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Forums - Sony - Sony: The Dumbest Guys in the Room

Xoj on 09 November 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Xoj said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Xoj said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
supercat said:
 

Samsung is the leader of a declining market ( LCD TVS).  

I follow the HDTV business in addition to gaming, and by 2017 or 2018, OLED TV's are expected to be as cheap as LCD TVs or slightly below cost, and are expected to offer more vivid pictures, matchbook thin , uses 1/3 of a lcd tv's electricity.  Sony also has made the 1st OLED TV, so it undoubtedly holds the biggest amount of Intellectual property for them.  With the OLED tvs and Blu ray, Sony is basically in some ways turning itself into an IP company as well as electronics/movies/music. 

All companies currently have OLED on the market, and while Sony ranks as some of the most expensive....you see the samsung OLED commercials on during football games.

You know why?

Explain what flashlighting is to the nice people, supercat, and then talk about clouding and screen uniformity.

You can't serious be saying that Sony is leading in the HDTV market under any technology lable right now? You are predicting the future, right? Well, there is no proprietary technology inherant to OLED, and if you're implying that Sony got a headstart in development of this tech, we'll they've already fallen behind, an NOTHING about their plasma or LCD lines make me believe they are capable of producing a cost effecient OLED capable of leading the market.

LED are not the same as OLED.

sony doesn't make plasma i think, and they already have 40' full HD but they are still expensive again they expect in couple of years to have that kind of TV for the same LCD.

Good point, I apologize. I was misunderstanding the discussion. OLED refers to the display panel itself. So-called "LED TVs" are really LED backlit TVs , the panel itself being standard LCD. Only the backlight is different in a "LED TV" - using LEDs instead of CCFL or HCFL (cold or hot cathode fluorescent lighting). So in reality they should be called "LED backlit" TVs - but marketeers got in the way of total truthfulness.

That said, and despite it all, I was right about Samsung leading the way in OLED technology. Forgive me for misspeaking, and I was actually referring to the LED's in my original post.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/30/samsung-drops-jaws-with-40-inch-1080p-oled-display/

sony also have 40/ full hd tv they are also paper thin. almost a year ago.

from 2008

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/03/ceatec-2008-sonys-spectacular-03mm-curved-oled-tv-and-40%E2%80%9D-full-hd-99mm-bravia-2-videos/

OLED's are all Sony has left against Samsung. It's not much to babble about though. I don't see a reason to make a switch from LCD to an OLED. Samsung has the better LCD's which are still the strongest kind, then comes plasma and Samsung still owns at that with their series 7.

OLED have  better contrast, faster response, colors, and recently matches LCD life. they are also thinner because they won't require  backlight , easier to transport saving alot in shipping. there is not reason to not change, especially if manufactures deliver it at a similar price.



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Avinash_Tyagi on 09 November 2009
Xoj said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
GameAnalyser said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Its not about milking its about business sense, and Sony has very little apparently, its not about giving things away from free or not, its about doing things that don't hurt you.

Part of the reason the PS3 is doing so badly is they focused so heavily on Blu-ray, if they hadn't put it in and focused on games, they might be in second place instead of MS and making a profit, but by pushing it, they ended up in last and are still losing money on the PS3.

And giving away Netflix is all well and good for the consumer, but after killing your gaming division by sticking in Blu-Ray, now you're going to give it free competition by offering one of the things that is killing Blu-Ray, talk about really bad decisions.

The PSP Go was a horrible decision, yeah lets release a gimped version of our Handheld, for more than our other version, which can do the exact same stuff and more. Heck the lack of software on the PSP from day one has been a problem, for some reason Sony got so focused on the Hardware, that they forgot the PSP and PS3 need to be gaming systems first.

Now look at Nintendo, they've made tons of smart decisions, that even now, in a down year, they are still making mad amounts of Money, even MS, has finally made the Xbox profitable, and the thing is MS can actually afford to waste money, because they still make gobs of profits in their other divisions, Sony can't, as they are getting beat across the board.

Sony better get smart or the PS4 may be the last console from them.


Who said the  Sony's gaming division is killed thru Blue-Ray?...the previous Xbox which came with a Hard-Drive had lost billions summing up to 25-26 mn units sold world-wide and that didn't hurt the M$'s gaming division. Nintendo had bad times with Game-Cube as well. And now they are enjoying.

Well PS3 isn't out from the race, it's slowly climbing up in the H/W sales with the price-tag that remained the biggest constraint so far until September. The Console's sales have stabilised to 240-250K in World-wide Weekly and it definitely has the potential to pick up steam and end 2nd place this gen. You are just cherry-picking few instances to make the closest rival 360 look like the profitable and even bragging abt the M$ money which can keep the console still in the market. Nintendo without doubt are making insane money and all the credits goes to their marketing strategies.

Sony just needs PS3 selling as currently as it is(thanx to the Slim) and not PS4 to make up for the inital losses incurred thru production costs. Giving away free isn't a stupid strategy, Wii has it as well. It is a competition that's asking for the challenge.

 

It made the console $599, and since 360 shares much of its library, which console do you think most people preferred, until the recent price cut and Slim launch, the 360 was beating the PS3.

Yeah its climbing, until MS cuts another $100 off the 360, then either Sony loses even more money or goes back to third place.

The only way Sony can keep the PS3 selling like it is, is if they continue to lose money on the PS3, because that's the only way they'll be able to counter MS's future price cuts.

same goes for the  360, the only reason 360 was outselling it because it went for 2 price cuts in a year,  and there was 200$ difference.

yet PS3 still more expensive, lowest priced ps3 match elite price, highest pricest Ps3 it's 350$-399$.

and eve so ps3 it's vastly outselling the 360. the only think that microsoft can do its cutting the price arcade to 130$ and the elite to 230$ (or even less).

if they go higher than that they will what the ps3 it's doing now.

Ah, but the point is, MS can afford to price cut, in a price war, MS will win, because they make profit as a company while Sony does not, and MS has enjoyed some recent quarters of profit from their games division, if MS pulls the trigger on big price cuts, Sony will be in trouble and will either have to cut and lose even more money or see their recent sales gains deteriorate, Sony has put themselves in a no win situation



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

S.T.A.G.E. on 09 November 2009
Xoj said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Xoj said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Xoj said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
supercat said:
 

Samsung is the leader of a declining market ( LCD TVS).  

I follow the HDTV business in addition to gaming, and by 2017 or 2018, OLED TV's are expected to be as cheap as LCD TVs or slightly below cost, and are expected to offer more vivid pictures, matchbook thin , uses 1/3 of a lcd tv's electricity.  Sony also has made the 1st OLED TV, so it undoubtedly holds the biggest amount of Intellectual property for them.  With the OLED tvs and Blu ray, Sony is basically in some ways turning itself into an IP company as well as electronics/movies/music. 

All companies currently have OLED on the market, and while Sony ranks as some of the most expensive....you see the samsung OLED commercials on during football games.

You know why?

Explain what flashlighting is to the nice people, supercat, and then talk about clouding and screen uniformity.

You can't serious be saying that Sony is leading in the HDTV market under any technology lable right now? You are predicting the future, right? Well, there is no proprietary technology inherant to OLED, and if you're implying that Sony got a headstart in development of this tech, we'll they've already fallen behind, an NOTHING about their plasma or LCD lines make me believe they are capable of producing a cost effecient OLED capable of leading the market.

LED are not the same as OLED.

sony doesn't make plasma i think, and they already have 40' full HD but they are still expensive again they expect in couple of years to have that kind of TV for the same LCD.

Good point, I apologize. I was misunderstanding the discussion. OLED refers to the display panel itself. So-called "LED TVs" are really LED backlit TVs , the panel itself being standard LCD. Only the backlight is different in a "LED TV" - using LEDs instead of CCFL or HCFL (cold or hot cathode fluorescent lighting). So in reality they should be called "LED backlit" TVs - but marketeers got in the way of total truthfulness.

That said, and despite it all, I was right about Samsung leading the way in OLED technology. Forgive me for misspeaking, and I was actually referring to the LED's in my original post.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/30/samsung-drops-jaws-with-40-inch-1080p-oled-display/

sony also have 40/ full hd tv they are also paper thin. almost a year ago.

from 2008

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/03/ceatec-2008-sonys-spectacular-03mm-curved-oled-tv-and-40%E2%80%9D-full-hd-99mm-bravia-2-videos/

OLED's are all Sony has left against Samsung. It's not much to babble about though. I don't see a reason to make a switch from LCD to an OLED. Samsung has the better LCD's which are still the strongest kind, then comes plasma and Samsung still owns at that with their series 7.

OLED have  better contrast, faster response, colors, and recently matches LCD life. they are also thinner because they won't require  backlight , easier to transport saving alot in shipping. there is not reason to not change, especially if manufactures deliver it at a similar price.

Thats cool bro, but it still isn't mass market. Even Panasonic is ahead of Sony with their TC's and this year TC-PV10 and TC-PG10 second and third of 2009 only to Samsungs UNB85000 in quality.



S.T.A.G.E. on 09 November 2009
Xoj said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Xoj said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Xoj said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
 

Good point, I apologize. I was misunderstanding the discussion. OLED refers to the display panel itself. So-called "LED TVs" are really LED backlit TVs , the panel itself being standard LCD. Only the backlight is different in a "LED TV" - using LEDs instead of CCFL or HCFL (cold or hot cathode fluorescent lighting). So in reality they should be called "LED backlit" TVs - but marketeers got in the way of total truthfulness.

That said, and despite it all, I was right about Samsung leading the way in OLED technology. Forgive me for misspeaking, and I was actually referring to the LED's in my original post.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/30/samsung-drops-jaws-with-40-inch-1080p-oled-display/

sony also have 40/ full hd tv they are also paper thin. almost a year ago.

from 2008

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/03/ceatec-2008-sonys-spectacular-03mm-curved-oled-tv-and-40%E2%80%9D-full-hd-99mm-bravia-2-videos/

Yeah, but the speculation is they've fallen behind, and as Samsung have shown, if anything, they aren't far ahead.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&categoryId=8198552921644539854&langId=-1

they are actually selling it already and expect wise it's far ahead many LCDs now, the thing it's quite expensive.

but thats will be for a while, thanks for the materials they expect to be cheap in a couple of years and even be same as LCD.

That technology has a long way to go. More than 2 years before it's as cheap as LCD.

sadly.. but i will buy one =) sony 40 ' 1,000,000 contrast 9.9mm thin its 2500$ now though.

Actually...thats quite a normal price for a new Sony item. I say pick it up.



Nightwish224 on 09 November 2009
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Sony is nothing compared to Samsung. Seriously, that shouldn't even be challenged. Most people who buy Sony today are buying a name that was top notch in the 90's.

I love Samsung. Best TV ever!



Everyone needs to play Lost Odyssey! Any opposition to this and I will have to just say, "If it's a fight you want, you got it!"

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blackops on 09 November 2009
newtgat said:

I have multiple Samsung LCD TVs and have been more than satisfied.  In fact, as they are the official TV of the Xbox 360, I wish they were in charge of creating/designing 360s.  They'd last a hell of a lot longer.

Did u think the official 360 tv would be sony tv?lol




Get your Portable ID!

 

Joelcool7 on 09 November 2009

Sony isn't the dumbest guys in the room, they are just the sore loosers. If PS3 wasn't such a flop I'm sure Sony would be charging for every feature they currently offer free. The only reason were getting so many good deals is because Sony is desperatly trying to claw back marketshare from Microsoft and not possible but their trying anyways Nintendo...

By offering free features, cheaper downloads, digital distributed movies they are hoping to make up for some lost ground. Just look how fast the PS3 is gaining on Microsoft. Every month Sony is getting one step closer to Microsoft and Microsoft knows it. About time for the next generation to start "Microsoft quit while your ahead!"



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Kasz216 on 09 November 2009

Samsung passed Sony because they make better TVs and have for a long time.

That and currency issues haven't hurt Samsung like it has Sony.

TV margins are razor thin you know.

 

 

Sony isn't dumb... the way they just did buisness was out of style... they're CEO knew it but nobody let him change things.

They weren't the dumbest guys in the room.  They were just the most stubborn.



Kasz216 on 09 November 2009
supercat said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Xoj said:

Samsung service it's shit, and so are their products.
while the give the image of being better quality their products are built of cheap things that break in a month.

by experience my LCD only lasted a month, and they had to repair it, after repairs it still not picking channels like it should. and they don't want to exchange it.

You're joking right. Do you follow HDTV? Samsung is considered the leader in PQ/price ratio amongst top end HDTVs and their LN52B750 has destroyed the competition this year in the LCD market, and is already a shoe in for "best traditional LCD of all time" without even hitting its second wave of releases.

Sure, with Sammy you play the panel lottery, but you do that with EVERY brand. With Sony, you get worse PQ in most cases at a much higher price, so WTF are you talking about? Are you just using your personal experience when you make those statements, or what?

@OP

Excellent post. People don't like negative things being said about Sony, but everything you've said is not only well thought out, it's absolutely true, and even Sony would agree with it, I'm afraid.

QFT. Some people just cannot take the truth.


Samsung is the leader of a declining market ( LCD TVS).  

I follow the HDTV business in addition to gaming, and by 2017 or 2018, OLED TV's are expected to be as cheap as LCD TVs or slightly below cost, and are expected to offer more vivid pictures, matchbook thin , uses 1/3 of a lcd tv's electricity.  Sony also has made the 1st OLED TV, so it undoubtedly holds the biggest amount of Intellectual property for them.  With the OLED tvs and Blu ray, Sony is basically in some ways turning itself into an IP company as well as electronics/movies/music. 

How much of the Blu-ray IP do you think Sony owns?

Cause, it's probably a lot less then you think.


Even if Blu-ray does DVD numbers... Sony won't make Toshiba money off it.



DirtyP2002 on 09 November 2009

From a business standpoint, Sony made a lot of bad decisions. Think about it, you have to be VERY stupid to come from the undisputed market leader to 3rd place AND losing billions of USD. I can't believe we are actually arguing about this. Just look at the numbers in Sonys financial reports since 2006 (2005 with R&D).

And Samsung is the best LCD-manufacturer ever. We do have three Samsung LCDs (37" / 40" / 46") and all of them are working great. No problems at all. Well if they weren't working, we would have bought another one.

The Xbox Live fees are not even worth it, they are a huge money-maker. 13 million gold subscribers, paying 50USD a year. Isn't it ironic that this is the amount Sony needed last Q to be profitable?

Offering stuff for free is fine, but at the end of the day, they are running a business. They have to charge money soon. Losing money with the hardware and losing money with online is simply too much.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...