritical matrix operations earlier. Increasing the number of instructions (and adding complex instructions) has become less popular today mainly because in only adds processing power to specific tasks rather than adding processing power in general. Traditionally, when designing a processor for a specific application (like a game console) the favourite approach has been to add complicated instruction sets because there are usually only a few areas which need dramatic improvments.

RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computers) generally are CPUs that have a very small instruction set and gain performance through increasing the clock speed; in extreme cases (super scaler RISC processors) the instructions can be reduced to integer bit-shifts, addition and memory moves. RISC processors were usually found to be much faster at running code in general and (in many cases) clever programmers could use tricks to outperform CISC processors' built in instructions.

The obvious example of the advantage CISC processors have over RISC processors is the GPU in most computers. Your GPU can perform far (FAR) more Floating point operations per second than your CPU (meaning it can produce far better graphics than your CPU could) but you would have far (FAR) worse performance if you attempted to run Microsoft Word on your GPU then your CPU.

vizunary said: The Wii is a TOY! It's played by soccer moms and at tea parties. It is NOT next gen and never will be, unless you want to let me know when your getting Oblivion or Assassin's Creed or countless others that could never be ported to a Wii <--- even the name is a joke..... Yes, it is outselling the "real" next gen systems, but so are water-guns and playing cards :) I could pick up one as an impulse buy and never think twice about it. I am not saying it doesn't have a place in the market, it's definitely fun to play, but all in all, it's still a toy, and the standing and jumping and swinging got old after about six hours.

Don't be ignorant, all video games are toys.  Your statement about soccer moms playing actually goes against that because I don't know a lot of moms who like toys in the sense your talking about it.

Also it is possible for Obilivion graphics wise to be done on Wii.  I don't remember where but I definitely remember a dev saying it was possible.

Yeah, I'm sorry, kinda went off the deep end there..... The point I was trying to make is not just a graphics standpoint, but as a whole, physics, AI, game engines in upcoming games especially, like Lair, UT3, Halo 3, could not most likely be handled by the Wii. My brother has one and it is alot of fun to play, but even playing Zelda I didn't get the immersive experience I do from a game like Oblivion, and what I can't even imagine MGS4 and Assassin's Creed are going to be like. I'll probably get a Wii after a price drop and some good releases come out, Metroid in particular, but I despise party games and personally enjoy single player or online games better.

By soccer moms and such, I mean that my mother(she's 49) likes the Wii, she actually got one of her friends to come over to play Wii sports. Which I think it's great to see someone who always called them "stupid games" getting into it, but I just don't put the whole experience on par with the other systems.

I really do not undestand people actually doing the power argument b/w these systems. The Wii damn well better be more powerful than a xbox that came out 5 YRS ago, if not everyone should demand their money back right now. As far as competing with a PS3 or 360, there is no competition. Sorry again for the rant before.