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Forums - Nintendo - I can live without the Zelda Overworld Theme Now

SHMUPGurus said:

ll, first of all, I should have said that I don't care about OCRemix. I was mostly talking about the people from DOD (Dwelling of Duels), cause they're the truth (haha, in a way). But yeah, I know that the Internet indicates nothing about a game's popularity... but I never hear people humming Zelda tunes in the bus either!

Second of all, I never said that using .midi files make a song bad. It surely will never be as good as orchestral music though, and there's no way around it. Sound cards will never produce the same guitar sounds compared to the real instrument for example. Sure I'm always disappointed to hear midi songs when we have games like Star Fox Assault, Gears of War and Modern Warfare 2 with amazing orchestral music. Gears of War and Modern Warfare 2's music is dynamic while being orchestrated and it's actually REALLY GOOD, how's that? I admit there are exceptions like Super Mario Galaxy. That game's soundtrack is great!

Third of all, I hardly have any Nintendo songs in my top video game soundtrack lists because no, they don't always use the format well compared to other companies that arrived around the same time as them, especially on the NES. Heck, even their second parties usually make better music than their internal studios! I can list A BUNCH of NES game soundtracks that beat Zelda's, Mario's, etc. Just a tip: Konami and Capcom are gods when we're talking about 8-bit 16-bit music.

I don't care particularly for OCRemix either - I just used them as an example. And as far as DoD is concerned, with some notable exceptions, they usually focus on rock-style vgm since they, you know, mostly do rock covers. I do think the community is rather limited in it's scope in that regard. Still, they did a Zelda month back in 2004 and I don't see why Zelda should feature more frequently than any other series.

As to your second point, I think you misunderstood me. By "dynamic" I meant music that changes based on the player's actions - be that in tempo, instrumentation, pitch or accidental flourishes. You can emulate it with pre-recorded orchestral music, but you can't truly replicate it. Secondly, Mario Galaxy's soundtrack consists primarily of orchestrated pieces with dynamic midi-elements mixed in - as such it is not a good example of a midi-only soundtrack (though there are several songs of that nature) but it is an excellent example of the ongoing evolution and refinement of context-sensitive music in video games. In the future, I have no doubt we will have the best of both worlds.

Third point... No. That's just subjective opinion on your part. Composition aside, Koji Kondo has always been an excellent orchestrator and he arranged for "real" orchestra long before most composers did. And are you telling me Hirokazu Tanaka wasn't one of the most technically proficient composers of the era?



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Khuutra said:
c0rd said:
noname2200 said:
TWRoO said:

Neither have I.

Every one of the few game series I have tried previous 2D versions of have been dissapointments, I imagine I would have loved ALttP had I experienced it back in the early 90s, but not now.

Give it a shot; it holds up incredibly well, far more than the NES and Gameboy versions. Get it on an emulator at least, to see if you'll like it: I suspect you will.

And the NES titles are still awesome! I've been playing them for the first time since I was a kid recently, and I love em (yeah, Zelda II too). Maybe it requires a love for the NES type of games... I thought I grew out of it, but Mega Man 9 clearly showed me otherwise.

I haven't played A Link to the Past in over a decade, so I'll be revisiting that soon, as well. I'm sure I'm in for a treat - love it when I haven't played a classic in forever, it's like a new game all over again.

Confession: I never beat Adventure of Link. Too hard. And that's after beating the original. Yeesh

I thought the second one was easier. I still haven't beaten the first T_T



Damn you Khuutra and Nintendo. Just like the Pokemon remakes, I was not particularly enthusiastic about this game, and just like when I heard the tune for Goldenrod town, my skepticism has been overpowered by music...



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Helios said:

I don't care particularly for OCRemix either - I just used them as an example. And as far as DoD is concerned, with some notable exceptions, they usually focus on rock-style vgm since they, you know, mostly do rock covers. I do think the community is rather limited in it's scope in that regard. Still, they did a Zelda month back in 2004 and I don't see why Zelda should feature more frequently than any other series.

As to your second point, I think you misunderstood me. By "dynamic" I meant music that changes based on the player's actions - be that in tempo, instrumentation, pitch or accidental flourishes. You can emulate it with pre-recorded orchestral music, but you can't truly replicate it. Secondly, Mario Galaxy's soundtrack consists primarily of orchestrated pieces with dynamic midi-elements mixed in - as such it is not a good example of a midi-only soundtrack (though there are several songs of that nature) but it is an excellent example of the ongoing evolution and refinement of context-sensitive music in video games. In the future, I have no doubt we will have the best of both worlds.

Third point... No. That's just subjective opinion on your part. Composition aside, Koji Kondo has always been an excellent orchestrator and he arranged for "real" orchestra long before most composers did. And are you telling me Hirokazu Tanaka wasn't one of the most technically proficient composers of the era?

Yeah, I know. They do monthly competitions based on certain series, but they also do free month competitions. During these months, if there's a Zelda cover, rest assured that the same songs that keep coming back are the themes, Dark World theme from ALTTP or another notable song from one of the games (there's usually one or two songs that stand out more than the others in Zelda games).

Also, I understood your second point completely. That's why I used Gears of War as an example because I believe Epic Games achieved (or at least tried to achieve) this effect pretty well. It seems like it's not only Nintendo that does it and I've seen the movement evolve a lot in HD gaming since this generation. And ah, then I know why SMG's soundtrack is better than the rest.

I never said anything about Koji and Hirokazu. I'm not really interested in what they can do, but I say I'll care about the result! They do great themes that's for sure, and that explains why they're the most recognizable songs out of the game series they've worked on (at the same time, we probably recognize them and appreciate them more because Nintendo's been recycling the same themes over and over again. Ah, nostalgia...!). But if the rest isn't necessarily memorable compared to songs composed by other composers, it's not my fault!

Look, don't get me wrong, I don't hate songs from Nintendo series, in fact I love most of them, but I'm also tired to see games today like New Super Mario Bros. Wii use "archaic" music (if you allow me to put it that way). Let me just say I don't consider the music one of the strong points of the game!



Random game thought :
Why is Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 getting so much hate? We finally get a real game and they're not even satisfied... I'm starting to hate the gaming community so f****** much...

Watch my insane gameplay videos on my YouTube page!

SHMUPGurus said:

Look, don't get me wrong, I don't hate songs from Nintendo series, in fact I love most of them, but I'm also tired to see games today like New Super Mario Bros. Wii use "archaic" music (if you allow me to put it that way). Let me just say I don't consider the music one of the strong points of the game!

This is a fair perspective, whether I agree or no. Be at peace, and troubled no more!



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SHMUPGurus said:

I never said anything about Koji and Hirokazu. I'm not really interested in what they can do, but I say I'll care about the result! They do great themes that's for sure, and that explains why they're the most recognizable songs out of the game series they've worked on (at the same time, we probably recognize them and appreciate them more because Nintendo's been recycling the same themes over and over again. Ah, nostalgia...!). But if the rest isn't necessarily memorable compared to songs composed by other composers, it's not my fault!

I'm glad we've come to an understanding, but before we end this 1) you are aware of the fact that Kondo's tendency to not refurbish his main themes is one of the main topics of discussion in this thread? 2) I dare you to show me a dull non-incidental piece of music from this soundtrack. In fact, do the same for the entire SMB-SM64 line (those being the games Kondo worked on) and see how many duds you find (and again, take note of the lack of a straightforward rendition of the Mario main theme).



...Wha? You want me to do that when I could be studying for my finals? @__@



Random game thought :
Why is Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 getting so much hate? We finally get a real game and they're not even satisfied... I'm starting to hate the gaming community so f****** much...

Watch my insane gameplay videos on my YouTube page!

...Why are you even on this forum, then?



Helios said:

...Why are you even on this forum, then?

On VGChartz? It's 9:30 PM? Besides, it's really rare that I argue with people here. I thought I explained how I see the whole midi thing perfectly well here, but you always seem to add more and more to this "already closed in my mind" discussion.

Also, the real main topic was about how awesome this overworld track in Spirit Tracks was compared to the others. I said that it was good for the game, but it isn't the best overworld theme I've heard. It's you with your posts that started this whole melodic/harmonics elements of music discussion actually and even Khuutra replied to that. To be honest with you, I'd like to end this now if you don't mind? You seem to think that I don't appreciate the works of Kondo or something, and I know you want him to compose for Zelda Wii. Well guess what, me too.



Random game thought :
Why is Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 getting so much hate? We finally get a real game and they're not even satisfied... I'm starting to hate the gaming community so f****** much...

Watch my insane gameplay videos on my YouTube page!

Actually I'm bothered by the fact that I continually seem to catch you in contradictory or untenable positions. You seem to be doing nothing but changing your ground or avoiding the argument altogether, much like you did just now.

With that said, I won't drag this out any longer. Check mate, my good sir.