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Forums - Nintendo - Igarashi: DS the only platform in which it's acceptable to publish 2-D games

burgerstein on 15 December 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
burgerstein said:
Avinash, why do you assume Nintendo only has the capacity to make a small amount of games, and can never increase that capacity? 2D Mario and 2D Metroid may be more diverisfied than 2D and 3D Mario, but both 2D and 3D of Mario and Metroid is more diversified and more profitable than either of those situations. There's no good reason they can't pump out a 2D Mario every year as well as making a 3D Mario every 3 years.

But the issue is, that they have a limited capacity, that's the point, as we can clearly see they can't make every game, which is why games get farmed out like Other M, and games take years to come out, so the issue then becomes what is the most efficient way to use the capacity they do have, and that is to cut out 3D or use it very sparingly and utilize 2D more.

 

Sure if they had unlimited capacity, then yeah make hundreds of different types of games, 2D, 3D whatever, but they can't


But they can! You just said games get farmed out, which means they can make more games. It's not like Nintendo can't hire more people with their billions of dollars. They'd be fools to make only 2D games.



"Now, a fun game should always be easy to understand - you should be able to take one look at it and know what you have to do straight away. It should be so well constructed that you can tell at a glance what your goal is and, even if you don’t succeed, you’ll blame yourself rather than the game. Moreover, the people standing around watching the game have also got to be able to enjoy it." - Shiggy

A Koopa's Revenge II gameplay video

Around the Network
Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
You know what? I'm done. You've already made up your mind and no amount of facts or logic will ever change it. Enjoy your delusions.

You've not shown any logic or facts, all you've said is diversity and make both, ignoring that 2D can be even more diverse, and cheaper and less time consuming, and it won't fail, as Gameboy and DS have proved, so what is your supporting argument, even your idea that 3D sells more is only based on one game, lol, a game that came out more than 10 years ago and whose 3D successors haven't been able to match.

money money money money profit profit profit profit

gosh, thank god devs don't think like you all the time, the industry wouldn't move forward!


  So the losses of most of the third parties is them moving forward?

So making 2D games & MW clones (which WILL bring profits) is moving forward?

I am a gamer avinash, not a shareholder

I know whats moving forward for me

MW2 cost almost 50 million to make and millions more to advertise, now imagine how many 2D games could be made with that, and even if most were moderate successes, and one or two were big successes, you'd still come out ahead.

so what?

I#d prefer a Uncharted 2 & Super Mario Galaxy & Zelda Wii over the hundreds of 2D games that could be made instead

once again, I'm a gamer not a shareholder

I'm also a gamer, and I find that the 2D games are the ones that I come back to much more often than 3D, also you're going to tell me that you wouldn't take a Secret of Mana, Mario RPG, Super Mario, LttP, Master Blaster, etc. over the games you mentioned?



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
burgerstein said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
burgerstein said:
Avinash, why do you assume Nintendo only has the capacity to make a small amount of games, and can never increase that capacity? 2D Mario and 2D Metroid may be more diverisfied than 2D and 3D Mario, but both 2D and 3D of Mario and Metroid is more diversified and more profitable than either of those situations. There's no good reason they can't pump out a 2D Mario every year as well as making a 3D Mario every 3 years.

But the issue is, that they have a limited capacity, that's the point, as we can clearly see they can't make every game, which is why games get farmed out like Other M, and games take years to come out, so the issue then becomes what is the most efficient way to use the capacity they do have, and that is to cut out 3D or use it very sparingly and utilize 2D more.

 

Sure if they had unlimited capacity, then yeah make hundreds of different types of games, 2D, 3D whatever, but they can't


But they can! You just said games get farmed out, which means they can make more games. It's not like Nintendo can't hire more people with their billions of dollars. They'd be fools to make only 2D games.

They can make more games within limits, Iwata has already said they don't want to expand too far because it risks their company culture, and with farming out a game you have to be watchful that it doesn't come out badly and ruin your property, these are concerns for any company, but if you can produce more games, while not worrying about expanding too much or wrecking your properties, wouldn't that be preferred?



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

darthdevidem01 on 15 December 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
You know what? I'm done. You've already made up your mind and no amount of facts or logic will ever change it. Enjoy your delusions.

You've not shown any logic or facts, all you've said is diversity and make both, ignoring that 2D can be even more diverse, and cheaper and less time consuming, and it won't fail, as Gameboy and DS have proved, so what is your supporting argument, even your idea that 3D sells more is only based on one game, lol, a game that came out more than 10 years ago and whose 3D successors haven't been able to match.

money money money money profit profit profit profit

gosh, thank god devs don't think like you all the time, the industry wouldn't move forward!


  So the losses of most of the third parties is them moving forward?

So making 2D games & MW clones (which WILL bring profits) is moving forward?

I am a gamer avinash, not a shareholder

I know whats moving forward for me

MW2 cost almost 50 million to make and millions more to advertise, now imagine how many 2D games could be made with that, and even if most were moderate successes, and one or two were big successes, you'd still come out ahead.

so what?

I#d prefer a Uncharted 2 & Super Mario Galaxy & Zelda Wii over the hundreds of 2D games that could be made instead

once again, I'm a gamer not a shareholder

I'm also a gamer, and I find that the 2D games are the ones that I come back to much more often than 3D, also you're going to tell me that you wouldn't take a Secret of Mana, Mario RPG, Super Mario, LttP, Master Blaster, etc. over the games you mentioned?

ROFLMAO

Super Mario Galaxy & Uncharted 2 are WAYYYYYYYY BETTER than those 2D games you mentioned, if you had said Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country & FF6 you may have had a weak argument.

The only 2D games I am fine with nowadays are the platformers, DS JRPG's & phoenix wright games

Times have changed now, your living in the past, take your nostalgia specs off & enjoy games that are out



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

burgerstein on 15 December 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
They can make more games within limits, Iwata has already said they don't want to expand too far because it risks their company culture, and with farming out a game you have to be watchful that it doesn't come out badly and ruin your property, these are concerns for any company, but if you can produce more games, while not worrying about expanding too much or wrecking your properties, wouldn't that be preferred?


Obviously not because they're not doing it. And making a new Zelda or Mario game every year certainly has the potential to wreck the property.



"Now, a fun game should always be easy to understand - you should be able to take one look at it and know what you have to do straight away. It should be so well constructed that you can tell at a glance what your goal is and, even if you don’t succeed, you’ll blame yourself rather than the game. Moreover, the people standing around watching the game have also got to be able to enjoy it." - Shiggy

A Koopa's Revenge II gameplay video

Around the Network
Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
darthdevidem01 said:

ROFLMAO

Super Mario Galaxy & Uncharted 2 are WAYYYYYYYY BETTER than those 2D games you mentioned, if you had said Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country & FF6 you may have had a weak argument.

The only 2D games I am fine with nowadays are the platformers, DS JRPG's & phoenix wright games

Times have changed now, your living in the past, take your nostalgia specs off & enjoy games that are out

These aren't nostalgia specs, these are specs of truth, and I can honestly tell you that 2D gaming is better, 3D is ok in short bursts, but gets boring, 2D gaming is fun all the time



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
burgerstein said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
They can make more games within limits, Iwata has already said they don't want to expand too far because it risks their company culture, and with farming out a game you have to be watchful that it doesn't come out badly and ruin your property, these are concerns for any company, but if you can produce more games, while not worrying about expanding too much or wrecking your properties, wouldn't that be preferred?


Obviously not because they're not doing it. And making a new Zelda or Mario game every year certainly has the potential to wreck the property.

Well if they stick to 3D they can't.  Less of a concern of wrecking it when they control it, but yes, people have commented on how the 3D zeldas and Marios have gotten stale



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Kasz216 on 15 December 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
You know what? I'm done. You've already made up your mind and no amount of facts or logic will ever change it. Enjoy your delusions.

You've not shown any logic or facts, all you've said is diversity and make both, ignoring that 2D can be even more diverse, and cheaper and less time consuming, and it won't fail, as Gameboy and DS have proved, so what is your supporting argument, even your idea that 3D sells more is only based on one game, lol, a game that came out more than 10 years ago and whose 3D successors haven't been able to match.

money money money money profit profit profit profit

gosh, thank god devs don't think like you all the time, the industry wouldn't move forward!


  So the losses of most of the third parties is them moving forward?

So making 2D games & MW clones (which WILL bring profits) is moving forward?

I am a gamer avinash, not a shareholder

I know whats moving forward for me

Actually, it is darth.

There is no point in moving foward if it means you're walking off a cliff.

I mean... look at the PS3.  What do you think would happen to the videogame industry if everybody kept releasing PS3s?

It'd crash... and no more videogames.

What's healthiest for the videogame market is healthiest for the gamer... because you know... it means more games will exist and be created.

What's healthiest for the market is making what people want to buy.


Of course if they got rid of 3D marios.  My guess is the 2D marios would lose some appeal from constantly being recycled... but hey... 2D games definitly don't get enough play.

 

I mean look at FF6 for example.  Now I know you have to think THAT is better then Mario Galaxy and Uncharted 2.

 

Think about it this way.  Would you rather have 3-4 FF6 like games... or 1 FF13 like game?

 

I'd take the FF6 games myself.



burgerstein on 15 December 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
burgerstein said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
They can make more games within limits, Iwata has already said they don't want to expand too far because it risks their company culture, and with farming out a game you have to be watchful that it doesn't come out badly and ruin your property, these are concerns for any company, but if you can produce more games, while not worrying about expanding too much or wrecking your properties, wouldn't that be preferred?


Obviously not because they're not doing it. And making a new Zelda or Mario game every year certainly has the potential to wreck the property.

Well if they stick to 3D they can't.  Less of a concern of wrecking it when they control it, but yes, people have commented on how the 3D zeldas and Marios have gotten stale


That's because they've been playing them lately. If they switched to 2D only a few years down the line people would be complaining 2D Zeldas and Marios are stale. Nobody complains a type of game is getting stale when nobody's making games of that type.



"Now, a fun game should always be easy to understand - you should be able to take one look at it and know what you have to do straight away. It should be so well constructed that you can tell at a glance what your goal is and, even if you don’t succeed, you’ll blame yourself rather than the game. Moreover, the people standing around watching the game have also got to be able to enjoy it." - Shiggy

A Koopa's Revenge II gameplay video

Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
burgerstein said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
burgerstein said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
They can make more games within limits, Iwata has already said they don't want to expand too far because it risks their company culture, and with farming out a game you have to be watchful that it doesn't come out badly and ruin your property, these are concerns for any company, but if you can produce more games, while not worrying about expanding too much or wrecking your properties, wouldn't that be preferred?


Obviously not because they're not doing it. And making a new Zelda or Mario game every year certainly has the potential to wreck the property.

Well if they stick to 3D they can't.  Less of a concern of wrecking it when they control it, but yes, people have commented on how the 3D zeldas and Marios have gotten stale


That's because they've been playing them lately. If they switched to 2D only a few years down the line people would be complaining 2D Zeldas and Marios are stale. Nobody complains a type of game is getting stale when nobody's making games of that type.

People were making 2D Zeldas and Marios on the Handhelds, no mention of staleness, and in fact, 2D Mario on DS has sold nearly 20 million (and 2D Mario on the Wii may do even better), but the 3D games have shown staleness



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)