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Forums - Nintendo - Maelstrom calls Yahtzee out... kind of... sort of... in a subdued way.

LordTheNightKnight on 12 December 2009
Final-Fan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Final-Fan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Vertigo-X said:
Well, I disagree with his assertion that Super Mario 64 is sustaining innovation. With that game, just about everything was changed except for the same basic plot. Gameplay, controls, the levels, and the graphics were all dramatically different from the previous Mario games.

He meant it wasn't disruptive. It seemed to change everything, but as Nintendo fell to a distant second that gen, it was clear Nintendo got disrupted.

Disruptive innovation is successful by definition? 

Also, no, I disagree.  It seems to me that he is clearly basing his reason why those games are "sustaining innovation" based on the games themselves, not how well they do compared to other games.  So it only makes sense that "disruptive innovation" would also be about the approach to the game design.  "Mario 5 goes back almost twenty years towards the gameplay of Super Mario World and Super Mario Brothers 3. The game sheds off the 3d sustaining innovation entirely."  He's not talking about sales here, he's talking about game design. 

Yes. If something isn't dusrupted, then you didn't do a disruption. Nintendo changed the gameplay, but it was simply a way to make the games still bigger and better. Plus it was still going along with the movement of the rest of the gaming companies, which cannot be a disruption either way.

So there is no such thing as a failed disruption?  Or does a failed disruptive innovation get classified as a sustaining innovation? 

As for the rest, I was looking at it as innovating the Mario series, but I can see your point that it didn't disruptively innovate the software scene at the time, except insofar as it pretty much set all kinds of standards for 3D platforming (maybe arguably disrupting what was already out there?). 

If it doesn't work, it's merely an attempt at disruptive innovation. Without the success, the innovation can't happen. It's merely a try. Same with a failed sustaining innovation.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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Final-Fan on 12 December 2009

So, you can't innovate, but have that innovation fail to result in the game being successful?



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

LordTheNightKnight on 12 December 2009
Final-Fan said:
So, you can't innovate, but have that innovation fail to result in the game being successful?

What? I'm talking about the innovation being successful, not the game.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Final-Fan on 12 December 2009
LordTheNightKnight said:
Final-Fan said:
So, you can't innovate, but have that innovation fail to result in the game being successful?

What? I'm talking about the innovation being successful, not the game.

OK, either innovations are classified as "disruptive" or "sustaining" after the fact based on effect, which means his talking about the game design is a bit bullshit, or they are classified based on the approach to game design, which means a "disruptive-type" innovation can be unsuccessful. 

[edit:  On second thought, I'm not totally sure I even know what you mean.  I mean, I know what you're saying, but I'm not sure of the connection between what you're apparently talking about and my dispute of Malstrom's SM64 categorization anymore.  You said the SM64 innovation wasn't disruptive because the N64 got disrupted (or so I thought), but now you say that an innovation's success is NOT measured by the game's success.  SM64 certainly disrupted the old 2D Mario IMO.]



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Kantor on 12 December 2009
alfredofroylan said:
People taking Yahtzee seriously??? That's the problem, he's just a funny guy with an accent, not a serious reviewer ..... well actually there aren't any serious reviewers.

This, except Yahtzee doesn't have an accent. The language is English.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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Final-Fan on 12 December 2009
Kantor said:
alfredofroylan said:
People taking Yahtzee seriously??? That's the problem, he's just a funny guy with an accent, not a serious reviewer ..... well actually there aren't any serious reviewers.

This, except Yahtzee doesn't have an accent. The language is English.

Nobody in England has an accent, gotcha. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Kantor on 12 December 2009
Final-Fan said:
Kantor said:
alfredofroylan said:
People taking Yahtzee seriously??? That's the problem, he's just a funny guy with an accent, not a serious reviewer ..... well actually there aren't any serious reviewers.

This, except Yahtzee doesn't have an accent. The language is English.

Nobody in England has an accent, gotcha. 

Many people in England have accents, mainly people who have lived most of their life outside Britain, and/or speak it as a second/third/fourth language and/or have recently moved to England. But an English accent is not "an accent". You wouldn't say the Queen speaks "accented English", would you?

A Scottish accent, now that is an accent.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Final-Fan on 12 December 2009
Kantor said:
Final-Fan said:
Kantor said:
alfredofroylan said:
People taking Yahtzee seriously??? That's the problem, he's just a funny guy with an accent, not a serious reviewer ..... well actually there aren't any serious reviewers.

This, except Yahtzee doesn't have an accent. The language is English.

Nobody in England has an accent, gotcha. 

Many people in England have accents, mainly people who have lived most of their life outside Britain, and/or speak it as a second/third/fourth language and/or have recently moved to England. But an English accent is not "an accent". You wouldn't say the Queen speaks "accented English", would you?

A Scottish accent, now that is an accent.

The two "standard" dialects, that are often considered to be "no accent", are "BBC English" AKA "The Queen's English" (so you have reason so say she speaks with no accent) and "General American". 

From Wikipedia:  "English speakers have many different accents, which often signal the speaker's native dialect or language. For the more distinctive characteristics of regional accents, see Regional accents of English, and for the more distinctive characteristics of regional dialects, see List of dialects of the English language. Within England, variation is now largely confined to pronunciation rather than grammar or vocabulary. At the time of the Survey of English Dialects, grammar and vocabulary differed across the country, but a process of lexical attrition has led most of this variation to die out."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accents_of_English#England
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_England
"There are many different accents and dialects throughout England"

"The Queen's accent has changed slightly over the years but she still speaks a conservative form of RP."



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Kantor on 12 December 2009
Final-Fan said:
Kantor said:
Final-Fan said:
Kantor said:
alfredofroylan said:
People taking Yahtzee seriously??? That's the problem, he's just a funny guy with an accent, not a serious reviewer ..... well actually there aren't any serious reviewers.

This, except Yahtzee doesn't have an accent. The language is English.

Nobody in England has an accent, gotcha. 

Many people in England have accents, mainly people who have lived most of their life outside Britain, and/or speak it as a second/third/fourth language and/or have recently moved to England. But an English accent is not "an accent". You wouldn't say the Queen speaks "accented English", would you?

A Scottish accent, now that is an accent.

The two "standard" dialects, that are often considered to be "no accent", are "BBC English" AKA "The Queen's English" (so you have reason so say she speaks with no accent) and "General American". 

From Wikipedia:  "English speakers have many different accents, which often signal the speaker's native dialect or language. For the more distinctive characteristics of regional accents, see Regional accents of English, and for the more distinctive characteristics of regional dialects, see List of dialects of the English language. Within England, variation is now largely confined to pronunciation rather than grammar or vocabulary. At the time of the Survey of English Dialects, grammar and vocabulary differed across the country, but a process of lexical attrition has led most of this variation to die out."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accents_of_English#England
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_England
"There are many different accents and dialects throughout England"

"The Queen's accent has changed slightly over the years but she still speaks a conservative form of RP."

Alright, I'll rephrase.

The Queen's English accent is not "accented English". If you go further North, you will hear very accented English accents which are still, technically, English accents.

Cheryl Cole has an accent. Yahtzee does not.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Words Of Wisdom on 12 December 2009

Judging from his comments, I don't think Maelstrom even played half those Mario games.

Also, lol @ Kantor getting owned.