Blue3 said: LingLing said: This article could have been written by Kwaad. The only difference was, that the author didn't call the wii a fad.   or maybe not every one buys into what the wii is selling. Everything is a fad on a long enouth time line.

It seems that certain groups of people have terrible difficulty seeingsituations from outside their point of views. One group would be those that don't realize that probably a few Wii owners are not completely enamored by the games and the other group would be where this author belongs, the group that feels that the Wii needs deeper games. It may be tru to win over some converts but most seem happy with the titles that are out there. When I mentioned games to a Wii fan and he throws back red steel, excite truck, Wii sports and elebits. as "good" games, then I imediatly realize that we are on a different page.

And bdbdbd 480p is ED not HD and a blu ray rewritable for your PC should run you above $299, your implaying that you can get a decent computer for 300 bucks and even if you do manage to find one I don't see how it could comare to the PS3 in terms of playing games or console exclusive titles.

"That's the thing I think most PS3 fans miss ... Most products people buy are purchased for the primary use they were designed for. People buy iPods because they're an MP3 player, people buy cell-phones to talk on the phone, and people buy videogame consoles to play videogames. After they own it people may use their iPod to watch videos, their cellphone to take pictures, or their videogame console to watch movies but these are not bought for these uses."

 

Happy, what one reason did you initial purchase your computer for? Are you saying that if your computer did nothing else you would be satisfied? If people purchased Ipods just to play MP3 players.... why does it trump the other Mp3 players that do the same thing? If people purchase cell phones just to talk on cellphones why don't you see everyone carrying around barebone nokias?

Two things.... fad's and the fact that people actually do consider the additional functionalites/features of phone/car/cell/video game system.

 

EDIT: cklmb, name any system that cost as much as the ps3 that also had two very successful predacessors, a wide and varied amount of developer support, and has the largest first party game developer behind it?

 

All the stuff you mentioned means the PS3 is a mainstream console which is what I already said... Why does everyone think the pattern of this console war will be like every other one before it?

staticneuron said: Happy, what one reason did you initial purchase your computer for? Are you saying that if your computer did nothing else you would be satisfied? If people purchased Ipods just to play MP3 players.... why does it trump the other Mp3 players that do the same thing? If people purchase cell phones just to talk on cellphones why don't you see everyone carrying around barebone nokias?  Two things.... fad's and the fact that people actually do consider the additional functionalites/features of phone/car/cell/video game system.

The computer is a slightly different purchase than most of the other things I mentioned. A computer is a necessary tool which I "need" to own (I'm a software developer), and I choose to keep it up to date because it is important for several of my hobies (graphics programming and videogames). Basically, the computer is one of the few truly multi-function devices in the world; I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another similar device.

The iPod was dominant for several reasons ... It was (one of) the first hard-drive based portable MP3 players on the market, it was the only one of these players that had a well designed user-interface, and it was well marketed. After it became popular sales took on a life of their own and people continue to choose it mainly because it continues to be a well designed MP3 player and it is cool to own one. A thing to consider is that soon after the  iPod was released there were several companies offering similar devices with colour screens, video playback for a small ammount more than the iPod ($50) and the iPod still outsold these devices.

If you know of a barebones cellphone that has good call reception and can be used with one of my local providers please tell me of it. About a quarter to half the people I talk to about this are on the exact same page as I am; cellphones have too many buttons, overly complicated user interfaces, low battery lives and are too large because of what they put into them and I really don't want these extra features. Cellphone companies do not like barebones phones because they can not charge as much (and thus do not get the same level of profit) from a barebones phone as they do from a Camera + MP3 phone; most customers do not care that much about the price of the phones because they are heavily subsidized by the phone company.

ckmlb said: All the stuff you mentioned means the PS3 is a mainstream console which is what I already said... Why does everyone think the pattern of this console war will be like every other one before it?

Why do you think the pattern of this console war will be drastically different than every one that came before it?

There are variations and people can argue about exceptions but the general patter of the console wars (including handhelds) is:

1. System begins selling rapidly
2. Passes the sales of the competition
3. Gains third party support
4. Sales continue at (or accelerate to) a near record pace
5. Third parties focus on the system and ignore the competition
6. Sales of competition falls off

 

I think the pattern will be different like I said because of the PS3's price, until it goes lower it won't be selling as much which means its gonna start off slow and ramp up as it goes, not the other way around...

It's the 8,000th "Wii is a fad" article. And there was much rejoicing...

Five generations of iPod later and people are still calling it a fad. I'm sure there are crotchety old people who are still calling television a fad.

staticneuron said: Blue3 said: LingLing said: This article could have been written by Kwaad. The only difference was, that the author didn't call the wii a fad.   or maybe not every one buys into what the wii is selling. Everything is a fad on a long enouth time line. It seems that certain groups of people have terrible difficulty seeingsituations from outside their point of views. One group would be those that don't realize that probably a few Wii owners are not completely enamored by the games and the other group would be where this author belongs, the group that feels that the Wii needs deeper games. It may be tru to win over some converts but most seem happy with the titles that are out there. When I mentioned games to a Wii fan and he throws back red steel, excite truck, Wii sports and elebits. as "good" games, then I imediatly realize that we are on a different page. And bdbdbd 480p is ED not HD and a blu ray rewritable for your PC should run you above $299, your implaying that you can get a decent computer for 300 bucks and even if you do manage to find one I don't see how it could comare to the PS3 in terms of playing games or console exclusive titles. "That's the thing I think most PS3 fans miss ... Most products people buy are purchased for the primary use they were designed for. People buy iPods because they're an MP3 player, people buy cell-phones to talk on the phone, and people buy videogame consoles to play videogames. After they own it people may use their iPod to watch videos, their cellphone to take pictures, or their videogame console to watch movies but these are not bought for these uses."   Happy, what one reason did you initial purchase your computer for? Are you saying that if your computer did nothing else you would be satisfied? If people purchased Ipods just to play MP3 players.... why does it trump the other Mp3 players that do the same thing? If people purchase cell phones just to talk on cellphones why don't you see everyone carrying around barebone nokias? Two things.... fad's and the fact that people actually do consider the additional functionalites/features of phone/car/cell/video game system.   EDIT: cklmb, name any system that cost as much as the ps3 that also had two very successful predacessors, a wide and varied amount of developer support, and has the largest first party game developer behind it? Â

And here we go again... How many HDTV:s support 480p@60 through analog? How many HDTV:s support 720p or 1080p/i through HDMI? How many HDTV:s are actually EDTV:s? Do you gain better picture quality with Wii connected to HDTV? Usually these fanboys like to comment in a way, that Wii wouldn't work with HDTV or you don't gain anything from HD. And rewritable BD drive... In Finland it costs almost (at least last summer it did) the same than PS3. Anyway that wasn't the point. I don't personally see any benefit from read-only drive in TV-program/movie use. You see problem with PS3 is, that as a gaming machine, it's focus is too much out from gaming and you can't call it a decent PC either. Then what is it? A freakin TiVo. My point was that compared to media center/multimedia PC, PS3 pretty much sucks. Theres nothing that PC can't do that the PS3 does and PC is updateable. Since there was a comparasion to PC. So it's about different type of gaming. Everyone would be carrying barebone Nokias if that would be trendy. I think you turned this thing upside down. You should be asking that (since this topic was about Wii, this way it fit much better) why people buy barebone Nokias, digital cameras, portable VG consoles, MP3 players, GPS positioners, when a better Nokian can do all this. I am currently writing this post with a phone that can be used to make calls, video calls, send and receive SMS/MMS/email, take pictures/videos, play games that i can download, use as a map, listening music and radio, watching digital TV, as a modem for laptop and as you can see, i can even browse the internet with this. Why do people have PC:s. I bought mine for browsing the web, store my digital photos and burn them to CD/DVD and buy paper versions through internet. And of course to play starcraft. Now, the PS3 misses one of the most important functions; (re)writable drive and i also own a PC, why would i buy PS3 for doing what my PC can do? I can update it with rewritable BD drive anytime i want to. I can get a laptop with bigger HDD and rewritable drive much cheaper than PS3. Or a desktop even cheaper than that. And currently, i propably can get HD movies faster by downloading them from internet than buying discs from store/online.

HappySqurriel said: staticneuron said: Happy, what one reason did you initial purchase your computer for? Are you saying that if your computer did nothing else you would be satisfied? If people purchased Ipods just to play MP3 players.... why does it trump the other Mp3 players that do the same thing? If people purchase cell phones just to talk on cellphones why don't you see everyone carrying around barebone nokias? Two things.... fad's and the fact that people actually do consider the additional functionalites/features of phone/car/cell/video game system.   The computer is a slightly different purchase than most of the other things I mentioned. A computer is a necessary tool which I "need" to own (I'm a software developer), and I choose to keep it up to date because it is important for several of my hobies (graphics programming and videogames). Basically, the computer is one of the few truly multi-function devices in the world; I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another similar device. The iPod was dominant for several reasons ... It was (one of) the first hard-drive based portable MP3 players on the market, it was the only one of these players that had a well designed user-interface, and it was well marketed. After it became popular sales took on a life of their own and people continue to choose it mainly because it continues to be a well designed MP3 player and it is cool to own one. A thing to consider is that soon after the iPod was released there were several companies offering similar devices with colour screens, video playback for a small ammount more than the iPod ($50) and the iPod still outsold these devices. If you know of a barebones cellphone that has good call reception and can be used with one of my local providers please tell me of it. About a quarter to half the people I talk to about this are on the exact same page as I am; cellphones have too many buttons, overly complicated user interfaces, low battery lives and are too large because of what they put into them and I really don't want these extra features. Cellphone companies do not like barebones phones because they can not charge as much (and thus do not get the same level of profit) from a barebones phone as they do from a Camera + MP3 phone; most customers do not care that much about the price of the phones because they are heavily subsidized by the phone company.

 

I guess your exceptions was a way for not answering the second question? Why is the computer special?  Phones, consoles, portables,  most modern MP3 players, certain cars so forth and so on are exmpleof devices that can have multiple functions.  I pretty much wrote my response to this " Most products people buy are purchased for the primary use they were designed for" which pretty much now is a fallacy. Because of value that people access most would get a phone with a camera or the ability to text over a regular phone that had no additional functions or they would buy one because of fads/trends (I used to sell phones thats why I use this analogy so much). I've been around people who make silly purchase, impulse, emotional and trend based ones and I have only learned that peoples purchasing habits are not clear cut or even entirely logical.

 Most providers (I am not sure which one you have) have a phone that is offered for free if you sign a multiple year plan (providers like verizon, t-mobile, cingular. I am not to sure about sprint and it is not true for metro PCS cause they do not have plans) what these phones normally have are just the ability to make a call and a speakerhone (normally LG or nokia brand). From my experiences with working at verizon and cingular (and having co workers and friends work at other stores) is that most people do not chose the basic or free phones. The few that did ere elderly and maybe a few middle aged men who seemed like they had better things to do in life. Crazy isn't it! we adjusted are stock for that as well.You have it backwards on the profits my friend. Most cell companies make MORE if you take the free phone while they rope you into a long term plan. The more expensive phones they end up eating a large amount of the costs on.

In terms of the Wii, the 360 and the PS3.. ALL of them have multiple functions. NONE of the systems do just gaming or revolves entirely around gaming. These sales are now assesed off of trend and percieved value. The ipod is a greatexample because there was  a couple of devices that were in range like the rio. The Ipod seems more like a trend that evolved into a better device. Shortly after the ipods release they were many devices that offered a little more but was ignored not because of price but it came down to user interface and features. One of the best features of the original ipod was how it transferred files.

 

 @bdbdbd

your comment "But i would say that Wii supports HD compatible TV:s, it has 480p output (pretty much same thing saying that 360/PS3 don't support SD)."

All I was pointing out to you tis that the Wii does ED. It is not that the Wii supports HDTV's (because it doesn't) It is that the HDTV's can support the resolution the Wii is outputing (which makes only a minor difference, I am using component right now for my wii)

 

The point is that most people do NOT buy featureless phones and even if they were to do so because of a fad.. that makes the features of the phone and primary purpose of the phone/device a non-issue. Take for instance the motorolla Razr, has same features as motorolla 710 except the 710 had less issues and glitches. That didn't stop the razor for taking the intustry by storm for quite some time (even outselling the better performin 815 and LG phones) untill the fad died.... and chances are... a large amount of razr's with it.

 

What has started this whole ball rolling is what happens when the novelty wears of? When the rose colored glasses break? The answer is that it better have s plethora of really good games for it or it will go the way of the gamecube. The sales wont stop but slow down. There isn't going to be a repeat of the dreamcast this generation. The games are comming but will the Wii surpass the GC? SSBM, mario kart, mario sunshine, metroid and zelda all came out on the GC yet didn't propel it to insane highs. So not only must these title be released and good.... The must have enough of an edge(be unique) to win over converts.

In the world of console gamingprice and features matter....... but nowhere near as much as hype, trends and Stellar games. 

The primary reason PCs became ubiquitous is for things like word processing and spreadsheets and other work-related functions. For most PCs sold today, this is probably still a main reason. However, when things like Napster and later Kazaa/Limewire and of course iTunes came along, PCs offered a better, more flexable way to manage personal media than using physical discs, especially combined with iPods. In order for PCs to develop this second primary feature, they needed to offer an improvement over CDs in terms of ease-of-use and user experience. Plus, people already thought PCs were worth the price based on word processing and spreadsheets etc alone. For all the various uses PCs have, the fact that people are willing to pay the price just for Office already (especially considering how quickly the price of a PC has fallen over the last 20 years) and the fact that PCs make many things easier than the old way, means there is not much of a hurdle for PCs to jump to become multi-use devices. Today when people buy PCs, they consider all this different functionality. The primary reason people buy cellphones is to make calls... Again, prices of technology are in a constant freefall, and people already place a high value just in making calls. Companies then add "lateral thinking with withered technology," like for example a really cheap digital camera which is valuable to people based on its usefulness and "cool" factor, but isn't sending that bottom line price way up year-to-year, and so it becomes possible for cell phones to develop multiple purposes that people consider in making purchases. But will it be possible for a company to offer a totally new cost:value proposition, like the iPhone? Do people care about the higher quality camera, the motion and touch sensitivity, the disc space, all the multi-functionality of the OS? Do they place a $500-600 value on all of that? I guess we'll find out. iPod shows us that people value the ease-of-use and "cool factor," but other than that iPhone is a different proposition. PS3 is doing the same thing. Its offering a totally new cost:value relationship. For the tens of millions of people who waited until PS2 cost $130 to buy one, and for the hundreds of millions who never bought a PS2, obviously the $600 proposition of PS3 doesn't make much sense. When game consoles have only established usefulness as game players, and then only at a price of $200 or less to capture the mainstream, having a $600 console, with a lot of that price coming from non-gaming features, is foolish. Wii costs the same amount past successful consoles have cost at launch. The cost:value proposition already makes sense to people just as a games machine, before they find out about the news/weather channels or internet browser or any of the non-gaming functionality. I suspect that some of the Wii's non-gaming features will become standard features in future consoles. Microsoft at least have a chance to get down towards a price where their console makes sense to people only as a gaming machine, and then open the Trojan horse. But instead, they are releasing the Elite. Again, a lot of the non-gaming functionality they are adding increases the price of the machine, and destroys the existing cost:value relationship of systems like PS2. I think people are going to prove more willing to buy both Wii and Apple TV than buying just a PS3 or a 360 Elite. Its approximately the same price on the Wii/ATV combo as on either one of the other machines, and though Wii + ATV doesn't have the huge specs, they are more designed around ease-of-use and user-experience.