Arius Dion said: theprof00 said: Arius Dion said: FamousRingo's post: Full of Win. prof00's post: Full of something else. Interesting take on the metaphor. Wii first party games: full of win Wii third party games: Full of something else     I think you're post is probably the best metaphor, because people look down on the third party games even though they are the same.  First I gotta say, I'm glad you were cool enough not to be offended by my choice of words, it was meant to be a joke but some times intent on the internet is lost. So props for that. But in no way shape or form are third party games on Wii matching in any way Nintendo's own offerings. There are exceptions, but very few (Monster Hunter 3 and.....? Now I don't believe this is just a matter of Nintendo being head and shoulders above them (though one could make an argument for that) because third parties have shown they can make fantastic games equal (or greater) to that of Nintendo themselves. They just haven't done so on Wii.

 

Arius Dion said: theprof00 said: Arius Dion said: FamousRingo's post: Full of Win. prof00's post: Full of something else. Interesting take on the metaphor. Wii first party games: full of win Wii third party games: Full of something else     I think you're post is probably the best metaphor, because people look down on the third party games even though they are the same.  First I gotta say, I'm glad you were cool enough not to be offended by my choice of words, it was meant to be a joke but some times intent on the internet is lost. So props for that. But in no way shape or form are third party games on Wii matching in any way Nintendo's own offerings. There are exceptions, but very few. Now I don't believe this is just a matter of Nintendo being head and shoulders above them (though one could make an argument for that) because third parties have shown they can make fantastic games equal (or greater) to that of Nintendo themselves.

:P

I just think there are a lot of great third party games on the wii that are making devs nervous. I'd make a list but I gtg atm.

Just quickly

muramasa

silent hill

etc etc

theprof00 said: theRepublic said: theprof00 said: Arius Dion said: FamousRingo's post: Full of Win. prof00's post: Full of something else. Interesting take on the metaphor. Wii first party games: full of win Wii third party games: Full of something else     I think you're post is probably the best metaphor, because people look down on the third party games even though they are the same. Stop it.  You are just being deliberately obtuse. Yes, that is the exact metaphor for people who criticize the third party games.

Name five third party games I would like on the Wii

Before anyone claims it's only the core, the enthusiasts who suffer from a lack of support, that's not exactly true. The major droughts for the Wii happened in late 08, and through 2009 (mostly early 09). I have charts of Wii YoY comparisons throughout those two years, and the visible declines in Wii momentum correspond with those droughts (with a little lag), they appear as large troughs in the graph.

The Wii userbase in general suffers from this. Nintendo failed in late 08 with their two big games, and there wasn't any big third party games to pick up the slack as could be expected on the over two year old market leader in 2009.

The whiners are the crappy developers who cry about their crappy sales for their half assed efforts for the wii. Then they blame nintendo for their failures. These are independent studios's blaming nintendo. Thats ridiculous
And the lazy nintendo comments
They put lots of efforts in Galaxy and sold 8-9 mil
They develop want people really want NSMB and have blown up the sales and are called lazy

Carl2291 said: guiduc said: BladeOfGod said: they are just jealous cuz they're not getting Batman AA, RE5, DMC4, Bioshock, MW2 ( maybe in 2014 ), AC 2, Bayonetta and lots of other awesome 3rd party games Could you stop trolling here? If you were in that situation, maybe you too you would be angry. We just don't get the games we deserve. We can only count on Nintendo, unfortunately. That's the thing though. Why do you automatically "deserve" those games? Because of the Wii sales? No, you don't. You guys cheer when games like Carnival Games sell a load. When Cabella's Big Game Hunter is outselling other big games. When Just Dance is selling a ton. Do you think the developers don't see these sales that you see? When a quality 3rd party "core" game struggles to hit a million in sales on the Wii, but then when a party minigame compilation manages to sell 4 times as much (and probably for a much cheaper budget)... You really think the developers will continue to go the "core" route, and spend tons of money, when they can go the "casual" route and make a quick bundle of cash from some minigame collection? Nintendo, more than anyone are to blame for the lack of "quality" 3rd party support on Wii. Due to how the machine has been advertised, and the audience it has attracted. It's a win/lose situation. Win, because the machine sells a ton every week. Lose, because it isn't getting those franchises the fans are obviously wanting. Even then, Nintendo could bring them to the Wii if they really wanted to. They have more money than you or i could shake a stick at. Look at what Sony and Microsoft have been willing to do this gen just to gain a tiny bit of exclusive content. If Ninty really wanted the support for the fans, they could get it.

LOL. Installed base has always been the argument for why major games go to a market leader, this gen is the exception (and maybe the NES gen as well to a similar degree) which begs the question. I don't see how Nintendo is at all to blame for third parties' offerings, third parties are their own entity and this is business. I'm not a fan of money hatting any way and neither it seems is Nintendo. But please name for me a quality 3rd party core game that has struggled to reach a million? (I guess we aren't even considering dev costs at this point right?)

There are consequences for not supporting the market leader, all these companies posting losses is the result of these decisions. Also the whole "throw a mini game and call it a day" has seemed to have backfired on Ubisoft..but I suppose that's also Nintendo's fault?

Carl2291 said: guiduc said: BladeOfGod said: they are just jealous cuz they're not getting Batman AA, RE5, DMC4, Bioshock, MW2 ( maybe in 2014 ), AC 2, Bayonetta and lots of other awesome 3rd party games Could you stop trolling here? If you were in that situation, maybe you too you would be angry. We just don't get the games we deserve. We can only count on Nintendo, unfortunately. That's the thing though. Why do you automatically "deserve" those games? Because of the Wii sales? No, you don't. You guys cheer when games like Carnival Games sell a load. When Cabella's Big Game Hunter is outselling other big games. When Just Dance is selling a ton. Do you think the developers don't see these sales that you see? When a quality 3rd party "core" game struggles to hit a million in sales on the Wii, but then when a party minigame compilation manages to sell 4 times as much (and probably for a much cheaper budget)... You really think the developers will continue to go the "core" route, and spend tons of money, when they can go the "casual" route and make a quick bundle of cash from some minigame collection? Nintendo, more than anyone are to blame for the lack of "quality" 3rd party support on Wii. Due to how the machine has been advertised, and the audience it has attracted. It's a win/lose situation. Win, because the machine sells a ton every week. Lose, because it isn't getting those franchises the fans are obviously wanting. Even then, Nintendo could bring them to the Wii if they really wanted to. They have more money than you or i could shake a stick at. Look at what Sony and Microsoft have been willing to do this gen just to gain a tiny bit of exclusive content. If Ninty really wanted the support for the fans, they could get it.

Flawed argument you have there for a variety of reasons, first off name a third party Wii title that isn't niche and on the same pedestal as the likes of Tekken, DMC and so on. Secondly MS and Sony can foot blowing money on exclusives because they have income coming in from else where had these two been solely gaming companies they would of been worse off then Sega from years ago. If you had been paying attention Nintendo does pay attention to good third party games as they will be the publishers for MH3 and DQX, nothing to do with how the machine is advertized and mainly to do with that there being not much to advertize but scraps and Wii owners are smart enough to see through it, only Capcom imo seem to be genuinely trying now.

theprof00 said: theRepublic said: theprof00 said: Arius Dion said: FamousRingo's post: Full of Win. prof00's post: Full of something else. Interesting take on the metaphor. Wii first party games: full of win Wii third party games: Full of something else     I think you're post is probably the best metaphor, because people look down on the third party games even though they are the same. Stop it.  You are just being deliberately obtuse. Yes, that is the exact metaphor for people who criticize the third party games.

That's not a metaphor.

theprof00 said: Arius Dion said: theprof00 said: Arius Dion said: FamousRingo's post: Full of Win. prof00's post: Full of something else. Interesting take on the metaphor. Wii first party games: full of win Wii third party games: Full of something else     I think you're post is probably the best metaphor, because people look down on the third party games even though they are the same.  First I gotta say, I'm glad you were cool enough not to be offended by my choice of words, it was meant to be a joke but some times intent on the internet is lost. So props for that. But in no way shape or form are third party games on Wii matching in any way Nintendo's own offerings. There are exceptions, but very few. Now I don't believe this is just a matter of Nintendo being head and shoulders above them (though one could make an argument for that) because third parties have shown they can make fantastic games equal (or greater) to that of Nintendo themselves. :P I just think there are a lot of great third party games on the wii that are making devs nervous. I'd make a list but I gtg atm. Just quickly muramasa silent hill etc etc

Okay, now see here is where I think you and myself (and probably many others opinions differ) These titles you bring up are doing similar or better numbers than comparable games on other platforms. Silent Hill Homecoming did what compared to Shattered Memories? Muramasa did what compared to say Odin Sphere? Madworld did what compared to God Hand? These aren't blockbuster, high calibur titles no matter what platform they are on. But look at a Monster Hunter 3 and compare that to other console versions and look what happens. Watch what DQX does on Wii for example. The other thing I find funny is that when a game flops on the HD consoles its because "the game sucked" but when it flops on Wii its "proof blankity blanks can't sell on Wii" I garauntee you if a main line RE was on Wii in the vein of 4 it'd be a M+ seller. What would happen to Dead Space 2 on HD consoles if EA announced it to be a rail shooter? LoL.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

This was first posted April 1, 2008. Progress Schmogress.