Personally, i don't care for games like GTA, CoD, etc, etc... i don't miss them, and i don't view them as the most important games on the market... that's not the problem...

Problem is, you have to please all the consumers, or at least a maximum of the potential consumers, by offering a very good choice: that's a very simple law in every business out there... and that choice, for many gamers, has to include most of the best multiplatform games, now bein' exclusives to PS360, as well as some great exclusives for each console...

Nintendo has and always had great exclusives: their own games... but when some Nintendo's reps are tellin' that "Wii is a console for everybody"... if they want this to be REALLY true, then Wii needs to play the new Final fantasy, the new GTA, the new CoD, the new Bioshock, the new Resident Evil, the new Street Fighter, the new Assassin's Creed, the new Batman Arkham Asylum, the new Bayonetta, and so on and on...

Otherwise, it will be a great console, with many dedicated and happy gamers, but it won't be the "real" market leader it could have been, with the same weight as the PS2 last gen... and so, it will not see huge investments made by 3rd parties, who see maybe 48% of the home consoles gamers bein' Wii gamers (and amongst these, millions of multiplatform gamers, btw), but more than 60% of that market already taken by Nintendo's 1st party games...

If you also think of all the "mass market" peole who have bought a Wii ONLY for Wii Sports and Wii Fit, and won't buy tens and tens of other games, what's left, as far as "an healthy market for third parties" is concerned?

Just tell me, just show me: some "niche" games sellin between 200 and 500k? Some casual games sellin sometimes good, sometimes bad? And some music games sellin very good? And then? What will convince the 3rd parties?

Nintendo core gamers? They were 15-20 millions last gen on GC, and they're still the same, you know... they buy just as many games as any "avid" gamer out there, that's true, but are they THAT important in the eyes of 3rd parties?

And as the answer is no, say goodbye to the vast choice the other consoles may have... even with the Wii's success, we're in the same situation as during the N64-GC days, slightly better maybe, but only slightly... now, if that's good enough for you, great... but you have to understand that it's not good enough to attract much more "core" gamers, who ARE essential in this industry... like it or not...

Man, you don't have to tell me such things: I KNOW... i have "Little King's Story", and i LOVE it... and i'll buy "A Boy and his Blob" and "Muramasa" this month, on day one, as they're only released now in PAL land...

I'm just like you, and just like many here: i like great and original "niche" titles, i have such tastes, so I'M HAPPY with the Wii and its line-up...

But WE ARE EXCEPTIONS and WE ARE NOT ENOUGH... and these games, even if very creative and very original, are NOT "big budget" by any means... and WILL NOT attract any mass market, both the "casual mass market" and the "core mass market"...

Personally, i don't care for most of the following games, but as long as Wii won't play the new Grand Theft Auto, the new Assassin's Creed, the new Street Fighter, the new Resident Evil, the new Bioshock, the new Call of Duty, the new Final Fantasy, the new Batman Arkham Asylum, the new Bayonetta, etc, etc, etc, it will not be a FIRST CHOICE for the vast majority of "core" gamers... and for the vast majority of "core" third parties devs... just like PS2 was last gen, by example: for all the different types of games, niche as well as blockbusters... a very healthy market, and opportunities for everyone...

And so, Wii will stay a kind of "niche market" of its own, with a few "mass market" hits (often 1st party) makin' it a success... BUT, a too limited success... not enough to attract some "exclusive big budget" third parties efforts... and not even all the "multiplatform big budget" third parties efforts... i don't know how to explain myself better than this, sorry, english is my second language only... but i hope you get my point...  ;)

Whoa calm down there.

I don't really know what I have to say to make you happy.  I've already stated exactly what you have said in this thread.  Just not in my last post.  Yet everytime I try to say that the Wii has good games aside from just Nintendo games, its like people have to go crazy and say they're just junk titles or 'niche' titles or 'nothing that the core market wants'.

Yes, its true, many 'core' gamers want GTA or Halo or Final Fantasy.  Let's just face it, what you're really saying is gamers in America want graphics.  Because in Japan, they're ignoring consoles completely for handhelds, while in America, they're going for the games on the 'HD' systems.  Its not so much that the games on the Wii are 'niche' or 'kiddy'.  Its that the games on the Wii don't have as good of graphics, marketing and name brand recognition as the games on the 360 and PS3.  As I pointed out in a previous post.  A game like Disgaea or Persona, if released on the Wii instead of the PS2 or PS3, would have probably been deemed 'niche' and ignored.  Instead, they were released at different times and on 'better systems' in these peoples eyes.

Would it be better if Wii had better graphics?  Maybe...but then it might not have done what it did.  Maybe next gen it can have those better graphics.  You need to secure the market before you can dominate it.

Also, in reference to your last post, there's 43 Third Party games on the Wii which have sold over a million units.  Third Parties CAN sell well on the Wii when they try.  AKA when they produce an actual good game and follow through with it in ADVERTISING and actually stock the shelves with it.  Its just that most don't try.

Nintendo is actually losing the most important part of their fanbase, the core gamers. They are moving elsewhere and most have no interest in returning to the Wii, when the other consoles offer a lot more and a lot better. They are gaining new customers, that's true, but they are the ones that bought the Wii like an impulse buy and barely end up buying games other than the usual Wii___ stuff or a music game. That's why we don't see core games succeed on the Wii. There's simply too much coming out for the other consoles and after 3 years of waiting, most of the core gamers got tired and moved on. That's what's going on. I would even say that the core Nintendo fan is in risk of being lost by Nintendo themselves due to the lack of games as well.

And about the 43 million selling games, note that most of what you can call "core" in that list was released in the first years of the Wii, when people actually cared for the core experiences on it. There has been no big success this year outside of music games and fitness games, or MHTri, which is only big in Japan. And not all of the games in there are quality games, far from it.

Actually all the Million Selling Third Party games were released across the first three years, not just all at once.  Games all the way up to 2008 sold a million as well.  You haven't seen one from this year sell a million yet probably because they haven't had time.  Though Monster Hunter Tri will.  But I was bringing up the point not as a competition of 'who can sell a million', but trying to show that This Parties CAN sell well, when they actually put forth the effort.  Just most don't try (aka, put forth the advertising and put enough games on the shelf).

And I'm not desputing Nintendo is losing 'core' gamers.  And geez, I'm repeating myself way too much in this thread.  As I said before, perhaps for those people who want better graphics (or even for those who want certain games), the next Nintendo console can do something for them.  This whole generation is pretty messed up but as it stands, Nintendo came back from basically nothing can took the market back.  Its the Third Parties who need to put forth the effort to make a profit on the Wii.  This notion that its Nintendos fault and they're losing fans because of a lack of games is pretty sad I think.  They have more games on the Wii then the GC and next year they'll have a line up to rival (or surpass) the N64.  Its the Third Parties who dropped the ball yet again on a Nintendo console and yet again Nintendo is getting blamed for it.

Nintendo is actually losing the most important part of their fanbase, the core gamers. They are moving elsewhere and most have no interest in returning to the Wii, when the other consoles offer a lot more and a lot better. They are gaining new customers, that's true, but they are the ones that bought the Wii like an impulse buy and barely end up buying games other than the usual Wii___ stuff or a music game. That's why we don't see core games succeed on the Wii. There's simply too much coming out for the other consoles and after 3 years of waiting, most of the core gamers got tired and moved on. That's what's going on. I would even say that the core Nintendo fan is in risk of being lost by Nintendo themselves due to the lack of games as well.

And about the 43 million selling games, note that most of what you can call "core" in that list was released in the first years of the Wii, when people actually cared for the core experiences on it. There has been no big success this year outside of music games and fitness games, or MHTri, which is only big in Japan. And not all of the games in there are quality games, far from it.

I would dispute pretty much all of that. Core games have succeeded, the amount of core gamers lost is highly disputable (especially the loyalty of the gamers lost). Who is "most" of the "core" gamers? How do we know that the Wii Fit crowd isn't buying software? where are your statistics?

Please, enlighten me.

Not really true. I've already made a comparison between GC and Wii and GC is still ahead in the same timeframe.

Besides, why should 3rd parties go back to Nintendo? Nintendo should go back to third parties, not the other way around. It's them who need 3rd party game on their systems to remain relevant. And it's already too late in the gen to manage that. 3rd party devs already have their engines ready and running on the HD consoles and they are seeing great sales there. Why would they want to focus on the Wii when there's already a huge market (bigger than the Wii) that is eagerly awaiting for their games?