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Forums - Sales Discussion - Updated sales numbers from NPD via GAF (Forza, Demon's Soul, Rabbids, etc.)

Porcupine_I on 02 February 2010
Kasz216 said:
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Demotruk said:
NPD claims many of these numbers are false.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/213812/ndp-responds-to-leaked-data/

Even if the numbers were real they'd have to say they were false.

 

So i guess by your logic, if the numbers are real, NPD has to make up some fake numbers now so they still can stick to their claim that most of them were completely false?

NPD doesn't and won't even release those numbers.  So why would they need to make up fake ones?

As stated.  Companies can't post any info not related to their own franchises, and won't release franchise numbers so low.

Ok, i get it now. The numbers are correct because they are low. 

Of course that is some solid ground to dismiss a detailed statement from NPD.

 

i am sorry for the Missunderstanding.

So, it's of your opinion... that if numbers released that are supposed to be known only by being paid for... NPD is going to say "yep, those are the numbers."

I mean, it says in that very article that one of the main points of NPD research is that comapnies can't release other companies numbers to respect their privacy.

Ergo, any leaked numbers need to be rebutted to you know.... protect those comapanies privacy.

It's common sense.

 

The numbers may or may not be real.  However NPD's response would be the same either way.  It's just like when information about videogame projects get released.  Real or not, companies dismiss them as fake.

God forbid somebody in the world ever lie when they have an actual reason to lie.

just one more question now, please bear with me on this:

 

In your opinion, after NPD dismissing these numbers now, do you think they should continued to be used as an argument in a sales discussion?



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Kasz216 on 02 February 2010
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Demotruk said:
NPD claims many of these numbers are false.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/213812/ndp-responds-to-leaked-data/

Even if the numbers were real they'd have to say they were false.

 

So i guess by your logic, if the numbers are real, NPD has to make up some fake numbers now so they still can stick to their claim that most of them were completely false?

NPD doesn't and won't even release those numbers.  So why would they need to make up fake ones?

As stated.  Companies can't post any info not related to their own franchises, and won't release franchise numbers so low.

Ok, i get it now. The numbers are correct because they are low. 

Of course that is some solid ground to dismiss a detailed statement from NPD.

 

i am sorry for the Missunderstanding.

So, it's of your opinion... that if numbers released that are supposed to be known only by being paid for... NPD is going to say "yep, those are the numbers."

I mean, it says in that very article that one of the main points of NPD research is that comapnies can't release other companies numbers to respect their privacy.

Ergo, any leaked numbers need to be rebutted to you know.... protect those comapanies privacy.

It's common sense.

 

The numbers may or may not be real.  However NPD's response would be the same either way.  It's just like when information about videogame projects get released.  Real or not, companies dismiss them as fake.

God forbid somebody in the world ever lie when they have an actual reason to lie.

just one more question now, please bear with me on this:

 

In your opinion, after NPD dismissing these numbers now, do you think they should continued to be used as an argument in a sales discussion?

The leaks were going to be dismissed whether true or false.

Therefore NPD's dismissial in no way changed the validity of the leak.

Therefore it doesn't change the validity of them being used in an argument about sales discussion.

 

 



Porcupine_I on 02 February 2010
Kasz216 said:
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Demotruk said:
NPD claims many of these numbers are false.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/213812/ndp-responds-to-leaked-data/

Even if the numbers were real they'd have to say they were false.

 

So i guess by your logic, if the numbers are real, NPD has to make up some fake numbers now so they still can stick to their claim that most of them were completely false?

NPD doesn't and won't even release those numbers.  So why would they need to make up fake ones?

As stated.  Companies can't post any info not related to their own franchises, and won't release franchise numbers so low.

Ok, i get it now. The numbers are correct because they are low. 

Of course that is some solid ground to dismiss a detailed statement from NPD.

 

i am sorry for the Missunderstanding.

So, it's of your opinion... that if numbers released that are supposed to be known only by being paid for... NPD is going to say "yep, those are the numbers."

I mean, it says in that very article that one of the main points of NPD research is that comapnies can't release other companies numbers to respect their privacy.

Ergo, any leaked numbers need to be rebutted to you know.... protect those comapanies privacy.

It's common sense.

 

The numbers may or may not be real.  However NPD's response would be the same either way.  It's just like when information about videogame projects get released.  Real or not, companies dismiss them as fake.

God forbid somebody in the world ever lie when they have an actual reason to lie.

just one more question now, please bear with me on this:

 

In your opinion, after NPD dismissing these numbers now, do you think they should continued to be used as an argument in a sales discussion?

The leaks were going to be dismissed whether true or false.

Therefore NPD's dismissial in no way changed the validity of the leak.

Therefore it doesn't change the validity of them being used in an argument about sales discussion.

 

 

A simple YES would have been sufficient.

 

thank you!



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Khuutra on 02 February 2010

Does Siras even track game sales? I don't know!



jarrod on 02 February 2010
Khuutra said:
Does Siras even track game sales? I don't know!

Siras tracks purchases throughout the system.  Not only game sales, but used game sales.  You can even narrow it down by SKU and see how many times that specific unit is bought, sold back, rebought, etc.



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Khuutra on 02 February 2010
jarrod said:
Khuutra said:
Does Siras even track game sales? I don't know!

Siras tracks purchases throughout the system.  Not only game sales, but used game sales.  You can even narrow it down by SKU and see how many times that specific unit is bought, sold back, rebought, etc.

See, I thought htey only did that with hardware! But if they do it with software, too, then they... Wow. They know almost everything



jarrod on 02 February 2010
Porcupine_I said:
Kasz216 said:
Demotruk said:
NPD claims many of these numbers are false.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/213812/ndp-responds-to-leaked-data/

Even if the numbers were real they'd have to say they were false.

 

So i guess by your logic, if the numbers are real, NPD has to make up some fake numbers now so they still can stick to their claim that most of them were completely false?

They didn't say "most", they said "some".  And they also blamed it partially on the approxomations. They also didn't check the thread directly, meaning they were looking at whatever GamePro cited second hand and we don't even know what that is.

 

Sadly though, the cat's outta the bag and I doubt we'll see anything else from Anihawk. :/



jarrod on 02 February 2010
ioi said:
jarrod said:

And again, if NPD were really trending 30% under, Nintendo wouldn't cite them for their investors...

Well they do, despite the fact that NPD can be off by large amounts on certain games.

They clearly make sure they they label NPD as such as well. I guess it is a credibility thing - investors are more likely to go off an independent tracking service, even if Nintendo's internal data is much more accurate.

I'm not disputing NPD can't be off, but a consistent 30% under margin would be too great to present to shareholders imo.  If that were the case, Nintendo wouldn't use them, they'd just refer to shipment data alone.



Kasz216 on 02 February 2010
Khuutra said:
jarrod said:
Khuutra said:
Does Siras even track game sales? I don't know!

Siras tracks purchases throughout the system.  Not only game sales, but used game sales.  You can even narrow it down by SKU and see how many times that specific unit is bought, sold back, rebought, etc.

See, I thought htey only did that with hardware! But if they do it with software, too, then they... Wow. They know almost everything

Well they only do it with subsricber members.

So, if Konami doesn't subscribe with Siras they don't know anything about Konami sales.

For Siras to track it, the product has to have a specific barcode, and Siras needs to know about the barcodes...

the actual purpose of Siras isn't supposed to be sellthrough data, but it's releated to loss prevention, returns and stuff like that.

For example, theoretically if you buy a Wii, you no longer need to keep your receit because Siras knows EXACTLY when you bought your wii so they know how long the waranty lasts. 

Also, Wal-mart can keep track of how many times 360's get bought, then a different broken one gets returned in it's place because they can match the serial number with what the barcode for the box was supposed to be... stuff like that.



jarrod on 02 February 2010
ioi said:
I don't believe anyone said a consistent 30% undertracking (unless I misunderstood). I think in some cases they could undertrack a given game in a given month by 30% but obviously this will be counterbalanced by some games being overtracked and so on.

No, the Sega studio head said NPD was usually under by 30% according to their "retail partners".  He seemed rather uninformed in general though, and I'd say it's pretty likely he was confusing shipments, regions, or something.