Actually I thought the issue was purely about third parties not developing on the Wii and you saying that they couldn't produce good/artistic games on the Wii since it wasn't as advanced, but as we've agreed, many games can be artistic and quality without that need for the most cutting edge in tech

That's what I implied in my post as well.

And the point was that whatever the sales or your personal taste in gaming, denying that the developers of games such as Uncharted, Alan Wake, Bioshock are harnessing the tech for their vision on what videogames can deliver, denying that there are passionate artists and professionals who feel that tech grants them more tools and ways to express themselves sounds limited and shallow.

Calling them graphic whores was downright insulting.

Please open your mind a bit. Some developers don't hate the Wii for weird tinfoil-hat reasons. Some of them just want to do what they want to do, and as long as their way is economically viable we should just rejoice that there's enough interest in the market to support a variety of visions, even if they don't gross as much as WiiFit.

I'm not being insulting, the idea that they need the tech to deliver the experience is disproven over and over, not just in video games, but in other media, games didn't suddenly become good this gen after having sucked for decades, the fact that they feel they need the tech, just shows that one they are unable to deliver an engaging experience without it, or that they are too obsessed with graphics.

I don't feel it is some conspiracy against the Wii, I'm talking about the mindset in the industry that is the problem the mindset that games must have HD graphics, and must have all these unnecessary bells and whistles or it sucks.

'I'm not being insulting, the idea that they need the tech to deliver the experience is disproven over and over, not just in video games, but in other media.'.

Like, say, CGI over hand drawn animation. Oh, wait..

Depending on what you want to do, the tech is very much needed. Physics made HL2 what it is. The PS2 was barely able to support Shadow of the Colossus and could not have been done on a PS1. The Uncharted 2 experience is delivered thanks to the tech used, and probably the same will be true of Alan Wake and Heavy Rain.

The fact that you might like or not those games, or that other kinds of games might sell more is beyond the point. What those developers wanted met what they could thanks to the tech, and they were able to deliver an experience.

You're basically saying that every developer should want to do other things - or they're "graphic whores" which I think is quite derogatory, but that's not how it works.

"Can't you ever admit that there is people who might think that there's something else relevant and interesting in gaming than what you personally like, or even than what is the more mainstream sentiment?"

Being in HD somehow makes it more interesting or relevant? Bigger, yes, but also more expensive. That's not art. That's a need to make art flashy.

And where exactly did I say that they are more interesting or relevant because they are in HD? The right context:

steverhcp02 said:

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But i do think there is really a large chunk of stdios and devs that simply aim to make games like bioshock, uncharted, gears of war, alan wake, heavy rain etc. that really just have a huge passion for the art of what they do and the things that make those games great just simply arent possible on the wii technologically, not a knock.

...

Avinash_Tyagi said:

Except those games aren't the greatest ever, not by a longshot, so the argument that they are passionate about the art doesn't really hold, now if you say they are graphics whores, who need the crutch of HD then you have an argument

So basically, Avinash is saying that since he thinks those games are not "the greatest ever", it means that the authors are not passionate about their job and are just "graphic whores". My quotation meant that those developers might have different ideas about what is relevant and interesting, and insinuating that they are faking their pasion is insulting. As for judging if the technology - and nowhere I'm talking about HD only - was useful or even necessary to deliver their vision, that's for the users and critics to judge by means of playing and examining the finished game. For most of the games indicated by steverhcp02 - not all of which I actually like - I'd say that yes, the technology was needed to deliver the experience.

BTW, being dismissal about all visual technology as if it was needless orpels is a silly generalization for a medium that is first of all visual. When used by talented people graphics are able to convey storytelling, to suggest a mood, to communicate. When Kubrik adapted special lenses for naturalistic candle lighting in Barry Lyndon, when he absolutely wanted 2001 shot in an extra-wide aspect ratio, when he used the newfangled steadycam to chase actors in Shining, was he being a "graphics whore"? I'd say he was simply a craftsman that was not afraid of being very picky with technology because he knew what he wanted.

"And where exactly did I say that they are more interesting or relevant because they are in HD? The right context:"

One of the comments you quoted claimed they "arent possible on the wii technologically", which is bunk. It's not like Dead Rising.

The problem is that Nintendo was never aggressive with courting top-tier Western developers to make AAA games on the Wii - Sony and Microsoft did.

Because HD is the only thing the Wii isn't capable of?

When I think of Uncharted 2 and - for what I know - Alan Wake, I'd be more concerned about streaming all that amount of data in background. Gears uses the multicore and multithreaded CPU to decompress the streamed data in background, and has enough CPU and GPU left for split co-op. There were interviews with the authors of Heavy Rain stating that they couldn't have done their crowd scenes without parallelizing their behaviour to the SPEs. Have you seen the videos about AIs in KZ2 having to deal with navigation in dynamically changing sceneries? That was pretty CPU intensive, as well. LBP without enough CPU power for the physics-based mayhem wouldn't be the same, and without a mandatory hard-disk, network infrastructure, patch system again it wouldn't be the game it is.

Maybe the Wii can do some of these things, in the right conditions, with the right compromises. But certainly it is not a first choice plaform if you already know you want to go in these directions. My posts were about how technology allows authors to push further, with more freedom, but I didn't mention resolution once.