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Forums - Sales - Level 5 : JRPG's LOOSING Momentum in Japan, FF13 can HELP JRPG's in west!

Riachu on 22 November 2009
OctaBech said:
dobby985 said:
jarrod said:
outlawauron said:

That's all worldwide and most people are saying there's not a chance in hell that it'll sell that well.

Square Enix themselves expect 10 million worldwide.  Wada said it'll seell less in Japan than usual, but more in the west thanks to being multiplatform.

It is not going to sell 10 million. I will be willing to request a month ban if it does.

Considering what I've seen from the demo I'm in on the one month ban too.

 

I just can see the western market being too keen on the character design, the ultra narrow linear levels, the abrubtive battle introductions and so forth. It was easier back in the FF 7 days with the muddy graphics and hardware enduced gameplay restraints making the cultural barriers less obvious.

I can see why they would criticize the linear level designs and battle introductions.  But I don't see why they hate Nomura's character designs because the "too many belts and zippers" excuse is getting old.



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

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theprof00 on 22 November 2009
Cheebee said:
theprof00 said:
OMG If I see "loosing" it one more time I am going to LOSE it

Agreed, it's quite frightening how terrible a lot of people's spelling is here, and on the internet in general... I mean I know there are a lot of nationalities and all, bit still, come on. Come on!

I can at least tell that when you wrote "bit still" it was a typo, and not purposely written as such.

My second most infuriating internet fail is "should/would/could OF". Yes, it SOUNDS like "should of" but that's because it's "should've" ARRRGGGH



DragonLord on 22 November 2009

The problem isn't that JRPGs are losing momentum in Japan, it's that they are almost non-existent on the ps3 (and that's about to change).  All of the ps3's releases in Japan have either been super low budget, ports from the 360, new IP's (Valkyria Chronicles), or SRPGs (other than WKC which did well).  That is about to change with the release of FFXIII and RoF.  Even Star Ocean 4, a port, should do well.

What Japan needs is a traditional, non SRPG, with a decent budget and cutscenes.  And NOT a new IP.  Some perfect examples would be Final Fantasy, Dark Cloud 3, KH3, Xenosaga, Dragon Quest, Persona 5, etc.  Put one of those out and see if the Japanese JRPG "momentum" is still gone.

 



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outlawauron on 22 November 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
outlawauron said:
jarrod said:
outlawauron said:

That's all worldwide and most people are saying there's not a chance in hell that it'll sell that well.

Square Enix themselves expect 10 million worldwide.  Wada said it'll seell less in Japan than usual, but more in the west thanks to being multiplatform.

I know they expect that, but most people outside of SE think that's absolutely crazy.

The Source thinks it possible, maybe even likely too

I think it's possible, but just so incredibly unlikely.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

loves2splooge on 22 November 2009

The PS3 has been starved of big jrpg IPs up until this point, that is true. They either went to another console (first in the case of ToV and SO4), went to handhelds or dissappeared. This probably explains why Famitsu predicts low figures for FFXIII (1.5m while FF13 did 2.42m in Japan). But it doesn't look like the situation is going to get a whole lot better in terms of getting big name jrpg IPs (aside from Final Fantasy and a late port of SO4 which won't sell much better than ToV did). The NIS and Dust jrpgs are starting to flood in but they were never more than niche even on the PS2.

A list of PS2 franchises that sold more than White Knight Chronicles (I think it's an appropriate cut-off to use since it's the top selling PS3 jrpg in Japan):

Dragon Quest - Nintendo exclusive
Final Fantasy - upcoming releases (FFXIII, Versus). Famitsu estimates sales to be much lower than FFXII in Japan. 1.5m vs. 2.42m
Kingdom Hearts - DS, no console plans?
Tales - the late port hurt sales potential (sold less than WKC).
Star Ocean - the late port will hurt sales potential (probably won't sell much more than ToV. Maybe less even)
Monster Hunter - PSP/Wii
Saga Series - ?
Xenosaga - ?
Valkyrie Profile - DS. No console plans?
Suikoden - DS. No console plans?

The rest of the IPs are too small to really make a difference so I'm not going to bother naming them. ie. Persona 4 sold less than White Knight Chronicles in Japan.

Resonance of Fate won't play much of a factor. Unless Famitsu is horribly, horribly wrong (their estimates were very low). And honestly I trust a Japanese publication's evaluation of the Japanese market more than the evaluations of gaijins who don't live there.

With the PS3 being starved of big IPs for the most part (excluding Final Fantasy), Nintendo home consoles being unable to sell jrpgs all that well since the N64, and the 360 having an uphill battle to face in the Japanese market, the console jrpg market isn't in a healthy state.



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Crazymann on 22 November 2009
marc said:
invetedlotus123 said:
Don't offend FFX like this! Sure the game have it's mistakes, but still awesome to many!

It's all okay with don't liking it, but just don't call it garbage!

Anyway, this proves my point that Japanese industry of RPG are relying in FFXIII to bring the momentum again to the jrpg in west. This game such a huge responsibility, it have to regenerate the interest in the genre, regenerate the FF series itself and even reaffirm Japan as gaming producers.

What I think will be a problem to convince FPS people to try it, I mean, even if they spend 150 million in marketing like Activision did with MW2 they won't reach the same results(or will?). People in West are much more interested in fighting terrorists and shoot people in street than in summonings magical creatures and discovering a fantasy world.

Resonance of Fate seems to be able to make the transition easier, the game play fuses some shooting and hack'n'slash elements.

Actions speak louder than words. The fact remains, that the entire FF series started to decline right after FFVI.

Also for the record, games like Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age, Morrowind/Oblivion, Diablo, and every other MMO on earth are all fantasy based RPGish games that sell well in the west. Its not fantasy that we shun, its the games themselves that have not innovated. I hope FF is a good game because I really miss JRPG's but at the same time I cant imagine myself playing them when I have these other games that I believe are vastly superior in every way. Hopefully, FF proves there is still some innovation left in the genre.


Editied for content.  Also, I realize that everyone has their own opinion, but I am having more fun with Dragon Age now, than with any any RPG since FF6 (3) on the SNES.  Honestly, for me, jrpgs are just not enjoyable anymore.  I tried to get into them, I really did, but they jsut don't resonate with me anymore.   I do have very high hopes that Versus will bring me back into the fold.



Riachu on 22 November 2009
loves2splooge said:

The PS3 has been starved of big jrpg IPs up until this point, that is true. They either went to another console (first in the case of ToV and SO4), went to handhelds or dissappeared. This probably explains why Famitsu predicts low figures for FFXIII (1.5m while FF13 did 2.42m in Japan). But it doesn't look like the situation is going to get a whole lot better in terms of getting big name jrpg IPs (aside from Final Fantasy and a late port of SO4 which won't sell much better than ToV did). The NIS and Dust jrpgs are starting to flood in but they were never more than niche even on the PS2.

A list of PS2 franchises that sold more than White Knight Chronicles (I think it's an appropriate cut-off to use since it's the top selling PS3 jrpg in Japan):

Dragon Quest - Nintendo exclusive
Final Fantasy - upcoming releases (FFXIII, Versus). Famitsu estimates sales to be much lower than FFXII in Japan. 1.5m vs. 2.42m
Kingdom Hearts - DS, no console plans?
Tales - the late port hurt sales potential (sold less than WKC).
Star Ocean - the late port will hurt sales potential (probably won't sell much more than ToV. Maybe less even)
Monster Hunter - PSP/Wii
Saga Series - ?
Xenosaga - ?
Valkyrie Profile - DS. No console plans?
Suikoden - DS. No console plans?

The rest of the IPs are too small to really make a difference so I'm not going to bother naming them. ie. Persona 4 sold less than White Knight Chronicles in Japan.

Resonance of Fate won't play much of a factor. Unless Famitsu is horribly, horribly wrong (their estimates were very low). And honestly I trust a Japanese publication's evaluation of the Japanese market more than the evaluations of gaijins who don't live there.

With the PS3 being starved of big IPs for the most part (excluding Final Fantasy), Nintendo home consoles being unable to sell jrpgs all that well since the N64, and the 360 having an uphill battle to face in the Japanese market, the console jrpg market isn't in a healthy state.

What did they estimate?  I didn't know they predicted how much a game will sell in Japan.



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

outlawauron on 22 November 2009
loves2splooge said:

The PS3 has been starved of big jrpg IPs up until this point, that is true. They either went to another console (first in the case of ToV and SO4), went to handhelds or dissappeared. This probably explains why Famitsu predicts low figures for FFXIII (1.5m while FF13 did 2.42m in Japan). But it doesn't look like the situation is going to get a whole lot better in terms of getting big name jrpg IPs (aside from Final Fantasy and a late port of SO4 which won't sell much better than ToV did). The NIS and Dust jrpgs are starting to flood in but they were never more than niche even on the PS2.

A list of PS2 franchises that sold more than White Knight Chronicles (I think it's an appropriate cut-off to use since it's the top selling PS3 jrpg in Japan):

Dragon Quest - Nintendo exclusive
Final Fantasy - upcoming releases (FFXIII, Versus). Famitsu estimates sales to be much lower than FFXII in Japan. 1.5m vs. 2.42m
Kingdom Hearts - DS, no console plans?
Tales - the late port hurt sales potential (sold less than WKC).
Star Ocean - the late port will hurt sales potential (probably won't sell much more than ToV. Maybe less even)
Monster Hunter - PSP/Wii
Saga Series - ?
Xenosaga - ?
Valkyrie Profile - DS. No console plans?
Suikoden - DS. No console plans?

The rest of the IPs are too small to really make a difference so I'm not going to bother naming them. ie. Persona 4 sold less than White Knight Chronicles in Japan.

Resonance of Fate won't play much of a factor. Unless Famitsu is horribly, horribly wrong (their estimates were very low). And honestly I trust a Japanese publication's evaluation of the Japanese market more than the evaluations of gaijins who don't live there.

With the PS3 being starved of big IPs for the most part (excluding Final Fantasy), Nintendo home consoles being unable to sell jrpgs all that well since the N64, and the 360 having an uphill battle to face in the Japanese market, the console jrpg market isn't in a healthy state.

I wouldn't count WKC out for outselling some of those franchises.

It'll likely outsell Suikoden III (only needs 20k).

It won't touch Xenosaga Epi. 1, but it has already outsold II and III.

That isn't too bad for new ip. If WKC 2 is better, then I can see it doing even better than the first.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

jarrod on 23 November 2009
loves2splooge said:

With the PS3 being starved of big IPs for the most part (excluding Final Fantasy), Nintendo home consoles being unable to sell jrpgs all that well since the N64, and the 360 having an uphill battle to face in the Japanese market, the console jrpg market isn't in a healthy state.

Er, if anything Wii's been the most starved of traditional JRPGs this gen, much moreso than PS3.  Which makes little sense given it far and away has the largest userbase (both in Japan and worldwide).



jarrod on 23 November 2009
outlawauron said:
jarrod said:
outlawauron said:

That's all worldwide and most people are saying there's not a chance in hell that it'll sell that well.

Square Enix themselves expect 10 million worldwide.  Wada said it'll seell less in Japan than usual, but more in the west thanks to being multiplatform.

I know they expect that, but most people outside of SE think that's absolutely crazy.

Well, I don't disagree.  Wada expected 5m in Japan alone for DQIX and that's clearly not happening either.

Interestingly, 10m was also Square's original target for FFX back in 2001.