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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - You know, Twilight Princess is pretty great still.

Khuutra said:

So I started up a new game today. Erased my old file, named the hero after myself, named the horse Agro. And I played.

Four hours later I had completed the first dungeon. A few things occurred to me that may not have occurred to me the first time.

You just answered why Twilight Princess wasn't as good as other Zeldas.  Way too many cutscenes, emphasis on story and dialogue and so much focus on graphics and 'atmosphere' that the gameplay suffered.

Sure, Twilight Princess isn't a bad game.  You could even consider it good from a technical and beauty standpoint.  But when comparing it to past Zelda titles, it has major flaws.  And things you'd think they would have seen early in development.  Especially since they were trying to make a game to not only imitate, but surpass Ocarina of Time on the same level.  Instead, its pretty much a game that feels like Ocarina of Time made TOO grand and TOO long.  Where even the most menial task has to be extended into an hour long side-quest and dungeons are no longer fun, but a chore.



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Kenryoku I don't think we were playing the same dungeons, because the dungeons in Twilight Princess are awesome.



ShadowSoldier said:
I have a confession, due to some money problems, I had to sell Twilight Princess before I could get very far.... Im sorry

Aonuma forgives all, embraces all.



:'( My next pay-cheque goes towards Twilight Princess



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"In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games." - dtewi

ShadowSoldier said:
:'( My next pay-cheque goes towards Twilight Princess

And so the healing begins



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I think Twilight Princess is the perfection of the 3-D Zelda formula that Ocarina created.  And I think you explained why in the OP.  It was the first Zelda in which I actually cared about the other characters.  I really felt like those little kids were my family.  And when one of them opened a store, I really felt like I had to support them.  And I really loved the story with the Zoras this time.  It wasn't just the same old "hey go join a Zora rock band" thing that every game should do, but I had to trek across the world fighting on horseback while protecting a covered wagon?  That was some epic movie magic, but all in gameplay.  Same with the jousting scenes on the bridge.  Those scenes made me feel like I was playing an epic movie, but I didn't have to let go of the controller and watch a movie.  I got to play the epic climaxes.  And I think it had the best ending, other than Link's Awakening of course.  The snow dungeon is probably my favorite dungeon in any Zelda design-wise, I thought all the Twilight stuff was really beautiful, and Midna is the greatest character from any Zelda.  Damn this game was good.  And even though all my favorite items were in Link's Awakening, I think Twilight Princess has the best collection of weapons and items as a whole.  By the end of the game you're just ridiculous.



My old roommate watched me beat the entire game, and as soon as I beat the last boss, he wanted to watch me beat the boss a 2nd time in a row, and after I did that, he immediately started his own game and played through the entire thing.  I've never seen that happen before or since.



The Ghost of RubangB said:

I think Twilight Princess is the perfection of the 3-D Zelda formula that Ocarina created.

I do not mean to belittle the rest of your post (it was a very agreeable post) but this point in particular is interesting to me because it's related to something I was thinking about earlier.

In general, there are three schools of Zelda design:

The Old School, beginning with the first game and probably epitomized in Link's Awakening (or Link to the Past, depending on who you are asking)

The 3-D School, beginning with Ocarina of Time and epitomized in Twilight Princess. Lots of people are primairly familiar with this, but it's also interesting in that in Wind Waker, it also gave birth to

The DS School, arguably beginning with Wind Waker in some respects (exploration, art style, focus in terms of gameplay and storytelling) but finding its real genesis in Phantom Hourglass (how the game actually plays, the way one interacts with the game, how these interactions dictate the structure of the world). Spirit Tracks would be only the second "true" entry in this school.

It's interesting to me because each of these schools of design - even though one is very young, relatively speaking - have very different expectations attached to them and the games that are within them. The introduction of new schools, I think, is part of what makes these games so powerful, makes certian games stick out in the mind's eye more - the original, Ocarina, Phantom Hourglass, all of these will be remembered as the formative games that marked separate epochs for the series.

I hope Zelda Wii will mark something similar.



Khuutra said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

I think Twilight Princess is the perfection of the 3-D Zelda formula that Ocarina created.

I do not mean to belittle the rest of your post (it was a very agreeable post) but this point in particular is interesting to me because it's related to something I was thinking about earlier.

In general, there are three schools of Zelda design:

The Old School, beginning with the first game and probably epitomized in Link's Awakening (or Link to the Past, depending on who you are asking)

The 3-D School, beginning with Ocarina of Time and epitomized in Twilight Princess. Lots of people are primairly familiar with this, but it's also interesting in that in Wind Waker, it also gave birth to

The DS School, arguably beginning with Wind Waker in some respects (exploration, art style, focus in terms of gameplay and storytelling) but finding its real genesis in Phantom Hourglass (how the game actually plays, the way one interacts with the game, how these interactions dictate the structure of the world). Spirit Tracks would be only the second "true" entry in this school.

It's interesting to me because each of these schools of design - even though one is very young, relatively speaking - have very different expectations attached to them and the games that are within them. The introduction of new schools, I think, is part of what makes these games so powerful, makes certian games stick out in the mind's eye more - the original, Ocarina, Phantom Hourglass, all of these will be remembered as the formative games that marked separate epochs for the series.

I hope Zelda Wii will mark something similar.

I think that's a great way to look at Zelda, and I hope that's the way Nintendo looks at Zelda after all the hints they keep dropping that Zelda Wii will be super different.

Seems like the 2nd game in each school is the one where Nintendo gets all crazy and experimental, and then Nintendo learns some lessons and goes back to the main formula and perfects it.  Adventure of Link gets to be a sidescrolling platformer with magic and leveling up RPG style.  Majora's Mask gets a compact dense world instead of a giant open world, and has crazier/cooler time travel than Ocarina.  Spirit Tracks has Zelda die at the very beginning, what the hell?

 

I still can't believe that Zelda dies in Spirit Tracks.  I don't know what's crazier, Zelda dying, or Zelda going on an epic quest with you the whole way.  I've never actually been hyped for the story of a Zelda game before it came out.  I've always been on board because it's Zelda, so I expect nothing less than amazing gameplay, puzzles, music, items, and bosses, and that's what I get.  But this time I can't wait to find out what happens.  I think Nintendo's onto something here.  And trains are cooler than boats too, so I'm actually SUPER-excited.



I've noticed a fair bit of hate toward this game recently. What's up with that?



UGH

I need Spirit Tracks

I admit that part of the reason I started playing Twilight Princess again was to give me some kind of Zelda fix for the times when my wife is hogging the Spirit Tracks cart.