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Forums - Sony - Sony: The Dumbest Guys in the Room

ironman said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
^Its a bad Idea when it makes your system $600, and still selling at a loss

For the company that killed its marketshare and profits to push Blu-Ray, yes it is

At launch it didn't

Well yes, this is absolutely true. Although is Sony's defense, they thought they were setting themselves up to collect on Bluray in the future...then along came digital distribution...which is something that nobody could have seen at the time.  

sony also sells movies digitally you know, they have their own store, and sell their music and movies in other stores ;).



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Dgc1808 said:
nen-suer said:
Dgc1808 said:

1) It seems that Netflix on PS3 is more of a move from Netflix, rather than SONY. Sony are supporting their own Video store on PSN, so I'm thinking SONY are probably getting some sort of Royalty fee payment out of the movies sold by Neflix on PS3.

2) Said it before and I'll say it again. THe PSPGO isn't a fuckin relaunch. It's SONY giving customers another option. One that's clearly a more profitable one for them. If it was a relaunch, the PSP3000 wouldn't be here.

3) The PS3 was made to establish new technology for future projects [also ones including the PS brand]. It was made to help IBM's Cell, Rambus' XDR and BDA's Blu-Ray to gain some earlier ground. AND IT's BEEN WORKING. Bluray won the format war and is expanding well. Major manufacturers like Toshiba and a few others are looking at, manufacuring or already selling Cell based computers and home electronics like HDTV's. not sure what's going on in XDR front. New tech means new development tactics developers had to use. It's not harder, just different. Many dev's have been saying this. There are just a few dev that don't want to learn new dev tactics and just go with the the familiar 360/PC layout and claim it's because the PS3 is too much work.

4) MS are the only ones charging for online. SONY's revenue from ads, PSStore and Royalty fees. Free Online is also considered one of the major advantages to owning a PS3 over a 360, which helps to bring in customers.

5) We still have quite some time before the controller launches... don't freak just yet.

Everything you mentioned has both positives and negatives to it. Some can be seen as advantages or disadvantages. Depends on what SONY plans to do, which you don't know...

I agreee with this

I think you're the only one that read my post...

Nope. He is not the only person. I just didn't wanna participate in this long flamebait argument.  Most ppl here are unwilling to change change point of view or listen.  So why waste my time?  Thank you for being a voice of reason.  Its not like Sony could have predicted a worldwide recession or the fact that Microsoft and Nintendo would actually advertise aggressively this generation.

1.  Some people on this board call BR a failure.  If it is then wouldn't it make sense for Sony to compete via DD.  PSPGo proves they aren't against the idea. I guess Sony just can't win racing to please people or not.

2.  I think the PSPGo will be 199 starting next fiscal year.  After they make a little bit of extra profit this holiday.  They can reintroduce a 32GB model for 249.  I think Sony is looking at Apples model and trying to effectively imitate with future PSP releases.

3. If Sony abandons even XDR and Blu-Ray if they continue to use the cell processor for future playstation products they ensure easy BC and save costs getting familiar with a new architecture.  If only PSP2 and PS4 use a cell they probably save tons of money in the long run.

4. Sony has a tradition of free online play starting with some experiments on the PS and it's PS2 games before xbox was even on the scene.  I'm going to laugh when the 360 is 99 and people are paying half the price of the system just to play games online with their friends on it.

5.  Microsoft started advertising Natal too early in my opinion.  Sony and Microsoft should have waited for the last minute reveal like Nintendo and their controller.  



Xoj said:
ironman said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
^Its a bad Idea when it makes your system $600, and still selling at a loss

For the company that killed its marketshare and profits to push Blu-Ray, yes it is

At launch it didn't

Well yes, this is absolutely true. Although is Sony's defense, they thought they were setting themselves up to collect on Bluray in the future...then along came digital distribution...which is something that nobody could have seen at the time.  

sony also sells movies digitally you know, they have their own store, and sell their music and movies in other stores ;).

Yes, but at the time, it was small potatoes. So..yeah, moot point



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!



Sidious said:

4.  Giving away online for free.  Sure it made a good bullet point against Microsoft but one has to wonder if they understand how much money they have thrown away because of it.  It's much harder to make people pay for something after they're used to having it for free.  Also what happens years from now when the Playstation 3 reaches a price point where people that only buy used games pick it up and Sony still has to support them?


Is it not stated that any and all support for games can be terminated at anytime? usually on the game box or something? I might be wrong.

PSWii60 owner! woot


Get your Portable ID!

Sidious said:

I was just reading about Samsung's record profits this past quarter and it begs the question, why is one of Sony's main competitors doing so well while Sony struggles in almost every market it's competing in?  Even with videogames they have to sell their system at a loss and with what must be the most expensive internal hardware just to compete.  It begs the question, do these guys even think about some of the boneheaded moves they have been making the past few years?

Here are just a few that simply make no sense:


1.  Adding Netflix to the Playstation 3 for free.  It's great that Sony seems to like to give almost everything away for free or at a loss but what was the point in pretty much handing over their marketshare leadership to Nintendo and losing so much money helping Blu-Ray if they're going to end up helping its competition for free?  Blu-Ray is one of the few bright spots for Sony, even though they're facing anger over Blu-Ray fees, so why in the World are they working against those adopting the format by supporting the competition?

Netflix is free on 360 too, you just need a gold membership. The whole Netflix deal goes sour once you figure in cost of netflix, cost of internet, and cost of xboxlive.

"It's great that Sony seems to like to give almost everything away for free or at a loss but what was the point in pretty much handing over their marketshare leadership to Nintendo and losing so much money helping Blu-Ray if they're going to end up helping its competition for free?"- What the hell are you talking about?

2.  Ensuring that the PSP relaunch was a disaster by following the same idiotic pricing mindset that already proved to be a disaster with the Playstation 3.  This was supposed to be the year that the PSP would regain momentum in North America and Europe and now we're seeing amazing low sales of both the PSP Go and PSP games.   Just looking at Gran Turismo PSP sales must be driving some third-parties that believed in the new launch to just shake their heads and wonder how they were taken yet again by Sony.

PSP did better last week than any other console except the ps3...

We also don't know what kind of legs this will have. If PSPgo ends up adding 15-16% every single week from now on, then it has served it's purpose. There are two ways to keep sales up. Drop the price, or come out with a new, different product. Nintendo does it with the expanded audience, MS does it with the many HW models and slight slight price drops they've had, and sony is doing is with the pspgo.

3.  Stating that they purposely made the Playstation 3 harder to develop for.  Was anyone at Sony not drinking the Kool-Aid long enough to realize that making it more costly and longer to develop for would also affect their own first-party game development?  Why didn't they just go with more traditional hardware that would have been cheaper and easier to develop for?  It's hard to imagine how many hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars could have been saved in the process.

This was a PR mistake, that ,obviously, was taken the wrong way by the public. I blame the translation. They didn't make it harder to develop for the sake of making it hard to develop. They made the development complex, because you can do a lot more with complex systems than easier ones. Let's use the cell as an example. Each core handles different processes. This is more complex than just having one core handling everything. However, when the information is each handled by a specialized core, they can work more efficiently, and thus, push out more performance.

4.  Giving away online for free.  Sure it made a good bullet point against Microsoft but one has to wonder if they understand how much money they have thrown away because of it.  It's much harder to make people pay for something after they're used to having it for free.  Also what happens years from now when the Playstation 3 reaches a price point where people that only buy used games pick it up and Sony still has to support them?

I agree, they could at least charge 10$ a year. With, maybe 10 million users, that could equal 100M.. that's a good chunk of change. They could throw in a free download as well or something, if they want to have a bullet point.

5.  Allowing both Nintendo and Microsoft to be in the media spotlight over their motion control schemes while Sony pitches theirs to the same crowd that already bought the Playstation 3.  When was the last time you heard anyone but the gaming media talk about Sony's motion controller?  It's supposed to be coming out in six months and it has the buzz of non-alcoholic beer.  Does someone at Sony think that Resident Evil 4 on the Wii was reponsible for that console's success because that it the only game we're even hearing much of anything about.

I think Sony knows what it is doing with their marketing. We will see a lot more about it when it comes closer to the release. No point hyping the product now, when it's at least 6 months away. Natal made a good impression on a lot of the mainstream media, but let's wait and see what kind of games and price point MS is going to market when it comes time. The strength sony has right now is their core motion tech. Wii motion+ is an uprade. Of course the people don't know this, but I know Sony will market it like this, showing exaclty what it can do, separating it from the wii controller. This is a good point you've brought up, but it's debatable.

I could go on about their rapidly growing losses in cell phones or their amazing loss of the portable music market to Apple but since this is a website devoted to videogames it goes a little too off-topic.  For those Sony supports and even other out there, is there a method to Sony's madness, and if not what is going on with them?

Apple has a huge fanbase who love their products. Apple, a lot like Nintendo, has found a huge market with a more casual market. IPhone has recently been called the worst phone of all time. There's a lot of compatibility problems with Apple's products and they are very expensive. But to the mainstream audience, that doesn't matter, it's just a fact of life.

And everyone is having trouble in those two markets, not just sony. The main problem is marketing. Sony needs some money to advertise and they don't really have enough to go around. Sony walkman and ericcson need to start advertising the way apple or any other company does in order to compete. Do you realize how much those companies spend on advertising? Apple has probably spent a billion on marketing just the ipod, and probably just as much on the iphone.

All in all a couple good points, but they are by no means the dumbest guys in the room. Some of the things you don't understand are probably understood by them. They have hundreds of accountants and specialists of al kinds and have all kinds of forms and investigation that you have no idea of. Every company is like this, not just Sony, so it's a bad idea to pass judgment on a company's intelligence when you only know maybe 1/100th of the facts and how interdependent those facts are.

 



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yawn

Generic thread 10,000



Nobody's perfect. I aint nobody!!!

Killzone 2. its not a fps. it a FIRST PERSON WAR SIMULATOR!!!! ..The true PLAYSTATION 3 launch date and market dominations is SEP 1st

I hate samsung. I bought 2 mp3 players from them and they both broke within a month. Ipod still going strong 4 years later. Don't use it much anymore though.

Bought an LCD tv from them and 11 months later it decides to break. They really didn't want to repair it under warranty.

I also hate sony others products like Bravias, Vaios, Walkman, etc. because I think they are all overpriced. Only reason I like PS is for the games.



alanshearer said:
Can i ask the mods why these blatent flamebait threads are not being closed please?.

This thread was actually well thought out and presented. Only the title was flamebait, and then only to those blatantly biased and pro-Sony, AND EVEN THEN only if you don't understand the reference. It shouldn't be locked, imo.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Kasz216 said:
supercat said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Xoj said:

Samsung service it's shit, and so are their products.
while the give the image of being better quality their products are built of cheap things that break in a month.

by experience my LCD only lasted a month, and they had to repair it, after repairs it still not picking channels like it should. and they don't want to exchange it.

You're joking right. Do you follow HDTV? Samsung is considered the leader in PQ/price ratio amongst top end HDTVs and their LN52B750 has destroyed the competition this year in the LCD market, and is already a shoe in for "best traditional LCD of all time" without even hitting its second wave of releases.

Sure, with Sammy you play the panel lottery, but you do that with EVERY brand. With Sony, you get worse PQ in most cases at a much higher price, so WTF are you talking about? Are you just using your personal experience when you make those statements, or what?

@OP

Excellent post. People don't like negative things being said about Sony, but everything you've said is not only well thought out, it's absolutely true, and even Sony would agree with it, I'm afraid.

QFT. Some people just cannot take the truth.


Samsung is the leader of a declining market ( LCD TVS).  

I follow the HDTV business in addition to gaming, and by 2017 or 2018, OLED TV's are expected to be as cheap as LCD TVs or slightly below cost, and are expected to offer more vivid pictures, matchbook thin , uses 1/3 of a lcd tv's electricity.  Sony also has made the 1st OLED TV, so it undoubtedly holds the biggest amount of Intellectual property for them.  With the OLED tvs and Blu ray, Sony is basically in some ways turning itself into an IP company as well as electronics/movies/music. 

How much of the Blu-ray IP do you think Sony owns?

Cause, it's probably a lot less then you think.


Even if Blu-ray does DVD numbers... Sony won't make Toshiba money off it.

from what i've seen, the royalties aren't huge, mabey a dime per disc.  Still, that will add up when we get the 720, when we get the WIIhd, and even better, royalties tend to have a 50% profit margin its all gravy.  Anyway, me and you have discussed this before a few times I don't know what else to say or how I can rephrase.



Well, the market is changing faster than you guys think w/ respect to LCD vs OLED. The phone market is the most apparent right now, about half of samsung's phones in 2010 will have an OLED screen. Soon most or all of them will. Plasma was once at a stage where it was unknown as well...