"better than they should given their players"

are you saying they got that far by being "lucky"? obviously, they went that far because their players are good enough to be in finals or at least semi-finals

^^than how come they ended up 3rd? thats still much better than england's and spain's ranking position.

no seriously, when was the last time england and spain were in finals? or at least in semi-finals? and how many times have they won? england won once 40 years ago, and spain never won once

i was talking about Euro Cup as well.

and yes i think germany's team is better than england's and spain's team. if its not (we'll see on WC 2010) i'll be here to eat my crow

I think Brazil will win the World Cup looking at the fact a european nation has never won the tournament outside Europe and because I don't rate the other the other non europeans chances. Spain are the best equipped euro nation because they have world class players in every position plus strength in depth.

Germany do seem to over-achieve as Kowenicki put whereas England under-achieve. We have big name, big game stars yet when it comes to the National side they are disorganised and inconsistant whereas Germany have unity. That counts for a lot. Wish our guys had it.

It could be that Germany's players aren't paraded at every big event on TV like prima-donas so don't have the world wide recognition that players from England, Italy, Spain, portugal and Brazil have but have every bit the skill.

I would not count them out for a second. A team that plays as a team will always punch above their weight.

On paper, England have the squad to win the World Cup, definately and Germany's squad looks like it shouldn't even get close. However, as one of my mates loves to say "Football is played on grass, not paper"

Yep. Englands inconsistancy a seemingly inability to gel as a cohiesive unit counters their players individual skill level. On paper we've had the team to win multiple world cups but like you said "Football is played on astro-turf, not paper"

Germany play as a team. That is their biggest strength.

It might also be worth remembering that actually Germany are higher than us on the FIFA rankings.

1 Spain 1627 UEFA
2 Brazil 1568 CONMEBOL
3 Netherlands 1288 UEFA
4 Italy 1209 UEFA
5 Portugal 1176 UEFA
6 Germany 1173 UEFA
7 France 1117 UEFA
8 Argentina 1085 CONMEBOL
9 England 1076 UEFA
10 Croatia 1042 UEFA
11 Cameroon 1035 CAF
12 Russia 1026 UEFA
13 Greece 1016 UEFA
14 United States 980 CONCACAF
15 Chile 936 CONMEBOL
16 Côte d'Ivoire 934 CAF
17 Mexico 931 CONCACAF
18 Switzerland 924 UEFA
19 Serbia 916 UEFA
20 Uruguay 909 CONMEBOL

My prediction of either Spain or Brazil is looking more likely!

I don't see Spain doing well. Can't say why just don't.

*Cough* England 5-1 Germany *cough cough*

Oh, and 2-1 to England just over a year ago too .

I don't doubt Germany could beat England in a match, but I doubt it would be 5-0 and i serous doubt it would be "easy".