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selnor said:

You seem to be talking alot of one sided unfactual things. Firstly the sales of 360/PC games says otherwise to your arguement about a game being on PC to. Also I never mentioned cost, PC's in most homes are for the family. Not ideal for gaming ( less time, usually tucked away ). A small number of people buy PC's to play Gears Of War or Fable 2 or Halo 3 or Mass Effect. Likewise the same for Conviction. Facts say these are console audience games. Consoles are easier to use and less buggy. PC and 360 are 2 markets that basically dont affect each other.

On Mass Effect 2, you realise that that video is 1stly not the first 12 mins and 2ndly an E309 build of the game. The game engine used has fuly fledged Global Lighting ( The most advance lighting games have seen so far. ) ME1 is right up there still for graphics but had issues it could have had better. Mass Effect 2 has addrerssed all these and added even more higher res textures and more detailed environments. Not to mention the animation and facial features are even more real. Immediately it's already in the mix of the best by being better than the first.

This video is from a more final build and I will ad, there is absolutely no cgi in Mass Effect or ME2. Incredible. It's all game engine. Nothing so far out on consoles looks that real. IMO. It's close to a TV sci fi series or Film for effects and atmosphere.

Spoiler ALERT!!!!!!

Nothing on any other game released so far Beats 6:13. Astonishing lighting. (IMO)

The PCs may be for the family, but again, it's cheaper, and to a 15 year old who can't afford both consoles, surely exclusitivity has to be factored in in terms of PC exclusives or not. Halo 3's not on PC by the way....And yes not many people buy a PC just to play 360 games, but more PC exclusives and then 360 games if they care for them. PC does influence the 360 market beause I own a PC instead of a 360 because of the reason of most 360 exclusives appear on PC and in better quality. That's influence right there.

And no, the video I watched wasn't the E3 build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFajRU4xAVI It's much better quality than the one you link and shows what I mean about textures and AA.
Plus global lighting is hardly the most advanced lighting any game has seen so far - it's a generic feature now. You want full volumetric lighting, ray tracing, god rays etc. STALKER does this, Crysis does this, Uncharted 2 does this, Mass Effect doesn't - it does the 360 trick of puking a lot of bloom on screen. Again, the video shows low poly models and flat textures. It looks nice, but it's nothing more than smoke & mirrors which fails if you spend the time looking for the detail which isn't there, or in any close up. Look at it this way - the recommended specs are an 8800GT. That's an old card. You can't expect such revolutionary graphics to be working on it. So yeah, basically the lighting is okay, nothing the PC or PS3 haven't seen done before or better.

Still, looks like a great title. but graphically stunning? Nothing gamers haven't seen before & frankly done a whole lot better.



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Mazty said:
selnor said:

You seem to be talking alot of one sided unfactual things. Firstly the sales of 360/PC games says otherwise to your arguement about a game being on PC to. Also I never mentioned cost, PC's in most homes are for the family. Not ideal for gaming ( less time, usually tucked away ). A small number of people buy PC's to play Gears Of War or Fable 2 or Halo 3 or Mass Effect. Likewise the same for Conviction. Facts say these are console audience games. Consoles are easier to use and less buggy. PC and 360 are 2 markets that basically dont affect each other.

On Mass Effect 2, you realise that that video is 1stly not the first 12 mins and 2ndly an E309 build of the game. The game engine used has fuly fledged Global Lighting ( The most advance lighting games have seen so far. ) ME1 is right up there still for graphics but had issues it could have had better. Mass Effect 2 has addrerssed all these and added even more higher res textures and more detailed environments. Not to mention the animation and facial features are even more real. Immediately it's already in the mix of the best by being better than the first.

This video is from a more final build and I will ad, there is absolutely no cgi in Mass Effect or ME2. Incredible. It's all game engine. Nothing so far out on consoles looks that real. IMO. It's close to a TV sci fi series or Film for effects and atmosphere.

Spoiler ALERT!!!!!!

Nothing on any other game released so far Beats 6:13. Astonishing lighting. (IMO)

The PCs may be for the family, but again, it's cheaper, and to a 15 year old who can't afford both consoles, surely exclusitivity has to be factored in in terms of PC exclusives or not. Halo 3's not on PC by the way....And yes not many people buy a PC just to play 360 games, but more PC exclusives and then 360 games if they care for them. PC does influence the 360 market beause I own a PC instead of a 360 because of the reason of most 360 exclusives appear on PC and in better quality. That's influence right there.

And no, the video I watched wasn't the E3 build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFajRU4xAVI It's much better quality than the one you link and shows what I mean about textures and AA.
Plus global lighting is hardly the most advanced lighting any game has seen so far - it's a generic feature now. You want full volumetric lighting, ray tracing, god rays etc. STALKER does this, Crysis does this, Uncharted 2 does this, Mass Effect doesn't - it does the 360 trick of puking a lot of bloom on screen. Again, the video shows low poly models and flat textures. It looks nice, but it's nothing more than smoke & mirrors which fails if you spend the time looking for the detail which isn't there, or in any close up. Look at it this way - the recommended specs are an 8800GT. That's an old card. You can't expect such revolutionary graphics to be working on it. So yeah, basically the lighting is okay, nothing the PC or PS3 haven't seen done before or better.

Still, looks like a great title. but graphically stunning? Nothing gamers haven't seen before & frankly done a whole lot better.

Stop puking nonsense. Global Illumination came after STALKER, CRYSIS ETC. It was new to CRYEngine 3 and new to Unreal Engine 3 after Gears Of War 2.

ME1 has still got some of the best textures of any game. ME2 beats it by alot. The video you posted was an E3 bulid. It's not the first 12 mins either. It's a selected part for Gamespot interview.

If ME2 can look like CGI during gameplay and use the 'limited' 360, then give me more. Because the first 30 mins of ME2 are the most impressive graphics Ive seen on consoles period. When it releases it's the new king in my books. I have never seen gameplay better than Squares CGI before. At 6:13 in the vid I posted, That was astounding.



selnor said:

Stop puking nonsense. Global Illumination came after STALKER, CRYSIS ETC. It was new to CRYEngine 3 and new to Unreal Engine 3 after Gears Of War 2.

ME1 has still got some of the best textures of any game. ME2 beats it by alot. The video you posted was an E3 bulid. It's not the first 12 mins either. It's a selected part for Gamespot interview.

If ME2 can look like CGI during gameplay and use the 'limited' 360, then give me more. Because the first 30 mins of ME2 are the most impressive graphics Ive seen on consoles period. When it releases it's the new king in my books. I have never seen gameplay better than Squares CGI before. At 6:13 in the vid I posted, That was astounding.

Look like CGI? Most impressive console graphics you've seen? 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Killzone_2_PS_Day.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Uncharted-2-hotel-climb-screenshot.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Gt5-screenshot.jpg

Global lighting is not new to ME2, any links  for that claim? Ambient Occulsion is a method of GI and that's been around for a while and is in STALKER etc.

The reason ME2 isn't going to have outstanding graphics are:
1)Flat models made up with bumped textures. Just mapping. Look at them from the 'wrong' angle and you can see this.
2)Crap AA. Hardly CGI at all.
3)The quality of the video you are using is awful.
4)How do you expect amazing graphics from the 8800GT? Really? Any chance you can explain that one?

Unfortunaly I get the feeling I could show you a screenshot of Crysis on ultra & you'd still think nothing beats ME2. I'll leave it to the critics, and simple logic. Not an exclusive, not on great hardware, therefore can't be outstanding graphics. Simple as that.



Mazty said:
selnor said:

Stop puking nonsense. Global Illumination came after STALKER, CRYSIS ETC. It was new to CRYEngine 3 and new to Unreal Engine 3 after Gears Of War 2.

ME1 has still got some of the best textures of any game. ME2 beats it by alot. The video you posted was an E3 bulid. It's not the first 12 mins either. It's a selected part for Gamespot interview.

If ME2 can look like CGI during gameplay and use the 'limited' 360, then give me more. Because the first 30 mins of ME2 are the most impressive graphics Ive seen on consoles period. When it releases it's the new king in my books. I have never seen gameplay better than Squares CGI before. At 6:13 in the vid I posted, That was astounding.

Look like CGI? Most impressive console graphics you've seen? 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Killzone_2_PS_Day.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Uncharted-2-hotel-climb-screenshot.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Gt5-screenshot.jpg

Global lighting is not new to ME2, any links  for that claim? Ambient Occulsion is a method of GI and that's been around for a while and is in STALKER etc.

The reason ME2 isn't going to have outstanding graphics are:
1)Flat models made up with bumped textures. Just mapping. Look at them from the 'wrong' angle and you can see this.
2)Crap AA. Hardly CGI at all.
3)The quality of the video you are using is awful.
4)How do you expect amazing graphics from the 8800GT? Really? Any chance you can explain that one?

Unfortunaly I get the feeling I could show you a screenshot of Crysis on ultra & you'd still think nothing beats ME2. I'll leave it to the critics, and simple logic. Not an exclusive, not on great hardware, therefore can't be outstanding graphics. Simple as that.


Firstly lets stop with PC comparison. I said on consoles originally anyway.

2ndly You cant judge AA on the internet on ANY video. However we know it has 2xAA and native 720p on 360 according to Bioware. So it will look as sharp as Gears 2 or Uncharted 2. Texture point you make me laugh. Unreal Engine 3 is known for being a texture god engine. This is the latest Unreal Engine 3.5.2 running ME2. I'm as surprised as the next person, I did not expect ME2 to be the beater of Uncharted 2. But it has really stepped it up another notch.

It's ok to want to defend your statement that the 360 is limited. I guess it sucks when games show the opposite. Look at the comments in the spoiler thread on this very site. People know this game is graphically insane.



selnor said:
Mazty said:
selnor said:

Stop puking nonsense. Global Illumination came after STALKER, CRYSIS ETC. It was new to CRYEngine 3 and new to Unreal Engine 3 after Gears Of War 2.

ME1 has still got some of the best textures of any game. ME2 beats it by alot. The video you posted was an E3 bulid. It's not the first 12 mins either. It's a selected part for Gamespot interview.

If ME2 can look like CGI during gameplay and use the 'limited' 360, then give me more. Because the first 30 mins of ME2 are the most impressive graphics Ive seen on consoles period. When it releases it's the new king in my books. I have never seen gameplay better than Squares CGI before. At 6:13 in the vid I posted, That was astounding.

Look like CGI? Most impressive console graphics you've seen? 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Killzone_2_PS_Day.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Uncharted-2-hotel-climb-screenshot.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Gt5-screenshot.jpg

Global lighting is not new to ME2, any links  for that claim? Ambient Occulsion is a method of GI and that's been around for a while and is in STALKER etc.

The reason ME2 isn't going to have outstanding graphics are:
1)Flat models made up with bumped textures. Just mapping. Look at them from the 'wrong' angle and you can see this.
2)Crap AA. Hardly CGI at all.
3)The quality of the video you are using is awful.
4)How do you expect amazing graphics from the 8800GT? Really? Any chance you can explain that one?

Unfortunaly I get the feeling I could show you a screenshot of Crysis on ultra & you'd still think nothing beats ME2. I'll leave it to the critics, and simple logic. Not an exclusive, not on great hardware, therefore can't be outstanding graphics. Simple as that.


Firstly lets stop with PC comparison. I said on consoles originally anyway.

2ndly You cant judge AA on the internet on ANY video. However we know it has 2xAA and native 720p on 360 according to Bioware. So it will look as sharp as Gears 2 or Uncharted 2. Texture point you make me laugh. Unreal Engine 3 is known for being a texture god engine. This is the latest Unreal Engine 3.5.2 running ME2. I'm as surprised as the next person, I did not expect ME2 to be the beater of Uncharted 2. But it has really stepped it up another notch.

It's ok to want to defend your statement that the 360 is limited. I guess it sucks when games show the opposite. Look at the comments in the spoiler thread on this very site. People know this game is graphically insane.

Okay I'll stop with the PC comparison,.
Why can't you judge AA on videos? That makes no sense.  2x AA at 720p? That's awful. At low resolutions you need high AA, and considering the 360 & PS3 can usually churn out 4xAA or better, 2x simply isn't enough. So it most likely won't look as sharp as console exclusive titles. Unreal known as a texture god engine? What does that even mean?? It's more known for puking bloom like everything's fluorescent. And don't expect the same quality of textures on the 360 as on PC as 360 has a lower resolution and less memory size for textures.
Again, Uncharted 2 looks far better. The textures are sharper with more prost-processing effects such as god-rays, motion blur, field of depth effects and so on. If you can please, please, please explain how you expect a non-exclusive title (that has a recommended card of an 8800GT) has better graphics than exclusive titles, I'd love to know as that means all exclusive titles, across two platforms no less, must have been going wrong somewhere.

As for graphically insane...yeah...may want to look at games other than ME2. Try Killzone 2, GT5, God of War III, Gears of War 2 etc. If you can show me a good screenshot of ME2 which shows this amazing lighting and great textures, I'd like to see it, as so far nothing has made me say 'wow', but clearly you've seen something I haven't.



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Mazty said:
selnor said:
Mazty said:
selnor said:

Stop puking nonsense. Global Illumination came after STALKER, CRYSIS ETC. It was new to CRYEngine 3 and new to Unreal Engine 3 after Gears Of War 2.

ME1 has still got some of the best textures of any game. ME2 beats it by alot. The video you posted was an E3 bulid. It's not the first 12 mins either. It's a selected part for Gamespot interview.

If ME2 can look like CGI during gameplay and use the 'limited' 360, then give me more. Because the first 30 mins of ME2 are the most impressive graphics Ive seen on consoles period. When it releases it's the new king in my books. I have never seen gameplay better than Squares CGI before. At 6:13 in the vid I posted, That was astounding.

Look like CGI? Most impressive console graphics you've seen? 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Killzone_2_PS_Day.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/Uncharted-2-hotel-climb-screenshot.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Gt5-screenshot.jpg

Global lighting is not new to ME2, any links  for that claim? Ambient Occulsion is a method of GI and that's been around for a while and is in STALKER etc.

The reason ME2 isn't going to have outstanding graphics are:
1)Flat models made up with bumped textures. Just mapping. Look at them from the 'wrong' angle and you can see this.
2)Crap AA. Hardly CGI at all.
3)The quality of the video you are using is awful.
4)How do you expect amazing graphics from the 8800GT? Really? Any chance you can explain that one?

Unfortunaly I get the feeling I could show you a screenshot of Crysis on ultra & you'd still think nothing beats ME2. I'll leave it to the critics, and simple logic. Not an exclusive, not on great hardware, therefore can't be outstanding graphics. Simple as that.


Firstly lets stop with PC comparison. I said on consoles originally anyway.

2ndly You cant judge AA on the internet on ANY video. However we know it has 2xAA and native 720p on 360 according to Bioware. So it will look as sharp as Gears 2 or Uncharted 2. Texture point you make me laugh. Unreal Engine 3 is known for being a texture god engine. This is the latest Unreal Engine 3.5.2 running ME2. I'm as surprised as the next person, I did not expect ME2 to be the beater of Uncharted 2. But it has really stepped it up another notch.

It's ok to want to defend your statement that the 360 is limited. I guess it sucks when games show the opposite. Look at the comments in the spoiler thread on this very site. People know this game is graphically insane.

Okay I'll stop with the PC comparison,.
Why can't you judge AA on videos? That makes no sense.  2x AA at 720p? That's awful. At low resolutions you need high AA, and considering the 360 & PS3 can usually churn out 4xAA or better, 2x simply isn't enough. So it most likely won't look as sharp as console exclusive titles. Unreal known as a texture god engine? What does that even mean?? It's more known for puking bloom like everything's fluorescent. And don't expect the same quality of textures on the 360 as on PC as 360 has a lower resolution and less memory size for textures.
Again, Uncharted 2 looks far better. The textures are sharper with more prost-processing effects such as god-rays, motion blur, field of depth effects and so on. If you can please, please, please explain how you expect a non-exclusive title (that has a recommended card of an 8800GT) has better graphics than exclusive titles, I'd love to know as that means all exclusive titles, across two platforms no less, must have been going wrong somewhere.

As for graphically insane...yeah...may want to look at games other than ME2. Try Killzone 2, GT5, God of War III, Gears of War 2 etc. If you can show me a good screenshot of ME2 which shows this amazing lighting and great textures, I'd like to see it, as so far nothing has made me say 'wow', but clearly you've seen something I haven't.

Most games on PS3 or 360 either have no AA or x2. It's rare to have x4 on HD consoles. MGS4 had NONE.

Also Gears Of War 2 looks crap compared to ME2. Bioware have done a much much better job with UE3 than Epic.What I meant bty texture god was UE3 is known for having amazing textures. And I thought overbloom was something people said about GT5 or Uncharted 2. Not 360 games.

Screenshots of ME2:



selnor i tought DIRT 2, FM 3, Alan Wake, Halo Reach and Fable 3 are graphic king.




ME1 textures for characters up close are still impressive today so if ME2 has improved on this as much as I've read very few games will come close. If any of you nay sayers had spent anytime playing ME1 you would know how good it looked.

I can't wait til this is released because then i'll be able to see how much it's improved though I suspect those that have never played either will continue to be on here knocking it.



selnor said:

Most games on PS3 or 360 either have no AA or x2. It's rare to have x4 on HD consoles. MGS4 had NONE.

Also Gears Of War 2 looks crap compared to ME2. Bioware have done a much much better job with UE3 than Epic.What I meant bty texture god was UE3 is known for having amazing textures. And I thought overbloom was something people said about GT5 or Uncharted 2. Not 360 games.

Screenshots of ME2:

-snip-

 

Erm you need to look up your spec knowledge of the consoles. The 360 offers a 'free' 4xAA to almost any game, whereas the PS3 has 4xMSAA on Killzone 2 etc, and the Sabatour has SSAA. It's hardly rare to have 4xAA on the consoles, especially the 360 with it being a large advantage over the PS3 when it comes down to multiplatform titles.

Well no denying they look good, but at actual 720p, the textures do look flat, though that explosion is really impressive.Overbloom in GT5 and Uncharted? First I've ever heard of that, and it's an absurd claim:
Notice the nice after effects such as feild of depth and motion blur, something which the ME2 screens aren't showing. Plus looks like better AA.



I wouldn't use a cut scene still of GT5 to back up your claims. I haven't seen any gameplay shots that come close to that. Cut scenes can always look better.