I thought viva pinata was absolute crap, Conker: Live and Reloaded was actually a good game..

Live and Reloaded didn't compare to the original. And quick question what is the second piñata that you get in VP?

Lemon was probably too harsh of a term, but there had been a steady (noticeable) decline in Rare's ability to deliver a high quality gaming experience on time and under budget throughout the life of the N64. Many of Rare's late N64 releases were in full development for 3 full years at a time where a typical videogame took 12 to 15 months to develop, and a big-budget blockbuster was typically in the 2 years range; and this would have been acceptable if all of their games were the same quality as earlier N64 titles, but many games (Banjo-Tooie and Donkey Kong 64) were demonstrating the signs of a studio that had lost a lot of their design talent.

Certainly, Microsoft buying Rare caused a lot of people to flee the company and made a bad situation worse; but Rare was already in pretty-bad shape long before Microsoft got there. It is likely that had Nintendo maintained their relationship with Rare, Rare probably would have released more than Starfox Adventures last generation; but (unless something drastic happened) it is likely that each of these games would have been a $20+ Million effort to get a game that was just above average in quality.

Edit: To put it another way, a lot of people have been critical of Nintendo not continuing second-party relationships with Rare and Silicone Knights; and for not making Free-Radical design or Factor 5 second party studios. In hindsight, with how these studios have performed in recent time, it should be clear that Nintendo potentially evaluated these companies and saw the problems that caused their recent falls from grace.

That isn't the only game they released last gen. They also released Grabbed by Ghoulies and Conker: Live and Unloaded. Nad if they had stayed with Nintendo they would have more then likely would have gotten Kameo out the door as well

They have also managed to release 6 games this gen. Kameo, Viva Pinata, TiP, Perfect dark Zero, Jetpac, and Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. They also managed to help Bungie with Halo 3 as well as being a major part on NXE, and helping 4j studios with several ports.  I think that is a pretty good list of accomplishments for four years into this gen, and I would like to see another dev that has been able to accomplish this much stuff in four years

Your right Nintendo did definatly look at Silicon Knights and Factor5. I know from interviews from Silicon Knights that Nintendo wasn't too impressed with Too Human which was Silicon's baby. Nintendo knew Silicon was determined to make Too Human and Nintendo didn't approve of it, that probubly is what lead to the falling out in which Silicon Knights and Nintendo Canada split ways.

As for Factor5. Nintendo knew that Factor5 was obsessed with always using cutting edge graphics. They knew the Wii wasn't going to have the graphical power to keep Factor5 happy. So Nintendo likely chose not to invest in Factor5 which turned out to be a smart idea as Factor5 has self destructed.

Retro was the only developer Nintendo expressed vast intrest in. Probubly because the studio was developing five IP's for the GameCube at a time when other developers were shying away. Nintendo likely saw their dedication to Nintendo's platform as reassuring and the IP's they were designing were thought provoking. Nintendo probubly viewed them as the new Rare.

DO you have any links to support these "facts"

Games like Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero began development on the Gamecube a full year before it launched, and were in development for a full 5 years before they launched on the XBox 360; and Conker: Live and reloaded was an enhanced port/remake of a N64 game. When you consider that Rare was one of the largest contained development studios in the world, and were capable of developing several titles for multiple platforms (console and handheld) at the same time, the fact that they have only released a handful of above-average games in a decade demonstrates how slow and unproductive they became as a studio.

Ever since Rare left Nintendo, I've just been less than happy with their games.

You are way too pro sony and negative Microsoft with your topics. I have yet to see you post anything positive for MS...

Lastgengamer -1

^ Huh? I am almost never negative my self. I just look for interesting news. I'll post something positive for Microsoft if I can post it before someone else does. Oh wait here is something positive I posted for the Xbox 360 recently.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=92994&page=1

Don't shoot the messenger.