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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii/Revolution - 3 Years Later

.jayderyu on 08 December 2009

Revolutions aren't land slides. They are new directions of thought. Christianity tooks hundreds of years. Though we are talking about games not religion. So instead of thinking of Revolution as viva la revolution over throw the power. Instead think of it's historical movement. Sorta of like how the Pen has become mightier than the sword. Cars became more popular than horses. TV overtook the radio. None of it was instant.

However the signs are already showing of a successful movement of the Revolution. Natal & Sony Wand, MS & Sony are now considering the expanded market. Consoles are more than just games, but machines of software entertainment. In a generation or two some day people will think of the classic controller like people think of the Atari Joystick (http://soledadpenades.com/imgs/joystick.png).



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

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Ail on 08 December 2009
.jayderyu said:
Revolutions aren't land slides. They are new directions of thought. Christianity tooks hundreds of years. Though we are talking about games not religion. So instead of thinking of Revolution as viva la revolution over throw the power. Instead think of it's historical movement. Sorta of like how the Pen has become mightier than the sword. Cars became more popular than horses. TV overtook the radio. None of it was instant.

However the signs are already showing of a successful movement of the Revolution. Natal & Sony Wand, MS & Sony are now considering the expanded market. Consoles are more than just games, but machines of software entertainment. In a generation or two some day people will think of the classic controller like people think of the Atari Joystick (http://soledadpenades.com/imgs/joystick.png).

Actually most of the event that were called revolution in the last 2000 years were landslides.

Those I can think off :

- French revolution

- American revolution

- Industrial revolution

 

No history book ever called Christianism a revolution( and justly so as it wasn't the first religion to introduce the concept of one god, christianism doesn't introduce a tonn of new stuff compared to judaism...)



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

mike_intellivision on 08 December 2009

The Wii shook up the industry.

It got more and different people to buy consoles. It got more and different people to play games. That is the revolution.

Last generation, Nintendo sold 21M WW out 178M units (approximate numbers using VGC data). So it less than a 12% market share. Right now, the Wii is at a low-point with a 48.5% market share with 58M units sold. That is 4x market share and 2.5+x sales (With a total market size that is less than three-quarters the previous total market size).

Plus, Ninetendo has only had to cut Wii prices by 20% while PS3 and Xbox 360 prices are down 40%-50%.

Also, no one believed in motion control before the Wii. -- but now MS and Sony are trying to bring it to their consoles.

Finally, a lot of former gamers are gamers again. Look at me for example. They would not have bought any other console than the Wii. So the market size really shrinks if Nintendo does not step in.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
Lolcislaw on 08 December 2009
mike_intellivision said:
The Wii shook up the industry.

It got more and different people to buy consoles. It got more and different people to play games. That is the revolution.

Last generation, Nintendo sold 21M WW out 178M units (approximate numbers using VGC data). So it less than a 12% market share. Right now, the Wii is at a low-point with a 48.5% market share with 58M units sold. That is 4x market share and 2.5+x sales (With a total market size that is less than three-quarters the previous total market size).

Plus, Ninetendo has only had to cut Wii prices by 20% while PS3 and Xbox 360 prices are down 40%-50%.

Also, no one believed in motion control before the Wii. -- but now MS and Sony are trying to bring it to their consoles.

Finally, a lot of former gamers are gamers again. Look at me for example. They would not have bought any other console than the Wii. So the market size really shrinks if Nintendo does not step in.

Mike from Morgantown

Completely Agree, people might not like the Wii but it did change the industry forever, it took it in different direction it opened it for the new customers.



blunty51 on 08 December 2009
max power said:

1.  "Waggle added" games where shaking the controller is merely substituted for pressing a button
This is mostly true.
2.  FPS/Driving games with better (read: More fun) controls than their analog joystick counterparts
Still the console hasn't gotten enough good racing games as yet.
3.  Minigame collections
Easy cash for pubs/devs..

 



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bazmeistergen on 09 December 2009
Gamerace said:
max power said:
Gamerace said:
There's quite a few games that have made great and innovative use of the motion controls or IR to create new game play, the problem is the public has by and large ignored them all except for mini-games.

To name a few, Elebits, Dewy's Adventure, Mecury Meltdown, Kororinpa 1&2, Let's Tap, Zack & Wiki, Lost Winds, and many others.

Many incorporated motion/IR to traditional games to great effect and enhanced gameplay but not great sales. Titles include: Godfather, Bully, The Conduit, Madworld, CoD5&6, Excite Truck and other racers, RE 4, RE:UC, and many really under appreciated titles like Blazing Angels, Splinter Cell Double Agent, Tomb Raider Anniversary and many, many more.

Yes some of those sold over a million but still not as strongly as they did (or could have) on HD systems.

Critics blasted a lot of these games for the controls being not as accurate as analog, as are right to a degree but they ignored the engaging and tactile feeling those controls gave.

The motion renaissance your looking for came, was ignored, and left already.

But get ready for round two next year when Natal comes out.

I disagree.  I think most of my favorite games for Wii would made little or no use from the unique Wii controls (I'm referring to Mario Galaxy, NSMB, Twilight Princess, Smash Bros Brawl, and several others). 

I want to see more games make unique use of the Wiimote.  A Star Wars lightsaber game with 1:1 controls, or perhaps Red Steel 2.  I agree with what you're saying about the tactile file - that's exactly why I prefer playing Mario Kart Wii with the wheel instead of the joystick, but I don't get that feeling in Zelda or Mario... instead I'm just shaking the remote instead of pushing a button.  If I was supposed to be shaking a soda can like in Mario Party, then that's great, but if the effect is Link doing a spin or Mario doing a jump, how is that any more tactile than pressing a button?

That's because most game genres, all in fact, were built around buttons and a directional pad or analog stick.   Some will never benefit from motion.   Motion is useless in SSBB, and mostly pointless in SMG, Zelda, etc because it's being shoehorned into a mechanic not designed for it.

But those games designed for motion (except mini games) as I listed underperformed.   So why is anyone going to make more?

Sandbox games make fantastic use of motion.   Godfather, Scarface, Bully were all way more fun with motion controls and IR shooting.  But did anyone buy them?   No.  TPS and FPS like RE4 and CoD benefit tremendously to but again, except for RE4 the few TPS sold poorly and even RE4 wasn't stellar considering it had the market practically all to itself.   There's been no FPS success of significance on Wii.   Sports games benefit tremendously too but except for Tiger Woods (and NHL2k) the sales don't really reflect it.

Whenever the motion is used extensively critics whine and bitch.  But it's fun in Lara Croft or Splinter Cell and recently Indiana Jones but again, no one cares.   People would rather play traditional games with traditional controls because they are set in their ways.   And new gameplay mechanics fail more often than not. 

Let's hope Red Steel 2 sales in the millions so we get more like it.  But realistically, it'll be lucky to break 1m.    A Star Wars lightsaber game with WM+ 1:1 would do great and I'm sure LucasArts knows it.   After all  Force Unleashed sold well on Wii and even that crap Lightsaber Duels has now broken a million.    I just hope they make it a full featured game with extensive online and full story mode and not a casual arcade crap fest (although I want the casual arcade straight up duels in the game too).

The core audience has rejected motion even when it's superior, it adds little to nothing to the games your talking about and the casual market that loves motion don't play those types of games anyway.

Pro Evo 2008 did pretty well, with over a million. Fifa is not too far behind.

Grand Slam Tennis is doing ok.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

bazmeistergen on 09 December 2009
Ail said:
.jayderyu said:
Revolutions aren't land slides. They are new directions of thought. Christianity tooks hundreds of years. Though we are talking about games not religion. So instead of thinking of Revolution as viva la revolution over throw the power. Instead think of it's historical movement. Sorta of like how the Pen has become mightier than the sword. Cars became more popular than horses. TV overtook the radio. None of it was instant.

However the signs are already showing of a successful movement of the Revolution. Natal & Sony Wand, MS & Sony are now considering the expanded market. Consoles are more than just games, but machines of software entertainment. In a generation or two some day people will think of the classic controller like people think of the Atari Joystick (http://soledadpenades.com/imgs/joystick.png).

Actually most of the event that were called revolution in the last 2000 years were landslides.

Those I can think off :

- French revolution

- American revolution

- Industrial revolution

 

No history book ever called Christianism a revolution( and justly so as it wasn't the first religion to introduce the concept of one god, christianism doesn't introduce a tonn of new stuff compared to judaism...)


None of them were landslides at all. The Industrial Revolution did not change things overnight, the same for the two political 'transformations'. Some people started to invent machines, but they were not everywhere immediately. It depends which steam engine you use as the starting point: Watt? Newcomen? Do you see the Seedrill as the start of the agicultural revolution? Nothing dramatically changes the world in a few days or weeks. There's clearly room for a debate on this, but I'm not sure anyone could be bothered with it.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

bardicverse on 09 December 2009

The revolution goes well beyond sales, here's a few main points:

1. The dawn of fitness gaming. Wii Fit, EA Active, etc have sold millions of copies, overshadowing major gaming staples like the recent offerings from Grand Theft Auto series. Physical therapists, gyms, etc are putting Wii systems in their businesses for the fitness games and motor skill games like Wii Sports. This is a previously uncharted ground for the game industry.

2. Motion controls. The Wii brought about a rebirth of motion control gaming to the industry. How developers have used it is irrelevant, but those who incorporated it well have been paid hansomely for their efforts. Furthermore, the Wii "fad" of motion controls has forced the hand of its competitors to make their own ventures into motion controls for 2010.

3. Putting the familiy back together through gaming. Since the days of Atari 2600, gaming had slowy become more of a "one machine, one person" system, especially seen in force by the birth of the Sony PlayStation. More solitary game design, then the incorporation of online gaming, all made gaming a very solitary, if not obsessive, activity. The Wii has brought the family together, focusing on games that the whole family can learn easily, catering to "party gaming" and so forth.

4. Gameplay, not graphics. The industry as a whole had been growing a bloodlust for prettier graphics, but the same rehashed product underneath. With the Wii's graphical limitations, developers spent more time focusing on the game itself, and less concentration on the graphics. This has changed the way developers think and approach their game design, for the Wii and beyond it.

I'd say it's been quite a revolution from the industry we knew in the times before the Wii.



Arius Dion on 09 December 2009
bardicverse said:

The revolution goes well beyond sales, here's a few main points:

1. The dawn of fitness gaming. Wii Fit, EA Active, etc have sold millions of copies, overshadowing major gaming staples like the recent offerings from Grand Theft Auto series. Physical therapists, gyms, etc are putting Wii systems in their businesses for the fitness games and motor skill games like Wii Sports. This is a previously uncharted ground for the game industry.

2. Motion controls. The Wii brought about a rebirth of motion control gaming to the industry. How developers have used it is irrelevant, but those who incorporated it well have been paid hansomely for their efforts. Furthermore, the Wii "fad" of motion controls has forced the hand of its competitors to make their own ventures into motion controls for 2010.

3. Putting the familiy back together through gaming. Since the days of Atari 2600, gaming had slowy become more of a "one machine, one person" system, especially seen in force by the birth of the Sony PlayStation. More solitary game design, then the incorporation of online gaming, all made gaming a very solitary, if not obsessive, activity. The Wii has brought the family together, focusing on games that the whole family can learn easily, catering to "party gaming" and so forth.

4. Gameplay, not graphics. The industry as a whole had been growing a bloodlust for prettier graphics, but the same rehashed product underneath. With the Wii's graphical limitations, developers spent more time focusing on the game itself, and less concentration on the graphics. This has changed the way developers think and approach their game design, for the Wii and beyond it.

I'd say it's been quite a revolution from the industry we knew in the times before the Wii.

This, 100%.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

wyvers on 09 December 2009
bardicverse said:

...

2. Motion controls. The Wii brought about a rebirth of motion control gaming to the industry. How developers have used it is irrelevant, but those who incorporated it well have been paid hansomely for their efforts. Furthermore, the Wii "fad" of motion controls has forced the hand of its competitors to make their own ventures into motion controls for 2010.

 

...

 

How so?

Most of the "games" using motion control belong more into the category of fitness trainers.

The biggest Wii title this year, NSMB Wii, uses  no motion control at all. The Sixasis is capable of shaking and tilting.

The Wii still has not fullfilled what it promised, bringing motion control into games.

Now what the next year brings we have to see, because it gets competition in motion control and perhaps we see some good motion games on one of the consoles, encouraged through competiton.