S.T.A.G.E. said:
Akvod said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Torillian said: Akvod's right, the game is most clearly an adventure game from what we've seen regardless of what David Cage says. Developers can be wrong, and unless the full game is far different from what we've seen I would say Heavy Rain fits quite comfortably in the Adventure genre. it's like a point and click mystery game made for consoles and that would definitely be the adventure genre. |
I like Akvod, but he's still wrong. David Cage spelled it out....he didn't just talk. He explained what makes it different from an adventure game.
Heavy Rain is often referred to as an adventure game. How do you feel about the application of that genre title to the game? In what ways is it appropriate or inappropriate?- Game Informer to David Cage
"Adventure games are a very clearly defined genre based on established mechanics: exploration, inventory management, puzzles and dialogue choices. There is generally a focus on story and characters with a very slow pacing and cut scenes to make the narrative move forward, generally in a quite linear way.
Based on this definition, Heavy Rain is NOT an adventure game. There is no inventory in the game, no object to combine or examine, no puzzle, the game does not rely on everlasting dialogues. The story is told through players' actions and not through cutscenes, and players' actions have significant consequences on the narrative. Last but not least, Heavy Rain offers a diversity of situations and gameplay, as well as some spectacular action sequences."- David Cage
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>.< Why can you not fucking listen, stop pointing to David Cage. Like I said over and over, David Cage isn't infallible and isn't the end all be all.
I disagree that inventory is a fundamental part of adventure games. I can imagine an adventure game without an inventory. In fact, like I showed before, Visual Novels, a sub genre of adventure games, doesn't have an inventory (although there are some that do).
To me an adventure game is simply playing an adventure. The exploration doesn't have to encompass a huge world, but could be as simple as a small police department or house. The game has dialogue, and I don't know what an "Ever lasting dialogue" is.
The game has puzzles, just not traditional ones. The puzzle is how to handle a situation, if you personally want to get a certain outcome. The only thing is that the game doesn't give you an goal. But I'm sure that most of us aren't playing to suicide the player, get caught, and just choosing choices randomly. With our internal goals, I think that the game offers a really cool gameplay based on common sense and quick thinking like in Indigo Prophecy.
*sigh*
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See, I get what you're saying with visual novels. Your explanation of an adventure game...well...is off. Certain objects are prescribed for you to look at, you press the interactive button and it interacts. Cage said the game gives you choices and once you make the decisions and it affects the story without disrupting characterization. In the battles when you do the hit or miss button match it helps or seals the fate of your person. Theres no real work for you to do in this game. Yes akvod you are right and Cage is wrong.
Right now, Quantic Dream is the only developer making games in this style, focused so intently on story and character. Why do you think more developers haven’t attempted it?
"Our industry is entirely focused since its creation on creating games for kids and teenagers. What this audience wants is simple instant fun with guns, cars and explosions. Some video games managed to make incredible things based on this paradigm and it is today the most secure choice on a financial standpoint for a publisher.
Quantic (and Sony)’s bet on Heavy Rain is to say that there is another emerging market of young adults and adults looking for a different type of interactive experiences based on a different paradigm: they want experiences that are journeys and not series of obstacles, that bear meaning and emotion and not only adrenaline, that explores other themes closer to cinema or literature, but that are fully interactive and visually stunning."
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Err... aren't there are a ton of interactive objects? Especially in the father one, but so in both the agent and detective one (and sorta in the makeup one). I haven't seen any other videos for fear of spoilers though.
There is real work to do in the game. The only problem is that there's no objective source of a goal (no goal given to you by the game). But, if our goal is to get out of the house unseen, we interact with objects and think strategicly. If our goal is get killed we do what needs to be done. Etc. So if you want your character to surive, or some outcome to occur in the story you do have to think about it and do stuff (work).
No, Quantic Dream isn't the only developer making games in this style, focused so intenly on story and character. I've yet the time to play visual novels from other companies besides Type Moon, but VNs focused nearly all of their energy on story and character.
And I can give a shit less about the industry, what Cage says, and all the other shit you're saying, because they're completely IRRELEVANT.
Look, you're complicating the matter so much unnecessarily.
You've yet to answer my two fucking questions. Just two. You don't have to write an essay or whatever. STOP QUOTING CAGE and tell me what YOU think.
1) What are the CRUCIAL, FOUNDATIONAL properties of an adventure game.
2) Does Heavy Rain stand up to the definition of an adventure game.
Just make a short list (remember, these are the MUST HAVE stuff, so it should be a small list). Then highlight the ones that Heavy Rain doesn't have.
Here's Wikipedia to give you some inspiration:
Text adventure
Text adventures, also known as Interactive Fiction, convey the game's story through passages of text, revealed to the player in response to typed instructions. Early text adventures, such as Adventure and Scott Adams' games, used a simple verb-noun parser to interpret these instructions, allowing the player to interact with objects at a basic level, for example by typing "get key" or "open door". Later text adventures, and modern interactive fiction, can interpret far more complex sentences.
[edit] Graphic adventure
Graphic adventures are adventure games that use graphics to convey the environment to the player. Games under the graphic adventure banner may have a variety of input types, from text parsers to touch screen interfaces.
Point-and-click adventures are a common type of graphic adventure in which the player uses a pointer, typically a mouse, to interact with the environment and solve puzzles. This input method remains popular in the genre, and is well-suited to interaction with the environment, as opposed to direct control schemes which emphasize character control.
[edit] Puzzle adventure
Puzzle adventures are adventure games that put a strong emphasis on puzzle solving, at the expense of elements such as item gathering, item use, character interaction, or plot. Instead, they typically emphasize exploration and deciphering the proper use of complex mechanisms, often resembling Rube Goldberg machines.
The plot of these games can be obscure, and may be conveyed only through interaction with the puzzles. Many puzzle adventures are played from a first person perspective with the player "moving" between still pre-rendered 3D images, sometimes combined with short animations or video. Examples of the genre include Schizm, Atlantis: The Lost Tales, Riddle of the Sphinx, Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure, and Myst, which pioneered this game style.
One kind of puzzle adventure is the Escape the room sub-genre, consisting of short games where the sole object is to find a way to escape from a room. These games are typically implemented in a graphic point-and-click style, which (owing to their popularity on the Internet) are often delivered in Adobe Flash format. Examples of the sub-genre include Submachine-series, Mystery of time and space and Crimson room.
[edit] Visual novel
Main article:
Visual novel
An image of a
visual novel: Visual novels are commonly characterized with dialog boxes and
sprites denoting the speaker.
A visual novel (ビジュアルノベル, bijuaru noberu?) is an adventure game featuring mostly static graphics, usually with anime-style art. As the name might suggest, they resemble mixed-media novels or tableau vivant stage plays. Visual novels are especially prevalent in Japan, where they make up nearly 70% of PC games released.[39] They are rarely produced for video game consoles, but the more popular games are sometimes ported to systems such as the Dreamcast or the PlayStation 2. The market for visual novels outside of Japan, however, is limited.
Visual novels overlap with Japanese adventure games in many ways, including a menu-based interface for all navigation and interaction, reminiscent of ICOM games. Japanese adventure games very seldom feature on-screen avatars or inventory based puzzles in general, and visual novels have an even further diminished emphasis on puzzles, or indeed gameplay. Instead these titles are driven by narrative, focusing almost exclusively on character interaction, in a structure similar to a Choose Your Own Adventure story.
Visual novels frequently feature romantic storylines in which the main character may end up with one of several possible mates. This premise is similar to dating sims, but they are distinct from them in that they lack stats-based sim elements in which the player builds up his character, instead relying on simple choices of dialog, actions, or navigation.
Visual novels have been a staple of PC software sales in Japan and other East Asian countries for over a decade, so much so that popular titles are open ported to consoles, and some even have manga and anime based upon them; such titles include Kanon (1999), Air (2000), Kimi ga Nozomu Eien (2001), Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (2002), Clannad (2004) and Fate/stay night (2004).
Visual novels are sometimes called "dating sims" in the West, because many visual novels track statistics that the player must build in order to advance the plot. This is also because many visual novels permit a variety of endings, allowing more dynamic reactions to the player's actions than a typical linear adventure plot. The cultural differences between Western and Japanese adventure games are closely related to those in role-playing games, such as the storyline being more linear and tightly-scripted in the latter.