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Forums - Microsoft - Why Xbox 360 is losing appeal to new customers.

nightsurge on 10 December 2009
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
When it's more expensive to play on a console than on a PC, you know something is wrong.

Let me know when that happens, would you? 

Even my PC to maintain detail level of 360 games and including monitor, keyboard, gaming mouse, etc. cost a minimum of $700 when I built it last year.  To keep up with the games, I have upgraded it to an HD4890 and more hard drive space and bought a larger monitor.  Total cost of the PC is now well over $1000.

You are full of crap. You can build a PC for $400 that will eat Xbox 360 for breakfast in terms of graphics. Here's what's wrong with what you said:

- You include the cost of the monitor...uuuuh, why? That's like including the cost of the HDTV in your Xbox 360 costs.

Because you HAVE to have a monitor.  Unless you want to hook it up to your living room TV which most people do not want... plus then you have keyboard and mouse cables or have to buy a wireless setup which costs more and performs worse.

YOU DON'T NEED A MONITOR! You can very well play PC games on an HDTV, the choice exists. More and more people are hooking their PCs on TVs because only now are the TVs able to support higher resolutions. And you don't need wireless for it. Go back to the drawing board.

Ok so take off the monitor.  Still a $450 minimum and you have to know how to build your own computer, which the majority of people do not.  Also, despite what you say, people do not want their desktop computers hooked up to their HDTVs in the living room used for gaming.  Families want that space for TV.  The only PCs often hooked up are HTPCs.  And if you don't use wirless, you have to buy USB extenders or sit really close to your HDTV since mouse cables are only 6ft long.

- You don't need to upgrade to match the graphics of the Xbox 360 (depending on your former GPU). Many of the recent Xbox 360 games are barely above the low settings of it's PC counterparts. GTA IV, for example, the graphics of the xbox 360 version are around the low settings of the PC version (confirmed by rockstar itself).

This is bull.  I have CoD4 on both systems.  Both look almost identical on max settings for the PC version.  Only thing different is the PC has better AA/AF.  You have to be running at least medium settings on most modern games for them to look as good as their console counterpart.

Dude, COD4 is a game that works even on 7 year old PCs. you probably wouldn't even need to upgrade your GPU to play COD4 as good as Xbox 360. Remember though, the Xbox 360 version has only around 640p resolution, which is nearly the lowest res on PC.

Yes, the console version has a lower resolution, but it still has better details, AA, and textures than the PC counterpart at similar resolutions.

- PC games are cheaper. Why are you only comparing the cost of the hardware but not of the software? Just last week you could've bought Mirror's Edge on PC for less than $5, Mass Effect for less than $5, L4D for less than $5, SF4 for less than $20, and god knows how many more games on PC. On average you will probably save almost $20 for each game you buy on PC instead on Xbox 360.

- You forget the cost of the online. It's free and better on PC, while on Xbox 360 you have to pay $50 yearly (or less if you can get a deal). That means you are looking to spend hundreds of dollars just so you can play online.

And the most popular game on PC is $15 a month to play... you have to pay for the experiences you want.  On PC you pay per game (if that game requires a charge), while on XBL it is a flat fee of $50 (or $30-40 in my case) for an entire year for ALL GAMES which also gives you the community features accross all games, party chat, a huge on demand selection, etc.  It's like renting a set top box for just $50 a year plus it provides all those smooth and well integrated features.

Dude, don't you even realise the concept of MMO?!

 

I don't think you have any idea the point I was making?  I only commented on the MMO because it is pay to play even though there are similar free mmo experiences.  You ignored the rest for a reason, me thinks

Another thing, the gaming experience is SUPERIOR ON PC.  This is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE AND OPINION.  Especially when so many games, drivers, etc. have issues that ruin the experience, but on consoles it just works right out of the box and updates/patches are pain free.

That bogus, tell me about those game breaking experiences. Name me some recently. I want to know since you seem to know all of them. Also, ask why Valve isn't allowed to release patches on Xbox Live and isn't able to give all that free content to Xbox 360 owners.

That's why it is called subjective and opinion.  Every single time a new game comes out, thousands of people have issues.  Tech forums are filled with people asking about drivers for the GPU to play a certain game, or why their game crashes to the desktop, etc. etc.  If you don't know this, you must think that just because yours works other peoples must too?  There are literally trillions of combinations of hardware and software out there.  Every single game is going to have issues with at least a few thousand people based on hardware or software conflicts.  I work on PCs for living, so please don't ever try to tell me what I am saying is bogus.

And what's this bogus thing you are saying about Valve not offering free content to 360 owners or allowed to release patches?  I got the Left 4 Dead free content.  I get updates all the time on Orange Box for TF2, and on Left 4 Dead.  I think you may have misread or misinterpretted an article.

 

 

 

 



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r505Matt on 10 December 2009
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
When it's more expensive to play on a console than on a PC, you know something is wrong.

Let me know when that happens, would you? 

Even my PC to maintain detail level of 360 games and including monitor, keyboard, gaming mouse, etc. cost a minimum of $700 when I built it last year.  To keep up with the games, I have upgraded it to an HD4890 and more hard drive space and bought a larger monitor.  Total cost of the PC is now well over $1000.

You are full of crap. You can build a PC for $400 that will eat Xbox 360 for breakfast in terms of graphics. Here's what's wrong with what you said:

- You include the cost of the monitor...uuuuh, why? That's like including the cost of the HDTV in your Xbox 360 costs.

Because you HAVE to have a monitor.  Unless you want to hook it up to your living room TV which most people do not want... plus then you have keyboard and mouse cables or have to buy a wireless setup which costs more and performs worse.

YOU DON'T NEED A MONITOR! You can very well play PC games on an HDTV, the choice exists. More and more people are hooking their PCs on TVs because only now are the TVs able to support higher resolutions. And you don't need wireless for it. Go back to the drawing board.

Ok so take off the monitor.  Still a $450 minimum and you have to know how to build your own computer, which the majority of people do not.  Also, despite what you say, people do not want their desktop computers hooked up to their HDTVs in the living room used for gaming.  Families want that space for TV.  The only PCs often hooked up are HTPCs.  And if you don't use wirless, you have to buy USB extenders or sit really close to your HDTV since mouse cables are only 6ft long.

- You don't need to upgrade to match the graphics of the Xbox 360 (depending on your former GPU). Many of the recent Xbox 360 games are barely above the low settings of it's PC counterparts. GTA IV, for example, the graphics of the xbox 360 version are around the low settings of the PC version (confirmed by rockstar itself).

This is bull.  I have CoD4 on both systems.  Both look almost identical on max settings for the PC version.  Only thing different is the PC has better AA/AF.  You have to be running at least medium settings on most modern games for them to look as good as their console counterpart.

Dude, COD4 is a game that works even on 7 year old PCs. you probably wouldn't even need to upgrade your GPU to play COD4 as good as Xbox 360. Remember though, the Xbox 360 version has only around 640p resolution, which is nearly the lowest res on PC.

Yes, the console version has a lower resolution, but it still has better details, AA, and textures than the PC counterpart at similar resolutions.

- PC games are cheaper. Why are you only comparing the cost of the hardware but not of the software? Just last week you could've bought Mirror's Edge on PC for less than $5, Mass Effect for less than $5, L4D for less than $5, SF4 for less than $20, and god knows how many more games on PC. On average you will probably save almost $20 for each game you buy on PC instead on Xbox 360.

- You forget the cost of the online. It's free and better on PC, while on Xbox 360 you have to pay $50 yearly (or less if you can get a deal). That means you are looking to spend hundreds of dollars just so you can play online.

And the most popular game on PC is $15 a month to play... you have to pay for the experiences you want.  On PC you pay per game (if that game requires a charge), while on XBL it is a flat fee of $50 (or $30-40 in my case) for an entire year for ALL GAMES which also gives you the community features accross all games, party chat, a huge on demand selection, etc.  It's like renting a set top box for just $50 a year plus it provides all those smooth and well integrated features.

Dude, don't you even realise the concept of MMO?!

 

I don't think you have any idea the point I was making?  I only commented on the MMO because it is pay to play even though there are similar free mmo experiences.  You ignored the rest for a reason, me thinks

Another thing, the gaming experience is SUPERIOR ON PC.  This is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE AND OPINION.  Especially when so many games, drivers, etc. have issues that ruin the experience, but on consoles it just works right out of the box and updates/patches are pain free.

That bogus, tell me about those game breaking experiences. Name me some recently. I want to know since you seem to know all of them. Also, ask why Valve isn't allowed to release patches on Xbox Live and isn't able to give all that free content to Xbox 360 owners.

That's why it is called subjective and opinion.  Every single time a new game comes out, thousands of people have issues.  Tech forums are filled with people asking about drivers for the GPU to play a certain game, or why their game crashes to the desktop, etc. etc.  If you don't know this, you must think that just because yours works other peoples must too?  There are literally trillions of combinations of hardware and software out there.  Every single game is going to have issues with at least a few thousand people based on hardware or software conflicts.  I work on PCs for living, so please don't ever try to tell me what I am saying is bogus.

And what's this bogus thing you are saying about Valve not offering free content to 360 owners or allowed to release patches?  I got the Left 4 Dead free content.  I get updates all the time on Orange Box for TF2, and on Left 4 Dead.  I think you may have misread or misinterpretted an article.

 

 

 

 

You guys are funny; a few things I want to add. I got my 4 GB Ram for like $50 and it runs great.

Saying the gaming experience is better on PC is silly. For some games, I agree, I could never play RTS on a console. For shooters, I consider them different experiences. But overall, I VASTLY prefer console gaming. I'd rather lay down on the couch, controller in hand, and go through a nice RPG than sit at a computer and play for hours. I used to play WoW, and if only MMO gaming was more doable on consoles, I'd have preferred it there. I do not like wireless keyboard/mouse.

Normal people DO NOT hook up their PCs to the TV. Maybe single gamers who live alone, but even if you have a roomate, said roomate will probably be against it. And in a family? Hell no.

Games can look AWESOME on TVs, so who cares if it's a little better/worse than its PC counterpart. As long as you have a good experience with it either way, isn't that more important?

And games ALWAYS have problems when released due to various hardware combinations. Nightsurge is completely right, thousands of people flood forums with "Help, *insert game name* doesn't work *lists specs*"  If you think this doesn't happen, then I question whether or not you actually play games Shio. My friend still has problems with L4D2 after about a month? No fix from Valve yet for his issues.



loves2splooge on 10 December 2009
vgaddict said:

@r505Matt : It's only your taste. I prefer like a lot of people the PS3 controller, if only because it has a real D-PAD.

Half of the old games are unplayable on 360 due to the lack of a decent D-PAD... It's a major default for a controller. For me, it clearly gives the edge to the PS3 controller. The shoulder buttons you don't like are easily fixed, it costs 2 $ and clicks on top of standard buttons, so I've got classical triggers on shoulder buttons... The 360 D-PAD on the other hand, well it can't be fixed.

And yeah, PC/360 are not 'exclusives' since they're playable on 2 machines. I've got a PC, I don't care about 360 games I can buy on my PC. Saying 'it's a different world' doesn't mean anything. Games are games. Fact is I won't buy a 360 if half of its so called 'exclusives' are playable on my PC...

PS3 exclusives are in fact... exclusives. Which means you can't play them on anything except a PS3. That's why PS3 / PC is the perfect combo.

 

If the Xbox 360 D-Pad is that much of an issue for you, you have a lot of options to consider. You can buy the Mad Catz 360 controller (identical except they have a decent SNES-style D-Pad), you can buy the Street Fighter IV Fight Pads that they sell (8-directional D-Pad, 6 face buttons, 2 shoulders but no analogs. It's basically a Sega Genesis controller with shoulder buttons. It's the next best thing from Arcade Sticks for fighters) And if you are really into fighters, theres the arcade stick option (which you should consider anyway if you have a PS3).

 

Btw on a side note (this is for 360 owners, I'm not directing this to vgaddict), I've been thinking about getting something with a good D-Pad to play retro games (ie. Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, retro XBLA stuff, etc). Would you recommend that I get the Madcatz controller (which can pretty much double as a standard 360 controller anyway since they have analogs and triggers) and then buy an arcade stick in the future if I really feel like getting into fighters more? (Blazblue is the only arcade fighter I have atm. I might get some other fighters in the future like SSF4, Soul Calibur, Tekken, DOA, Virtua Fighter, etc.) Or would you recommend that I just get those SF Fight Pads? (they are like $50 and they are great for retro games and fighters alike but they don't have analogs and 360-style triggers so they aren't compatible with a lot of my 360 games). Thanks. I'm aware that I can sand off that plastic ring around the 360 D-Pad to make it more decent but I don't feel like going through the trouble and I'm afraid I'd mess it up.



thetruthteller89 on 10 December 2009
nightsurge said:
doomed89 said:
nightsurge said:
doomed89 said:
nightsurge said:
doomed89 said:

It's simple MS invested all their money in stealing Sony's exclusives and paying off devs for timed exclusive and to lie about it, but now that all the timed exclusive are on ps3 combined with the fact Sony has made new IP after new IP the 360s exclusives list sucks compared to the ps3 not to mention the failrate is still an issue and the now banning anything that has been modded in any way to increase sales, the only real advantage MS had was it's timed exclusive and the fact it was cheaper in stores now that it has neither it's seen for what it is a waste of money 

You won't find any bias or misinformation in this post! 

Is this really vgaddict already?  Man you just hop on from one alt account to another as soon as you get banned, don't you?

One I'm not whoever you think I am two if there's something specifically wrong with anything in my post say so specifically none of this vague bullshit that doesn't mean anything  but you don't agree and have nothing to back up why

Nothing specifically wrong.  More the entire thing, and the reasons for posting it.  You clearly are as biased as they come and will only ever say negative things about the 360.  Including trying to perceive people with lies or conspiracy theories.  The 360 failure rate is no where near an issue anymore.  All new 360's have 4% failure rate or lower.  Not to mention MS has been banning modded consoles for years now.  And they even released a statement saying they did not ban 1 million people this last time around.  And they only banned modded 360s that could play pirated games.  Not modded 360's that had better cooling or case mods.

And then you claim the 360's exclusives suck even though they all sell much better than PS3 exclusives... and you say the 360 is just a waste of money... clearly bias free!!!

lol BULLSHIT the 360 failrate still isn't within industry standards squaretrades last report put it at 35% and I have seen no valid evidence since then that puts it any lower if you care to show a relaible source saying it's 4% then by all means but don't spout bullshit (although thats the only thing the defenders of 360 seem to do) again more bullshit MS just lies and lies anything they say should be treated as such until proven they said the failrate of the 360 was 3% when it was 54%-68% ffs and whos the biased one now I bet you couldn't even name 5 of the best ps3 exclusive don't confuse your ignorance of ps3 exclusives with it not having any 

@SlimFat: What games exactly rival Uncharted 2, what about Infamous, what about Valkyria chronicles what about Rachet and Clank or LBP you say 360 exclusives rival them but there are none that really do the 360 has basically nothing but shooters they dont even have a decent platformer exclusive ffs your obviously just prejudist against the ps3 because thats the way everyone was because everyone was a Xbot where you lived the ps3 has better games by far it is only your ignorance that doesn't let you see that, and since your not used to the controller you didn't even give it a chance 


 

That's funny... it was SquareTrade that just announced the 4% figure.  Maybe you should read the articles rather than blindly believe whatever negative thing about 360 that you find?  The 30% figures was for older models.  Not models sold within the last year (aka Jasper models).  The new models, as I said, have a failure rate of 4% or lower.  I'm sorry you can't control yourself in a mature fashion for reasonable unbiased debate.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html

"Fortunately, SquareTrade found that Xbox 360 quality has improved dramatically since the third quarter of 2008, shortly before the 65nm CPU/GPU "Jasper" model was introduced. Since then, first-year failure rates have plummeted to below the 4 percent the company projected. Looking at 500 units purchased in 2009, SquareTrade found that less than 1 percent had suffered the Red Ring of Death."

I myself have owned a PS3 and can go into detail about aspects of the PS3 if you so wish me to prove myself.  As for the top 5 best games, that's subjective and opinionated, but for me I only owned PixelJunk Monsters, Call of Duty 4, and Killzone 2.  All were great, though CoD4 played much more smoothly online on XBL than PSN.  Killzone 2 was very good, both graphically and gameplay, I just wasn't a fan of the larger battles, and the maps were sometimes too large to find people in.

Who said anything about RROD he said failrate, and Squaretrade based that off of preliminary data not solid numbers, about a two years ago squaretrade put the failrate of the 360 at 16% based on preliminary data about a year later they put it at 23.7-35% now it should of gotten better over time not worse, the only explination is that their preliminary data is inaccurate and you still have yet to prove anything since it's only RROD the RROD could be 0 and 360s could be failing 50% of the time  since you don't even know the dif between RROD and failrate you obviously have no idea about what your talking about 



thetruthteller89 on 10 December 2009
r505Matt said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
When it's more expensive to play on a console than on a PC, you know something is wrong.

Let me know when that happens, would you? 

Even my PC to maintain detail level of 360 games and including monitor, keyboard, gaming mouse, etc. cost a minimum of $700 when I built it last year.  To keep up with the games, I have upgraded it to an HD4890 and more hard drive space and bought a larger monitor.  Total cost of the PC is now well over $1000.

You are full of crap. You can build a PC for $400 that will eat Xbox 360 for breakfast in terms of graphics. Here's what's wrong with what you said:

- You include the cost of the monitor...uuuuh, why? That's like including the cost of the HDTV in your Xbox 360 costs.

Because you HAVE to have a monitor.  Unless you want to hook it up to your living room TV which most people do not want... plus then you have keyboard and mouse cables or have to buy a wireless setup which costs more and performs worse.

YOU DON'T NEED A MONITOR! You can very well play PC games on an HDTV, the choice exists. More and more people are hooking their PCs on TVs because only now are the TVs able to support higher resolutions. And you don't need wireless for it. Go back to the drawing board.

Ok so take off the monitor.  Still a $450 minimum and you have to know how to build your own computer, which the majority of people do not.  Also, despite what you say, people do not want their desktop computers hooked up to their HDTVs in the living room used for gaming.  Families want that space for TV.  The only PCs often hooked up are HTPCs.  And if you don't use wirless, you have to buy USB extenders or sit really close to your HDTV since mouse cables are only 6ft long.

- You don't need to upgrade to match the graphics of the Xbox 360 (depending on your former GPU). Many of the recent Xbox 360 games are barely above the low settings of it's PC counterparts. GTA IV, for example, the graphics of the xbox 360 version are around the low settings of the PC version (confirmed by rockstar itself).

This is bull.  I have CoD4 on both systems.  Both look almost identical on max settings for the PC version.  Only thing different is the PC has better AA/AF.  You have to be running at least medium settings on most modern games for them to look as good as their console counterpart.

Dude, COD4 is a game that works even on 7 year old PCs. you probably wouldn't even need to upgrade your GPU to play COD4 as good as Xbox 360. Remember though, the Xbox 360 version has only around 640p resolution, which is nearly the lowest res on PC.

Yes, the console version has a lower resolution, but it still has better details, AA, and textures than the PC counterpart at similar resolutions.

- PC games are cheaper. Why are you only comparing the cost of the hardware but not of the software? Just last week you could've bought Mirror's Edge on PC for less than $5, Mass Effect for less than $5, L4D for less than $5, SF4 for less than $20, and god knows how many more games on PC. On average you will probably save almost $20 for each game you buy on PC instead on Xbox 360.

- You forget the cost of the online. It's free and better on PC, while on Xbox 360 you have to pay $50 yearly (or less if you can get a deal). That means you are looking to spend hundreds of dollars just so you can play online.

And the most popular game on PC is $15 a month to play... you have to pay for the experiences you want.  On PC you pay per game (if that game requires a charge), while on XBL it is a flat fee of $50 (or $30-40 in my case) for an entire year for ALL GAMES which also gives you the community features accross all games, party chat, a huge on demand selection, etc.  It's like renting a set top box for just $50 a year plus it provides all those smooth and well integrated features.

Dude, don't you even realise the concept of MMO?!

 

I don't think you have any idea the point I was making?  I only commented on the MMO because it is pay to play even though there are similar free mmo experiences.  You ignored the rest for a reason, me thinks

Another thing, the gaming experience is SUPERIOR ON PC.  This is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE AND OPINION.  Especially when so many games, drivers, etc. have issues that ruin the experience, but on consoles it just works right out of the box and updates/patches are pain free.

That bogus, tell me about those game breaking experiences. Name me some recently. I want to know since you seem to know all of them. Also, ask why Valve isn't allowed to release patches on Xbox Live and isn't able to give all that free content to Xbox 360 owners.

That's why it is called subjective and opinion.  Every single time a new game comes out, thousands of people have issues.  Tech forums are filled with people asking about drivers for the GPU to play a certain game, or why their game crashes to the desktop, etc. etc.  If you don't know this, you must think that just because yours works other peoples must too?  There are literally trillions of combinations of hardware and software out there.  Every single game is going to have issues with at least a few thousand people based on hardware or software conflicts.  I work on PCs for living, so please don't ever try to tell me what I am saying is bogus.

And what's this bogus thing you are saying about Valve not offering free content to 360 owners or allowed to release patches?  I got the Left 4 Dead free content.  I get updates all the time on Orange Box for TF2, and on Left 4 Dead.  I think you may have misread or misinterpretted an article.

 

 

 

 

You guys are funny; a few things I want to add. I got my 4 GB Ram for like $50 and it runs great.

Saying the gaming experience is better on PC is silly. For some games, I agree, I could never play RTS on a console. For shooters, I consider them different experiences. But overall, I VASTLY prefer console gaming. I'd rather lay down on the couch, controller in hand, and go through a nice RPG than sit at a computer and play for hours. I used to play WoW, and if only MMO gaming was more doable on consoles, I'd have preferred it there. I do not like wireless keyboard/mouse.

Normal people DO NOT hook up their PCs to the TV. Maybe single gamers who live alone, but even if you have a roomate, said roomate will probably be against it. And in a family? Hell no.

Games can look AWESOME on TVs, so who cares if it's a little better/worse than its PC counterpart. As long as you have a good experience with it either way, isn't that more important?

And games ALWAYS have problems when released due to various hardware combinations. Nightsurge is completely right, thousands of people flood forums with "Help, *insert game name* doesn't work *lists specs*"  If you think this doesn't happen, then I question whether or not you actually play games Shio. My friend still has problems with L4D2 after about a month? No fix from Valve yet for his issues.

You do know you can hook it up to both at the same time and just use a switch thing to switch between the two, it's not even that hard people just think inside the box too much if you get long enough wires you can even have it in different rooms 



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Badassbab on 10 December 2009

This is only temporary, next year MS will come out swinging with Natal and Halo Reach for starters. I mean I have a PS3 and I'm very glad PSN is free but Live is definately superior in pretty much every possible way. I don't think it's the subscription fee that's hurting rather MS are remaining quiet for the remainder of the year and PS3 Slim at it's current price is an attractive proposition for any gamer. I'm sure a lot of 360 owners have bought a Slim (myself included) because the PS3 has a great library of exclusives. It's a back and forth battle. Gran Turismo and GOW3 will be the last big 'well known sequel' exclusive for the PS3 for a while.






r505Matt on 10 December 2009
thetruthteller89 said:
r505Matt said:

You guys are funny; a few things I want to add. I got my 4 GB Ram for like $50 and it runs great.

Saying the gaming experience is better on PC is silly. For some games, I agree, I could never play RTS on a console. For shooters, I consider them different experiences. But overall, I VASTLY prefer console gaming. I'd rather lay down on the couch, controller in hand, and go through a nice RPG than sit at a computer and play for hours. I used to play WoW, and if only MMO gaming was more doable on consoles, I'd have preferred it there. I do not like wireless keyboard/mouse.

Normal people DO NOT hook up their PCs to the TV. Maybe single gamers who live alone, but even if you have a roomate, said roomate will probably be against it. And in a family? Hell no.

Games can look AWESOME on TVs, so who cares if it's a little better/worse than its PC counterpart. As long as you have a good experience with it either way, isn't that more important?

And games ALWAYS have problems when released due to various hardware combinations. Nightsurge is completely right, thousands of people flood forums with "Help, *insert game name* doesn't work *lists specs*"  If you think this doesn't happen, then I question whether or not you actually play games Shio. My friend still has problems with L4D2 after about a month? No fix from Valve yet for his issues.

You do know you can hook it up to both at the same time and just use a switch thing to switch between the two, it's not even that hard people just think inside the box too much if you get long enough wires you can even have it in different rooms 

Do you even know what you're talking about? Because I don't. I don't think I mentioned anything about 'hooking up two things at the same ti,e'

And are the guy who keeps getting banned? Because it's kind of silly, you should relax (whether you are or aren't). If you aren't, your tone is very hostile for someone joining in a conversation. If you are, your tone is very hostile, and you might want to address that so you don't keep getting banned. Discussions/debates can be civil, believe it or not.

Edit: After review of tone, and grammar/punctuation, I conclude you are the same person. You use the apostrophe on contractions, but fail to use commas often, or periods. Most people don't do they, they either go all the way, or not at all. I know it's not 100%, but the chances of someone getting banned multiple times in the same thread and still coming back again are pretty high. And you have the same tone.

Edit Part 2: Removed some of quoted text, far too large.



thetruthteller89 on 10 December 2009
Badassbab said:
This is only temporary, next year MS will come out swinging with Natal and Halo Reach for starters. I mean I have a PS3 and I'm very glad PSN is free but Live is definately superior in pretty much every possible way. I don't think it's the subscription fee that's hurting rather MS are remaining quiet for the remainder of the year and PS3 Slim at it's current price is an attractive proposition for any gamer. I'm sure a lot of 360 owners have bought a Slim (myself included) because the PS3 has a great library of exclusives. It's a back and forth battle. Gran Turismo and GOW3 will be the last big 'well known sequel' exclusive for the PS3 for a while.

Another halo game and a wii copy cat project that MS probably can't even get to work right won't help their situation, only people who already are deluded enough to think halo does something that every other shooter doesn't will be interested in halo reach and only people who think MS actually tells the truth think Natal will work so only 360 fanboys will be interested in those things it's a good cash grab put doesn't extend their fanbase in anyway



thetruthteller89 on 10 December 2009
r505Matt said:
thetruthteller89 said:
r505Matt said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
When it's more expensive to play on a console than on a PC, you know something is wrong.

Let me know when that happens, would you? 

Even my PC to maintain detail level of 360 games and including monitor, keyboard, gaming mouse, etc. cost a minimum of $700 when I built it last year.  To keep up with the games, I have upgraded it to an HD4890 and more hard drive space and bought a larger monitor.  Total cost of the PC is now well over $1000.

You are full of crap. You can build a PC for $400 that will eat Xbox 360 for breakfast in terms of graphics. Here's what's wrong with what you said:

- You include the cost of the monitor...uuuuh, why? That's like including the cost of the HDTV in your Xbox 360 costs.

Because you HAVE to have a monitor.  Unless you want to hook it up to your living room TV which most people do not want... plus then you have keyboard and mouse cables or have to buy a wireless setup which costs more and performs worse.

YOU DON'T NEED A MONITOR! You can very well play PC games on an HDTV, the choice exists. More and more people are hooking their PCs on TVs because only now are the TVs able to support higher resolutions. And you don't need wireless for it. Go back to the drawing board.

Ok so take off the monitor.  Still a $450 minimum and you have to know how to build your own computer, which the majority of people do not.  Also, despite what you say, people do not want their desktop computers hooked up to their HDTVs in the living room used for gaming.  Families want that space for TV.  The only PCs often hooked up are HTPCs.  And if you don't use wirless, you have to buy USB extenders or sit really close to your HDTV since mouse cables are only 6ft long.

- You don't need to upgrade to match the graphics of the Xbox 360 (depending on your former GPU). Many of the recent Xbox 360 games are barely above the low settings of it's PC counterparts. GTA IV, for example, the graphics of the xbox 360 version are around the low settings of the PC version (confirmed by rockstar itself).

This is bull.  I have CoD4 on both systems.  Both look almost identical on max settings for the PC version.  Only thing different is the PC has better AA/AF.  You have to be running at least medium settings on most modern games for them to look as good as their console counterpart.

Dude, COD4 is a game that works even on 7 year old PCs. you probably wouldn't even need to upgrade your GPU to play COD4 as good as Xbox 360. Remember though, the Xbox 360 version has only around 640p resolution, which is nearly the lowest res on PC.

Yes, the console version has a lower resolution, but it still has better details, AA, and textures than the PC counterpart at similar resolutions.

- PC games are cheaper. Why are you only comparing the cost of the hardware but not of the software? Just last week you could've bought Mirror's Edge on PC for less than $5, Mass Effect for less than $5, L4D for less than $5, SF4 for less than $20, and god knows how many more games on PC. On average you will probably save almost $20 for each game you buy on PC instead on Xbox 360.

- You forget the cost of the online. It's free and better on PC, while on Xbox 360 you have to pay $50 yearly (or less if you can get a deal). That means you are looking to spend hundreds of dollars just so you can play online.

And the most popular game on PC is $15 a month to play... you have to pay for the experiences you want.  On PC you pay per game (if that game requires a charge), while on XBL it is a flat fee of $50 (or $30-40 in my case) for an entire year for ALL GAMES which also gives you the community features accross all games, party chat, a huge on demand selection, etc.  It's like renting a set top box for just $50 a year plus it provides all those smooth and well integrated features.

Dude, don't you even realise the concept of MMO?!

 

I don't think you have any idea the point I was making?  I only commented on the MMO because it is pay to play even though there are similar free mmo experiences.  You ignored the rest for a reason, me thinks

Another thing, the gaming experience is SUPERIOR ON PC.  This is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE AND OPINION.  Especially when so many games, drivers, etc. have issues that ruin the experience, but on consoles it just works right out of the box and updates/patches are pain free.

That bogus, tell me about those game breaking experiences. Name me some recently. I want to know since you seem to know all of them. Also, ask why Valve isn't allowed to release patches on Xbox Live and isn't able to give all that free content to Xbox 360 owners.

That's why it is called subjective and opinion.  Every single time a new game comes out, thousands of people have issues.  Tech forums are filled with people asking about drivers for the GPU to play a certain game, or why their game crashes to the desktop, etc. etc.  If you don't know this, you must think that just because yours works other peoples must too?  There are literally trillions of combinations of hardware and software out there.  Every single game is going to have issues with at least a few thousand people based on hardware or software conflicts.  I work on PCs for living, so please don't ever try to tell me what I am saying is bogus.

And what's this bogus thing you are saying about Valve not offering free content to 360 owners or allowed to release patches?  I got the Left 4 Dead free content.  I get updates all the time on Orange Box for TF2, and on Left 4 Dead.  I think you may have misread or misinterpretted an article.

 

 

 

 

You guys are funny; a few things I want to add. I got my 4 GB Ram for like $50 and it runs great.

Saying the gaming experience is better on PC is silly. For some games, I agree, I could never play RTS on a console. For shooters, I consider them different experiences. But overall, I VASTLY prefer console gaming. I'd rather lay down on the couch, controller in hand, and go through a nice RPG than sit at a computer and play for hours. I used to play WoW, and if only MMO gaming was more doable on consoles, I'd have preferred it there. I do not like wireless keyboard/mouse.

Normal people DO NOT hook up their PCs to the TV. Maybe single gamers who live alone, but even if you have a roomate, said roomate will probably be against it. And in a family? Hell no.

Games can look AWESOME on TVs, so who cares if it's a little better/worse than its PC counterpart. As long as you have a good experience with it either way, isn't that more important?

And games ALWAYS have problems when released due to various hardware combinations. Nightsurge is completely right, thousands of people flood forums with "Help, *insert game name* doesn't work *lists specs*"  If you think this doesn't happen, then I question whether or not you actually play games Shio. My friend still has problems with L4D2 after about a month? No fix from Valve yet for his issues.

You do know you can hook it up to both at the same time and just use a switch thing to switch between the two, it's not even that hard people just think inside the box too much if you get long enough wires you can even have it in different rooms 

Do you even know what you're talking about? Because I don't. I don't think I mentioned anything about 'hooking up two things at the same ti,e'

And are the guy who keeps getting banned? Because it's kind of silly, you should relax (whether you are or aren't). If you aren't, your tone is very hostile for someone joining in a conversation. If you are, your tone is very hostile, and you might want to address that so you don't keep getting banned. Discussions/debates can be civil, believe it or not.

You said it's unthinkable of a family to hook a computer up to the tv like that, it's obviously you mean because they prefer a moniter and if you hook it up to both problem solved 



nightsurge on 10 December 2009
thetruthteller89 said:
nightsurge said:
doomed89 said:
nightsurge said:
doomed89 said:
nightsurge said:
doomed89 said:

It's simple MS invested all their money in stealing Sony's exclusives and paying off devs for timed exclusive and to lie about it, but now that all the timed exclusive are on ps3 combined with the fact Sony has made new IP after new IP the 360s exclusives list sucks compared to the ps3 not to mention the failrate is still an issue and the now banning anything that has been modded in any way to increase sales, the only real advantage MS had was it's timed exclusive and the fact it was cheaper in stores now that it has neither it's seen for what it is a waste of money 

You won't find any bias or misinformation in this post! 

Is this really vgaddict already?  Man you just hop on from one alt account to another as soon as you get banned, don't you?

One I'm not whoever you think I am two if there's something specifically wrong with anything in my post say so specifically none of this vague bullshit that doesn't mean anything  but you don't agree and have nothing to back up why

Nothing specifically wrong.  More the entire thing, and the reasons for posting it.  You clearly are as biased as they come and will only ever say negative things about the 360.  Including trying to perceive people with lies or conspiracy theories.  The 360 failure rate is no where near an issue anymore.  All new 360's have 4% failure rate or lower.  Not to mention MS has been banning modded consoles for years now.  And they even released a statement saying they did not ban 1 million people this last time around.  And they only banned modded 360s that could play pirated games.  Not modded 360's that had better cooling or case mods.

And then you claim the 360's exclusives suck even though they all sell much better than PS3 exclusives... and you say the 360 is just a waste of money... clearly bias free!!!

lol BULLSHIT the 360 failrate still isn't within industry standards squaretrades last report put it at 35% and I have seen no valid evidence since then that puts it any lower if you care to show a relaible source saying it's 4% then by all means but don't spout bullshit (although thats the only thing the defenders of 360 seem to do) again more bullshit MS just lies and lies anything they say should be treated as such until proven they said the failrate of the 360 was 3% when it was 54%-68% ffs and whos the biased one now I bet you couldn't even name 5 of the best ps3 exclusive don't confuse your ignorance of ps3 exclusives with it not having any 

@SlimFat: What games exactly rival Uncharted 2, what about Infamous, what about Valkyria chronicles what about Rachet and Clank or LBP you say 360 exclusives rival them but there are none that really do the 360 has basically nothing but shooters they dont even have a decent platformer exclusive ffs your obviously just prejudist against the ps3 because thats the way everyone was because everyone was a Xbot where you lived the ps3 has better games by far it is only your ignorance that doesn't let you see that, and since your not used to the controller you didn't even give it a chance 


 

That's funny... it was SquareTrade that just announced the 4% figure.  Maybe you should read the articles rather than blindly believe whatever negative thing about 360 that you find?  The 30% figures was for older models.  Not models sold within the last year (aka Jasper models).  The new models, as I said, have a failure rate of 4% or lower.  I'm sorry you can't control yourself in a mature fashion for reasonable unbiased debate.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html

"Fortunately, SquareTrade found that Xbox 360 quality has improved dramatically since the third quarter of 2008, shortly before the 65nm CPU/GPU "Jasper" model was introduced. Since then, first-year failure rates have plummeted to below the 4 percent the company projected. Looking at 500 units purchased in 2009, SquareTrade found that less than 1 percent had suffered the Red Ring of Death."

I myself have owned a PS3 and can go into detail about aspects of the PS3 if you so wish me to prove myself.  As for the top 5 best games, that's subjective and opinionated, but for me I only owned PixelJunk Monsters, Call of Duty 4, and Killzone 2.  All were great, though CoD4 played much more smoothly online on XBL than PSN.  Killzone 2 was very good, both graphically and gameplay, I just wasn't a fan of the larger battles, and the maps were sometimes too large to find people in.

Who said anything about RROD he said failrate, and Squaretrade based that off of preliminary data not solid numbers, about a two years ago squaretrade put the failrate of the 360 at 16% based on preliminary data about a year later they put it at 23.7-35% now it should of gotten better over time not worse, the only explination is that their preliminary data is inaccurate and you still have yet to prove anything since it's only RROD the RROD could be 0 and 360s could be failing 50% of the time  since you don't even know the dif between RROD and failrate you obviously have no idea about what your talking about 

Did you read what I wrote?  I said failure rate and quoted failure rate.  The only part in there where I even mentioned RROD at all was in the SquareTrade quote where they said RROD was less than 1 percent of the 4% FAILURE RATE.

Welcome back, vgaddict

I was beginning to worry that you decided to spend your time more wisely than devoting your life to trolling the 360 on a videogame forum under 50 million user names.