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Forums - Sony Discussion - Your technical opinion on Blu-Ray and the Cell as found in the PS3

 

Your technical opinion on Blu-Ray and the Cell as found in the PS3

Both Cell and Blu-Ray hav... 359 64.80%
 
The Cell has been beneficial, but Blu-Ray not 13 2.35%
 
Blu-Ray has been beneficial, but not the Cell 100 18.05%
 
Neither Blu-Ray nor the Cell are beneficial 36 6.50%
 
PS3 "a waste of everybody's time" 19 3.43%
 
Blu-Ray and Cell are useless for gaming 27 4.87%
 
Total:554
dahuman said:
Rainbird said:
dahuman said:
Rainbird said:
KBG29 said:
I do not get why people keep bringing up multiplatform games. If that is the area of concern then of course the Cell and Blu-ray was a waste of time. No multiplatform dev so far has had the balls to tell MS, we are making this game PS3 first and scaling back to you console. The PS3 always gets the shaft. I know that this is because of the sales, and it was the same way with the original Xbox vs the PS2. Last gen Xbox versions should have blown away PS2 versions, but all you got was better anitailiasing, and framerate.

Now as far as the PS3 versions being worse. That is very 2007. In the last two years, it has been to close to call. Most games look identical besides colors, with a pretty even split for games looking better on one platform over the other.

Going into the future, things should continue to get better for PS3 on this front. Sony knows that devs will not take the time to learn to program for the PS3, and they have been very generous in giving out all of there tricks. Gurillia, Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Sony Santa Monica have all been completly open with 3rd parties. As the PS3 continues to sell, and Sony becomes profitable, they may even be able to lend dev power to certain studios to make true PS3 versions of there games. Stuff like Madden, and Call of Duty would be great with a true PS3 version that could be ported down to 360. However I don't see PS3 being fully taken advantage of until we have next gen consoles on the market, that all use HD formats for content.

The area of concern is gaming on the PS3 as a whole, and a majority of the games released on it are multiplatform games. And even in many recent games, the PS3 version will be slightly worse than the 360 versions. DiRT 2, NFS:Shift, II-2 Sturmovik, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed 2 and Modern Warfare 2 are just some of the recent games that have a slight edge on the 360.

It's not about balls to stand up to Microsoft, it's about resources, and making a great looking game requires less resources to do on the 360 than on the PS3. That's just reality.

actually, most of the games you have mentioned pretty much look the same outside of different style of AA. woudln't exactly call them having slight edge, was more dev choice, and people forgetting to turn super white and 0-255 color range on while using HDMI cables on the PS3 lol..... geniuses.

Not really, all of those games have more frametearing on the PS3 while most of them will also drop more frames on the PS3. Not necessarily a big difference, but it gives an edge to the 360 versions no less.

screen tearing is only really a problem on shitty TVs, which does remind me, would it kill them to just have vsync on? like wtf cell is so hard to work with that you can't limit the FPS to 60 or lower, now that, is lazy.

Well, that requires power. Some titles will drop v-sync to maintain framerate, others won't. The PS3 version of RE5 doesn't drop v-sync, and so has no screentearing, but has some shifty performance with the framerate taking a hit under heavy load. The 360 version does the opposite and thus has more frametearing, but maintains 30 FPS.



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Rainbird said:
dahuman said:
Rainbird said:
dahuman said:
Rainbird said:
KBG29 said:
I do not get why people keep bringing up multiplatform games. If that is the area of concern then of course the Cell and Blu-ray was a waste of time. No multiplatform dev so far has had the balls to tell MS, we are making this game PS3 first and scaling back to you console. The PS3 always gets the shaft. I know that this is because of the sales, and it was the same way with the original Xbox vs the PS2. Last gen Xbox versions should have blown away PS2 versions, but all you got was better anitailiasing, and framerate.

Now as far as the PS3 versions being worse. That is very 2007. In the last two years, it has been to close to call. Most games look identical besides colors, with a pretty even split for games looking better on one platform over the other.

Going into the future, things should continue to get better for PS3 on this front. Sony knows that devs will not take the time to learn to program for the PS3, and they have been very generous in giving out all of there tricks. Gurillia, Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Sony Santa Monica have all been completly open with 3rd parties. As the PS3 continues to sell, and Sony becomes profitable, they may even be able to lend dev power to certain studios to make true PS3 versions of there games. Stuff like Madden, and Call of Duty would be great with a true PS3 version that could be ported down to 360. However I don't see PS3 being fully taken advantage of until we have next gen consoles on the market, that all use HD formats for content.

The area of concern is gaming on the PS3 as a whole, and a majority of the games released on it are multiplatform games. And even in many recent games, the PS3 version will be slightly worse than the 360 versions. DiRT 2, NFS:Shift, II-2 Sturmovik, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed 2 and Modern Warfare 2 are just some of the recent games that have a slight edge on the 360.

It's not about balls to stand up to Microsoft, it's about resources, and making a great looking game requires less resources to do on the 360 than on the PS3. That's just reality.

actually, most of the games you have mentioned pretty much look the same outside of different style of AA. woudln't exactly call them having slight edge, was more dev choice, and people forgetting to turn super white and 0-255 color range on while using HDMI cables on the PS3 lol..... geniuses.

Not really, all of those games have more frametearing on the PS3 while most of them will also drop more frames on the PS3. Not necessarily a big difference, but it gives an edge to the 360 versions no less.

screen tearing is only really a problem on shitty TVs, which does remind me, would it kill them to just have vsync on? like wtf cell is so hard to work with that you can't limit the FPS to 60 or lower, now that, is lazy.

Well, that requires power. Some titles will drop v-sync to maintain framerate, others won't. The PS3 version of RE5 doesn't drop v-sync, and so has no screentearing, but has some shifty performance with the framerate taking a hit under heavy load. The 360 version does the opposite and thus has more frametearing, but maintains 30 FPS.

talking about this actually is pissing me off about multiplats and the way it works right now, they can't push the PS3 because the 360 can't push the actual visual quality and PS3 is harder to work with and requires more budget, so then they go with 360 first, then do shitty ass ports, when they should just do PS3 first, get it running correctly, then port it down to the easier to dev 360 and the problem is solved, but they are prolly not gonna do that because it makes too much sense.



99% of all games made for HD consoles look and run worse on PS3.

Last in sales this generation.

$5 billion in the hole

All of it's exclusives visually toppled by Crysis 2 on 360.

If it's not Cell and Blu-Ray and it's not the devs, it's gotta be the worst power cable in history.



@ RAZurrection

When was Crysis 2 released?



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

MikeB said:

@ mibuokami

So bottom line is, by sticking with a more traditional architecture for the PS3, consumer would have enjoyed significantly better early ports, eliminate horror story such as Bayonetta


Is the port really that bad?

I played the demos, the game seemed to run just fine. Either way, it game-wise did not appeal to me at all. I am looking so much more forward to God of War 3.

Judging from the videos both versions look rather similar, if the PS3 version is really horrible in comparison, I wonder what any HD console to Wii port would be viewed as.

Generally speaking both version of a game for any review website is given the same score despite some slight disparity, example such as Assassin Creed 2 which suffer more screen tearing and inferior framerate and Street Fighter IV which had no AA in the PS3 version. These are consider minor variable to most people, only a minority will notice the difference.

With Bayonetta however, the difference is staggering. I'll link you to digital foundry which has a critic up about the framerate issue and screen tearing: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-bayonetta-demo-showdown-blog-entry

There is also issues with overall graphic performance, slow-down, long and excessive load time etc... it was so bad in fact that IGN gave the 360 version a 9.5 and the PS3 version a 8.2, a massive contrast in score for essentially the same game bogged down with performance issues.

Edit: Also HD to Wii port aren't generally viewed in the same light as there is a clear performance limitation on Nintendo's console. It the same with say... Dragon Age Origin, where everyone expect the PC version to outperform its console cousin because it is expected.




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Well I am done playing this game for now. I will end with saying this. As an owner of both the Xbox 360, and the PS3 I know which one has more impressive games. I have spent 1000's of hours on each system over the last 3+ years, and I like them both. However, when you go head to head with games that were built directly for each system PS3 is the clear cut winner, across the board. From my experiance there is only 2 360 titles that match the feel of PS3 games, and thats Gears 1 & 2. Halo, Forza, Fable, Mass Effect, and L4D are not in the same league as Uncharted, Killzone, GT5:P, Ratchet & Clank, and Metal Gear Solid. Not in Gameplay. Not immersivness, and surly not in presentation.

Now back to playing Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

Bladeforce said: Go back to the amiga and ST days everybody knew the amiga was better butit got so many crap ports from the ST because it had a much easier processor and less costly.

So often people forget about the past and for example repeat the same old mistakes as made by ST fans during the 80s. Yes, the Amiga was more complex due to being much more advanced at the time (a very advanced multi-processing design). But as the PS3 has great 1st party support I think the PC platform hurts the most from the 360 (many top Microsoft games like Halo 3, Fable 2 and Gears 2 not appearing on PC, hugely sacrificed game design compared to what the PC is really capable of like fewer online multi-player abilities in a game like Modern Warfare 2).

One thing limiting the Amiga 500 technically the most was the lack of storage, compare for instance a top title like Defender of the Crown on the Amiga 500 on diskette vs Defender of the Crown 2 on CD running on A500 level hardware (much better graphics and audio).

Once the ST started to die, most developers really Amiga started to show off the technology. I think likely this will happen again when the PS3 moves past the 360's install base.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

I believe the Sony Playstation 3 Computer Entertainment System is a very powerful beast.

Within the next year or two we are going to see games that completely showcase how powerful the system is.

God of War 3 and Heavy Rain being two of them. Uncharted 2 already raised the bar also.



Odd. Future. Wolf. Gang. Kill. Em. All. OFWGKTA Don't give a fuck!

Fuck Steve Harvey. FREE EARL!

Final Fantasy Versus XIII will be the GREATEST game EVER made!!!

I'd take a bullet for Square-Enix! 

 

iLLmaticV3 said:
I believe the Sony Playstation 3 Computer Entertainment System is a very powerful beast.

Within the next year or two we are going to see games that completely showcase how powerful the system is.

God of War 3 and Heavy Rain being two of them. Uncharted 2 already raised the bar also.

Luckily with technology belief is minimized.  And it's a fact that they could have had the same power in a chip that didn't piss everyone off. 

I own a ps3 and I would be so pissed to program for it.  I linked phrack - oh yeah, most video gamers have an illusion of technical knowledge supported by buzzwords.  The fact is in order execution cores like those in the xbox or ps3 strain developers enough.  Having to further optimize code over 6 processors makes optimization needlessly complex. 

In my comp hardware course years ago a student asked the prof if he should write something in a convoluted manner that saved a little bit of programming time.  The prof immediately told him that he should write it clearly and the compiler would optimize it.  Writing it clearly was much more valuable for the next guy who worked on it and the complier takes care of the minor optimization. 

Turns out this gen of consoles threw out the common assumptions programmers have made for years and placed a larger burden of optimizing command orders on them.  Then Sony further screws developers by making a parallel processor so complicated it's horrific.  I love my ps3 but I would hate programming it.  The reason multiplats suffer is only developer studios that Sony throws money at can afford to waste their time figuring it out.

And they could have just put a faster x86 chip in there instead.  Perhaps more than 512mb of ram (this limitation is why the console versions of oblivion have unarmored horses while it's present on the PC).  Or a better GPU.  And it would have run just as well if not better!  For the price of the launch ps3 you could have built a mid-high end gaming pc that murdered it!

Hey look, exclusive developers sony throws money at make great games.  Those multiplat guys might be able to keep up if they could afford spending extra time and effort on overly complicated development for the cell.  Who would waste their time like that to reach a smaller market than either of the two other consoles?  Sony's arrogance this gen is appalling.



CGI-Quality said:
CommonMan said:
HappySqurriel said:

The PS3 was released a year after the XBox 360, cost $100/$200 more than the XBox 360 to buy, and Sony was still losing hundreds of dollars to manufacture the system, and after developers have spent over 4 years working on the system the benefits over the XBox 360 are minimal; and the XBox 360 still regularly receives the better version of games because how unsuited the Cell processor is to game development.

Within 2 years the next generation will begin and soon after all three manufacturers will have systems with real-world performance that greatly surpasses the XBox 360 and PS3; and rapidly support from third party publishers to create quality games for these systems will disappear. Most of the games which continue to be released will be the occasional sports game and licensed tie-in which will (mostly) be developed by inferior teams within inferior studios. Or to put it another way, the best the PS3 has to offer in game has already been seen ...

 

Now, if you want to see how much of a mistake the Cell processor was and how pointless Blu-Ray was compare the advantage a year gave the PS3 to the advantage a year gave the Gamecube and XBox over the PS2; and neither of those systems cost nearly as much to manufacture as the PS3 cost Sony.

You and your well-written, well thought out posts Happy Squrriel.

Well written and thoughout, perhaps. Completely factual, not quite.

Rather than sniping at him you know you could post a response rather than skirting the side of flaming/trolling.



Tease.