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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Natal lag issues will hurt game development

Lord Flashheart on 23 January 2010
jaime713 said:
Well nathal is awesome technology is just think is in the wrong business. I would be awesome if I could control all the electronics in my house with it. Ps ARK or wutever looks more promising since for gaming it looks to be potential with many different genres for now though. I will still advise ppl to wait to before getting maybe at least a couple of weeks to see some reviews

It can be used on your PC and there are some very clever people on t'internet (not round here) so you might get your wish.



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Lord Flashheart on 23 January 2010
JaggedSac said:
^^Because your avatar has a mustache. Nobody trusts mustaches.

He has two mustaches. only one you can see.



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NJ5 on 23 January 2010
JaggedSac said:
NJ5 said:
richardhutnik said:
CommonMan said:
I don't care, I'm still buying it. I will control my dashboard like Minority Report, play some awesome RTS on a console finally, maybe they'll update the Magic: The Gathering game to work with your own cards too, so many awesome applications if only it's done right! Oh and please port Myst to the Xbox 360 for Natal, that would be amazing!

I suggest you may want to wait on it, if you are expecting RTS to suddenly show up.  I had learned my lesson with the DS.  I bought it hoping I would get Punch Out and also RTS on it, and they didn't show up.  I thought the PSP also would have mouse support, and do RTS portably also, but it didn't do that either.  One should always wait to see how things actually work, before being a lock to spend money on them.

True... plus, MS hasn't shown any pointer functionality with Natal, so RTS might not even work (at least not with pointing if that's what you guys were thinking).

 

It is easy to have a pointer with Natal.  Do you recall the link that I gave you to the TVs that have similar functionality as Natal?  The guy was typing on a virtual keyboard onscreen.  It will be quite simple to do that with Natal.  I imagine the resolution available to Natal would be at least the same or greater than what was shown there as well.

Similar functionality, but it could have different accuracy, and different requirements in terms of the distance from the TV... who knows?

They said it has "a 4 cm cube accuracy" (without specifying if they meant 4*4*4 or 4 cubic cm), given that and the fact that they haven't shown any pointer functionality, I'd say it's uncertain...

 



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richardhutnik on 23 January 2010
JaggedSac said:
NJ5 said:
richardhutnik said:
CommonMan said:
I don't care, I'm still buying it. I will control my dashboard like Minority Report, play some awesome RTS on a console finally, maybe they'll update the Magic: The Gathering game to work with your own cards too, so many awesome applications if only it's done right! Oh and please port Myst to the Xbox 360 for Natal, that would be amazing!

I suggest you may want to wait on it, if you are expecting RTS to suddenly show up.  I had learned my lesson with the DS.  I bought it hoping I would get Punch Out and also RTS on it, and they didn't show up.  I thought the PSP also would have mouse support, and do RTS portably also, but it didn't do that either.  One should always wait to see how things actually work, before being a lock to spend money on them.

True... plus, MS hasn't shown any pointer functionality with Natal, so RTS might not even work (at least not with pointing if that's what you guys were thinking).

It is easy to have a pointer with Natal.  Do you recall the link that I gave you to the TVs that have similar functionality as Natal?  The guy was typing on a virtual keyboard onscreen.  It will be quite simple to do that with Natal.  I imagine the resolution available to Natal would be at least the same or greater than what was shown there as well.

It may be doable with Natal.  However, executivies may say that consoles aren't a place to do RTS on them, so that means no RTS on Natal.  I did see Sony with the Wands make mention of RTS on the PS3 with them, so I hold more hope of RTS being in place with the PS3 and the Wands than the 360 and Natal.

By the way, why the rush to get Natal on the 360?  Why not wait until it is shown to work, has sufficient support and doesn't do its version of RROD?



thetonestarr on 23 January 2010
cloofoofoo said:
He seemed pretty fair and honest in what he was saying.So basicly its rather incredible for what it is but its not very practical due to some input lag?

Looks like it to me. I'd say a second-generation Natal-type machine would be a lot more practical, but won't happen UNLESS some devs manage to get around the impracticalities of this one and make it at least mildly successful.

I'd be thinking maybe something with higher-quality cameras that can focus on a much smaller area and a dedicated processor, since they skimped on that this time around.

Put those two together and you DO have practicality. Combine that with a Wiimote-like controller option and you're guaranteed a surefire win.



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letsdance on 23 January 2010
Feylic said:


The forums here used to contain great discussions and provided decent insight from the players perspective.  Lately, there has been so much trolling and overall negativity of anything not Sony related by some select users that have degraded these forums greatly.  This thread was created with the sole intent of downplaying a Microsoft product, in the Microsoft forums, by someone who doesn't even own a 360.  Why can't people just enjoy the systems they own? 

If you want to have an online pow-wow of how your system of choice is the "best" this generation, by all means do it in the appropriate forum.  Let the other system users have their place to discuss their favorite system as well.

OT

I think Natal can open up some exciting possibilities for games.  I think when used in combination with the 360 controller some amazing things can be done.  I keep picturing the scene in Minority Report were Tom Cruise is manipulating his computer with his hands.  Or throwing a greneade in a game by making the motion. 

 

Try not to forget that this goes 3 ways...


apperantly these guys either dont go into sony threads (aka http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=98690&page=1&str=1618020425, http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=98340&page=1&str=964093655, http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=98706&page=1&str=1886562152) or they just have really bad short term memory. Either way... why did someone get banned for saying they are more interested in Ps3 motion when the OP has a direct comparison of the two

“[Natal is] exceedingly clever, but the lag on the input and lack of physical buttons is really going to restrict the kind of games that can be done with it,” he added, before going on to praise

Sony’s (currently nameless) alternative. “Sony’s solution will be cheap, accurate and will put buttons at your fingertips, meaning everything from action adventures to FPSes can be handled with the same input.”)...

it seemed non trolling and on topic to me. I just assume it was the massive amount of bitter people reporting to please them...

 

OT - people have been saying this since e3. nothing new.



JaggedSac on 23 January 2010
NJ5 said:

Similar functionality, but it could have different accuracy, and different requirements in terms of the distance from the TV... who knows?

They said it has "a 4 cm cube accuracy" (without specifying if they meant 4*4*4 or 4 cubic cm), given that and the fact that they haven't shown any pointer functionality, I'd say it's uncertain...

 

The distance from the camera would really determine the accuracy.  But I rewatched some of the E3 stuff and it looks like the avatar onscreen is matching the dude pretty damn well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie02k3eAvxY



Lord Flashheart on 23 January 2010
JaggedSac said:
NJ5 said:

Similar functionality, but it could have different accuracy, and different requirements in terms of the distance from the TV... who knows?

They said it has "a 4 cm cube accuracy" (without specifying if they meant 4*4*4 or 4 cubic cm), given that and the fact that they haven't shown any pointer functionality, I'd say it's uncertain...

 

The distance from the camera would really determine the accuracy.  But I rewatched some of the E3 stuff and it looks like the avatar onscreen is matching the dude pretty damn well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie02k3eAvxY

But not perfect so lag = fail = rawl.



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JaggedSac on 23 January 2010
Lord Flashheart said:
JaggedSac said:
NJ5 said:

Similar functionality, but it could have different accuracy, and different requirements in terms of the distance from the TV... who knows?

They said it has "a 4 cm cube accuracy" (without specifying if they meant 4*4*4 or 4 cubic cm), given that and the fact that they haven't shown any pointer functionality, I'd say it's uncertain...

 

The distance from the camera would really determine the accuracy.  But I rewatched some of the E3 stuff and it looks like the avatar onscreen is matching the dude pretty damn well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie02k3eAvxY

But not perfect so lag = fail = rawl.

Well, Kodu stated in an interview they are going to be reducing the input lag before release the product.  The important thing to glean from this is that it will not get worse.  The input lag will only get better than what is in that video.  Their neural network and firmware will be improved.  The accuracy will be the same as the CMOS sensor is the same.  The only question is how close was that camera.



letsdance on 23 January 2010
JaggedSac said:
Lord Flashheart said:
JaggedSac said:
NJ5 said:

Similar functionality, but it could have different accuracy, and different requirements in terms of the distance from the TV... who knows?

They said it has "a 4 cm cube accuracy" (without specifying if they meant 4*4*4 or 4 cubic cm), given that and the fact that they haven't shown any pointer functionality, I'd say it's uncertain...

 

The distance from the camera would really determine the accuracy.  But I rewatched some of the E3 stuff and it looks like the avatar onscreen is matching the dude pretty damn well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie02k3eAvxY

But not perfect so lag = fail = rawl.

Well, Kodu stated in an interview they are going to be reducing the input lag before release the product.  The important thing to glean from this is that it will not get worse.  The input lag will only get better than what is in that video.  Their neural network and firmware will be improved.  The accuracy will be the same as the CMOS sensor is the same.  The only question is how close was that camera.


That was before this though.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-drops-internal-natal-chip_1

I dont know how much of an effect it will have on it but I know people were talking up the chip in NATAL as a reason why the ps eye will never be as accurate ("the input is already processed by the time it gets to the console" or something along those lines)