Last week me & shams finally got together on Skype (time differences are rough!) and had a long overdue conversation about gaming and a lot of stuff (but mostly gaming).

Just a couple of gameplayers running off at the mouth. If you're interested, take a gander, why don'cha?

The October 12th date was an offline, BTW. The conversation happened on the 16th. A few lines were left out by request of Shams but they don't affect the conversation much.

John Lucas

 

 

[10/12/2007 8:34:22 PM] Shams says: Hey John - you up? Ready to chat sometime?

[7:50:18 AM] John Lucas says: wow there he is!

[7:50:21 AM] John Lucas says: that was quick

[7:50:35 AM] Shams says: Hey John!

[7:50:55 AM] John Lucas says: so what time is it over there in Aussie land?

[7:51:00 AM] John Lucas says: it's 7:50AM here

[7:51:24 AM] Shams says: About 9:45pm - just got home from partners mums place, to find PC has a virus :P

[7:51:35 AM] John Lucas says: damn. i feel your pain

[7:51:44 AM] John Lucas says: i got a 120 GB drive totally infected

[7:51:46 AM] Shams says: I

[7:51:54 AM] Shams says: I'll start an update and scan now...

[7:52:00 AM] Shams says: Yeah, sucks arse hey :)

[7:52:06 AM] John Lucas says: yeah it does

[7:52:18 AM] John Lucas says: i just got off work. usually gethome at 7AM

[7:52:25 AM] John Lucas says: i work night shift

[7:52:29 AM] Shams says: so you a night dweller hey

[7:52:34 AM] Shams says: what do you do?

[7:52:39 AM] John Lucas says: so that'll probably make it easier to catch you online

[7:52:41 AM] John Lucas says: rent a cop

[7:52:42 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha

[7:52:47 AM] John Lucas says: :D

[7:52:49 AM] Shams says: really? sweet :)

[7:52:58 AM] Shams says: security...?

[7:53:04 AM] John Lucas says: easy money. slight work. best kind of deal

[7:53:06 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[7:53:24 AM] John Lucas says: im an artist and you know how artist always tend to work those odd jobs while trying to do their own thing

[7:53:37 AM] Shams says: Had a friend here who did it, she loved it - level 4(?) firearms license etc

[7:53:44 AM] Shams says: ahh - nice

[7:53:50 AM] John Lucas says: security gives me the time to do other projects like this popzart thing and some other music and art things i want to do

[7:54:00 AM] Shams says: sounds ideal really

[7:54:02 AM] John Lucas says: no firearms for me thanks. i guard a hotel

[7:54:20 AM] John Lucas says: plus pay is better than jobs where you got to do hard work so its a nobrainer

[7:54:33 AM] John Lucas says: i tried to leave it before and found i should have stayed

[7:54:46 AM] John Lucas says: WiiWare!

[7:54:47 AM] Shams says: no firearms = great

[7:54:51 AM] Shams says: nice ;)

[7:55:01 AM] John Lucas says: wii's got me pumped!

[7:55:16 AM] Shams says: Looking the business model, it looks like a real winner to me - best on the market these days

[7:55:20 AM] John Lucas says: it's such a great system

[7:55:28 AM] John Lucas says: business model. trademark nintendo

[7:55:41 AM] John Lucas says: actually MAKING money rather than wasting it...what a novel idea

[7:56:50 AM] John Lucas says: see this is what i envisioned from nintendo

[7:57:20 AM] John Lucas says: not just the established 3rd party but the NEW 3rd party startups which can make their name straight off the wii

[7:57:32 AM] John Lucas says: i know the game busines is haaaaaaaaaard to make money in

[7:57:48 AM] Shams says: This is gonna change *everything*...

[7:57:59 AM] John Lucas says: some good games never get bought and almost everyone has to have a big sponsor big brother company to fund them

[7:58:26 AM] Shams says: Its funny, but its all going to come back to IDEAS - finally

[7:58:42 AM] Shams says: not about deals, retailer space, distribution deals, etc...

[7:58:44 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo cares about this business because it is the main thing they make money from

[7:58:58 AM] Shams says: yeah, that's right

[7:59:00 AM] John Lucas says: they seek long term money rather than short term and because of this they do things to preserve the industry

[7:59:23 AM] John Lucas says: sony and MS just don't do that because of the definition of their type of business

[7:59:31 AM] Shams says: they want a healthy industry with HEALTHY competition - as it encourages more people to enter the market

[7:59:36 AM] John Lucas says: things are really much more simple than it seems

[7:59:38 AM] John Lucas says: YES

[7:59:45 AM] Shams says: (users and providers)

[7:59:57 AM] John Lucas says: see even if nintendo WAS the monopoly they STILL move things forward because they understand the business

[8:00:08 AM] John Lucas says: the competition just helps them move faster that's all

[8:00:34 AM] Shams says: Thats why I asked the other day - would nintendo WANT sony & MS to fail - I say no

[8:01:01 AM] Shams says: *every* healthy industry has a lot of competition

[8:01:04 AM] John Lucas says: i really think they're set to best toyota as the #1 japanese company before this is all said and done

[8:01:19 AM] John Lucas says: nintendos not about domination for dominations sake

[8:01:35 AM] John Lucas says: that comes about because of their commitment and focus on great ideas

[8:01:43 AM] John Lucas says: the reward is the marketshare not the aim

[8:03:06 AM] Shams says: (sorry on phone to parents, yadda yadda... you going to be up for a while?)

[8:03:18 AM] John Lucas says: yeah

[8:03:20 AM] John Lucas says: ill be here

[8:03:31 AM] John Lucas says: need to get out of my uniform anyway

[8:03:36 AM] Shams says: ok, shouldn't be too long - chat soon :)

[8:03:53 AM] John Lucas says: ok..ill do my daily wii fitness while youre on the phone

[8:04:06 AM] Shams says: :)

[8:15:29 AM] Shams says: Hey John - you there>

[8:15:45 AM] John Lucas says: dang i hadnt even left yet

[8:15:51 AM] John Lucas says: well guess thats a good thing

[8:15:54 AM] Shams says: hehe...

[8:15:56 AM] John Lucas says: i was typing on the forum

[8:16:02 AM] John Lucas says: i get caught up with that often

[8:16:08 AM] Shams says: I'll be here for a while, so if you want to go...

[8:16:16 AM] Shams says: Yeah, I do the same - my girl hates it!

[8:16:23 AM] John Lucas says: basically responding to wiigirl76's onna76's comment

[8:16:30 AM] John Lucas says: your girl looks nice

[8:16:38 AM] John Lucas says: thanks for the picture

[8:16:41 AM] John Lucas says: seems like a sweet girl

[8:16:47 AM] Shams says: oh yeah, thanks :)

[8:17:03 AM] John Lucas says: i broke down famitsu's name origins

[8:17:06 AM] Shams says: planning our wedding for next year... a lot of... effort... going into it

[8:17:13 AM] Shams says: really? what is it?

[8:17:14 AM] John Lucas says: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=8630&start=-0

[8:17:32 AM] Shams says: (loading it now)

[8:17:42 AM] John Lucas says: she said that famitsu can be sony biased which i found ironic seeing that their very name is rooted in Nintendo's famicom

[8:18:09 AM] John Lucas says: if what she said is true i hope that mag's members understand that irony

[8:18:09 AM] Shams says: I was surprised to see Ninty's original name breakdown

[8:18:26 AM] John Lucas says: oh you mean nin- ten- do?

[8:18:42 AM] John Lucas says: i get so many different stories on that...is it luck left to heaven or something else?

[8:18:44 AM] Shams says: I haven't seen any bias that I can think of

[8:18:52 AM] Shams says: yeah, something like that

[8:18:54 AM] John Lucas says: i think that's just onna's pov

[8:19:22 AM] Shams says: I love how everyone is getting "panicky" on the Wii - its hilarious'

[8:19:36 AM] Shams says: Bunch of sheep - with no foresight

[8:19:37 AM] John Lucas says: did you know that ique basically stands for god's gaming machine

[8:19:50 AM] John Lucas says: this divine and nintendo thing seems to go hand in hand

[8:20:02 AM] John Lucas says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQue_Player

[8:20:07 AM] John Lucas says: ique is nintendo

[8:20:13 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo's chinese branding

[8:20:22 AM] Shams says: They love that stuff

[8:20:24 AM] John Lucas says: sheep sheep sheep baaaaaaaaad

[8:20:30 AM] Shams says: hehe

[8:20:42 AM] Shams says: didn't know ique meant that interesting

[8:20:54 AM] John Lucas says: heaven's gaming. god's machine. no wonder nintendo never dies LOL (rofl)

[8:21:28 AM] Shams says: Luck from Heaven... as good as it gets

[8:21:44 AM] John Lucas says: shen you ji the nickname for ique

[8:21:49 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha ironic

[8:22:00 AM] Shams says: Look at the stock price - says it all. Have to be close to #2 outright now...

[8:22:02 AM] John Lucas says: imagine the ads detailing that

[8:22:07 AM] Shams says: :)

[8:22:09 AM] John Lucas says: they posted it. i think they hit #2

[8:22:13 AM] John Lucas says: it was recent

[8:22:21 AM] Shams says: I doubt us "westerners" would get it ;)

[8:22:32 AM] John Lucas says: that's why i see them besting toyota when its all said and done which will be mindblowing for such a comparatively small company

[8:22:39 AM] John Lucas says: hahahahahaha

[8:22:53 AM] John Lucas says: westerners can be so closeminded sometimes

[8:23:14 AM] Shams says: agreed.. just checking the board now...

[8:23:18 AM] John Lucas says: im sure easterners have their closeminded periods but they like crazy ideas more than we do

[8:23:30 AM] Shams says: wow - PS3 sales increased after a price drop - amazing!! (not...)

[8:23:32 AM] John Lucas says: its no wonder gaming went to japan

[8:23:37 AM] John Lucas says: using percentages

[8:23:43 AM] John Lucas says: always the refuge of the desparate

[8:23:45 AM] Shams says: for sure

[8:23:57 AM] John Lucas says: use it with HARD number and then you're saying sometihng

[8:24:16 AM] Shams says: Ironically, the Wii is STILL outselling it...

[8:24:18 AM] John Lucas says: if i go from $1 to $5 i went up 500%

[8:24:21 AM] John Lucas says: wow! but not really

[8:24:28 AM] Shams says: yeah, that's right...

[8:24:35 AM] John Lucas says: see? doesn't even matter. and that the N's weakest region!

[8:24:52 AM] John Lucas says: due to history. once nintnedo tightens up on euroland hang it up

[8:24:53 AM] Shams says: I sold 1 unit... now I sold 10... wow 1000% inprovement!

[8:25:09 AM] Shams says: Ninty just warming up - they will own Xmas, pretty sure of it

[8:25:14 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha percentages are just worked out equations

[8:25:31 AM] John Lucas says: the competition should be thankful they pulled back brawl

[8:25:37 AM] John Lucas says: it woulda been a massacre

[8:26:03 AM] Shams says: Wow - and a story about 40gig selling out in (3 stores) in Perth... wow ;)

[8:26:30 AM] John Lucas says: obviously people either still believe in sony or they;re using these things for things outside of gaming

[8:26:36 AM] John Lucas says: the story of the psp i gather

[8:26:51 AM] Shams says: Ninty just didn't need brawl - very smart to delay it, helps them everywhere

[8:27:15 AM] John Lucas says: i dont wanna rain on their parade so i let them celebrate while they can

[8:27:23 AM] John Lucas says: let em feel that nintendos on the teeter totter

[8:27:33 AM] John Lucas says: this is the last year theyll have that feeling

[8:27:52 AM] John Lucas says: the only weak point of the wii. the only one really is region locking

[8:27:54 AM] Shams says: Exactly - this is the LAST hope for Sony, I doubt they realise that

[8:28:07 AM] John Lucas says: its like a cult, a crazy religion

[8:28:32 AM] Shams says: They are peaking too early - within 2 weeks the core of the price drop will be gone - and still 2 months from Xmas... oops!

[8:28:34 AM] John Lucas says: outside of the online region locking there is no significant weakeness to wii

[8:28:42 AM] John Lucas says: sony is DESPARATE

[8:28:57 AM] John Lucas says: all these changes...ive never seen anything like thisbefore

[8:29:05 AM] Shams says: region locking... might be a weakness I suppose? haven't really thought about it

[8:29:12 AM] Shams says: yeah, its insane

[8:29:23 AM] John Lucas says: 40gb 60gb 20gb 80gb

[8:29:25 AM] Shams says: trying every combination - hoping "something" works...

[8:29:31 AM] John Lucas says: it aint the GB, baby

[8:29:33 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha

[8:29:36 AM] Shams says: imagine the cost involved, plus confusion...

[8:29:40 AM] John Lucas says: its the price...and its the games

[8:29:51 AM] John Lucas says: then taking OUT stuff. what is THAT?

[8:30:06 AM] John Lucas says: this is a CON-SOLE not a general purpose COM-PUUU-TER

[8:30:15 AM] Shams says: Its insane - I was all for the PS3, and Sony sticking to their guns - but that' didn't last

[8:30:31 AM] John Lucas says: theyd have done better sticking to their original setup

[8:30:37 AM] John Lucas says: they totally got played by microsoft

[8:30:44 AM] John Lucas says: microsoft got into their head BIG time

[8:31:02 AM] John Lucas says: followed them right off the cliff except ms had a parachute

[8:31:18 AM] Shams says: I still think they needed to set a higher original price, and actually make money on the hardware - then who cares if sales are low? and it takes 2 years to establish? guess the bad media got to them as well

[8:31:24 AM] Shams says: agreed

[8:31:38 AM] John Lucas says: management is bad there. theyll never get it together

[8:31:44 AM] Shams says: If MS didn't have RRoD, it might be all over by now - only thing holding them back

[8:31:54 AM] John Lucas says: the only reason its selling now is because of the past 12 years of ps momentum

[8:31:58 AM] John Lucas says: really. youre right

[8:32:34 AM] John Lucas says: i dont know why sony thought they could get into a money fight with ms, aka the daddy warbucks company

[8:33:01 AM] Shams says: thats right - Sony are slowly choking their brand name, something that may cost them billions in the future

[8:33:24 AM] Shams says: no one has ever won a money battle with MS have they? its just a field of carcasses...

[8:33:32 AM] John Lucas says: built-in BC is one of the sony innovations and theyre flying right in the face of that. uncanny

[8:33:41 AM] John Lucas says: nope. hahahaha. not a one

[8:33:49 AM] John Lucas says: walmart probably can hang but thats about it

[8:34:19 AM] Shams says: yeah, but at least walmart are in a different space - if MS ever want to get into retail properly - look out

[8:34:24 AM] John Lucas says: mark my words: this is sony's last hurrah in the gaming business. there will not be a ps4

[8:34:29 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[8:34:33 AM] Shams says: hang on, got to put my (crazy) cat out

[8:34:40 AM] John Lucas says: scei will fold within this generation

[8:34:43 AM] John Lucas says: ok

[8:35:23 AM] Shams says: yeah... maybe. I'm not convinced, but its possible

[8:35:37 AM] Shams says: they will struggle to make any money off the PS3 - ever

[8:35:40 AM] John Lucas says: its not because they WANNA leave but more because they HAVE to leave

[8:35:48 AM] John Lucas says: R&D is EX-PENNN-Sive

[8:36:06 AM] John Lucas says: after losing so much here i dont think the investors will stand for it

[8:36:26 AM] John Lucas says: momentum based industry and sony does not know how to be an underdog like nintendo

[8:36:26 AM] Shams says: LOL... just saw this on the board!

"its true that the PS3 is outselling the Wii" Its a quote from shams :)

[8:36:37 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha where

[8:36:49 AM] Shams says: (GranTurismo sig) - nice of him to truncate my text! ;)

[8:37:01 AM] John Lucas says: granturismo is so funny

[8:37:07 AM] John Lucas says: i get a kick out of sony fans

[8:37:14 AM] John Lucas says: i wish they wouldnt ban so many of em

[8:37:20 AM] Shams says: Nah, Sony has no idea - its purely focusing on "high-gfx" games - they won't sell, and cost a shitlkoad to make

[8:37:25 AM] John Lucas says: i love their suspended disbelief of events

[8:37:40 AM] John Lucas says: so simple to understand but so many cant see it

[8:37:48 AM] Shams says: its a pity that so few of them are able to rationally discuss anything :P

[8:38:00 AM] John Lucas says: they must have got suckered into the hype that the game business is as big as the movie business

[8:38:03 AM] John Lucas says: its not by far

[8:38:10 AM] Shams says: I love em too - so much fun

[8:38:20 AM] John Lucas says: its a very fragile industry that can implode at anytime with a series of bad directions

[8:38:36 AM] Shams says: movie industry is all "rinse & repeat"

[8:38:51 AM] John Lucas says: and they can make clunker after clunker and still stay in business

[8:38:53 AM] Shams says: games industry is not - thanks to hardware & install bases

[8:38:59 AM] John Lucas says: plus its easier to make movies than games anyhow

[8:39:22 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[8:39:54 AM] John Lucas says: they see halo outselling spiderman 3 and think they have arrived when they forget that spiderman made that money at $7 to $10 a piece

[8:40:06 AM] Shams says: hell yeah - much, much easier - basically no tech involved - take a brand, put through a process, market it - and no risk

[8:40:09 AM] John Lucas says: with halo making that with $60 $70 $130 a piece

[8:40:42 AM] John Lucas says: the process of filmmaking is easier. programming is a bitch! i can tell. all that coding and stuff

[8:40:51 AM] John Lucas says: just to make sure things work right and look right

[8:41:02 AM] John Lucas says: in movies all you have to do is tell the actors to act and its all there

[8:41:05 AM] John Lucas says: all you have to do is edit

[8:41:13 AM] John Lucas says: you have to all that in games plus some more

[8:41:53 AM] Shams says: no "bugs" in movies - none of it is "realtime" - it can all be faked, fixed experiences

[8:42:04 AM] Shams says: no comparison in the end

[8:42:04 AM] John Lucas says: thats right

[8:42:21 AM] John Lucas says: lots of shortcuts. the closest it comes is when they use special fx

[8:42:31 AM] John Lucas says: and even then its for select scenes

[8:42:31 AM] Shams says: they should stick to movies ;) - guess they are trying to make games, the same way they make movies

[8:42:39 AM] Shams says: yup

[8:42:42 AM] John Lucas says: sony is a vertical company

[8:42:46 AM] John Lucas says: i wrote it somewhere

[8:42:49 AM] John Lucas says: let me dig it up

[8:42:52 AM] John Lucas says: hold on

[8:42:54 AM] Shams says: itss very true

[8:42:56 AM] Shams says: go for it...

[8:44:38 AM] John Lucas says: found it

[8:44:50 AM] John Lucas says: a post i made in the thread "will there be a ps4"

[8:44:53 AM] John Lucas says: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=8106

[8:45:08 AM] John Lucas says: i wish they had post by post id on here so you wouldnt have to scroll

[8:45:11 AM] Shams says: hang on, have to correct people on something ;)

[8:45:18 AM] John Lucas says: ok

[8:46:30 AM] John Lucas says: it's on 2nd page and its a reply to el duderino

[8:47:08 AM] John Lucas says: here's the key line: "Sony doesn't have this advantage. Sony is at heart a general electronics designer. They make a standard system to play specific works. Later on they evolved and branched their business to produce the works (movies, music, TV) to put on the players but the former is still the company's heart."

[8:48:21 AM] Shams says: In a lot of ways, I think the worst thing for Sony would be that the PS3 does "sort of" ok (but never makes money).

[8:48:36 AM] John Lucas says: really?

[8:49:00 AM] Shams says: If it does REAL badly - they could dump it now, redesign it for a proper PS2 2.5 (no BluRay, etc..) - and get it on the market to compete with the Wii at a decent price

[8:49:07 AM] John Lucas says: makes sense

[8:49:08 AM] Shams says: cut their losses and run

[8:49:23 AM] John Lucas says: sort of like the so close ye so far scenario if they do ok but never profit. i get it

[8:49:28 AM] Shams says: But this is Sony - they wouldn't have the BALLS to do that - admit failure

[8:49:42 AM] John Lucas says: even cutting losses might be bad for them but that would be worse

[8:50:00 AM] John Lucas says: when kutaragi went so did SCEI and the playstation brand

[8:50:10 AM] John Lucas says: im telling you this is sony's last days in the gaming business

[8:50:24 AM] John Lucas says: there won't be a psp2 because of the fallout caused from the ps3

[8:50:48 AM] Shams says: you may well be right

[8:50:49 AM] John Lucas says: all this i saw when i made my still controversial MGS4 prediction

[8:51:06 AM] John Lucas says: psp is theyre best bet right now. they cant hang on ps2 forever

[8:51:18 AM] John Lucas says: their not theyre

[8:51:36 AM] Shams says: I do know that their existing strategy went out the window - focus on "ultimate tech will win"

[8:51:49 AM] Shams says: Nintendo destroyed that with Blue Ocean strategy

[8:52:04 AM] John Lucas says: kutaragis the whole reason sony got into gaming in the first place. i guarantee you there are still people in sony who look at gaming as a lowly business endeavor

[8:52:28 AM] John Lucas says: only him and a few higherup supporters allowed sony to enter videogaming

[8:52:36 AM] John Lucas says: only because it makes money is it tolerated

[8:52:46 AM] John Lucas says: but gaming is a costly business with shaky returns

[8:52:51 AM] Shams says: like any corporation mate

[8:52:55 AM] John Lucas says: look at how ps1 and ps2 profitted

[8:53:04 AM] Shams says: especially a corp with fingers in everything

[8:53:16 AM] John Lucas says: yeah but especially one like this. food business more profitable

[8:53:24 AM] Shams says: tech made sense for PS1/PS2 - it was HARD to do then

[8:53:35 AM] John Lucas says: thats their strength and simultaneously their weakness

[8:53:56 AM] Shams says: Now any company can create a portable video player (for example) - its no longer something "special"

[8:54:06 AM] John Lucas says: they dont have laserfocus. they dont have the piercing needle but rather the blunt log

[8:54:11 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[8:54:25 AM] Shams says: Now - its ideas that are special - DS & Wii are both "special" (wont be in 5 years)

[8:54:52 AM] John Lucas says: the bed of nails scenario. when youre broad the nails can never penetrate you but if youre narrow theyll cut right thru you. physics

[8:55:05 AM] John Lucas says: and thats when nintendo will specialize again

[8:55:31 AM] Shams says: or the big tanker vrs small powerboat - powerboat is able to change direction and adapt quickly

[8:55:37 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[8:55:47 AM] Shams says: big tanker has more momentum, but can't change direction quickly

[8:55:53 AM] John Lucas says: cant be all things at once. there is no perfection in the universe

[8:55:54 AM] Shams says: (like any big corp really)

[8:55:57 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[8:55:59 AM] Shams says: exactly

[8:56:05 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo only has 3000 employees worldwide!

[8:56:11 AM] John Lucas says: i still findthis hard to believe

[8:56:37 AM] John Lucas says: pound for pound theyre probably one of the most profit to person rich companies inthe world

[8:56:39 AM] Shams says: its amazing - smart use of outsourcing as well

[8:56:45 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[8:56:54 AM] Shams says: SCE love "buying and bringing inhouse" - dumb

[8:56:58 AM] John Lucas says: sony roots everything in tech

[8:57:01 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha

[8:57:05 AM] Shams says: yeah, exactly

[8:57:12 AM] John Lucas says: this is the soul of their business. that is their identity

[8:57:18 AM] John Lucas says: every busines has an identity

[8:57:27 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo has always been gaming even when it was playing cards

[8:57:48 AM] John Lucas says: so nintendo always focused on the experience of making a better more enthralling game

[8:57:54 AM] John Lucas says: how to make these cards sell better

[8:58:04 AM] Shams says: Nice quote on the board from a Sony fan(boy):

"Nice to see that the PSP could sell more an entire month ... well , this is a nice memory that will live on in all PSP fans hearts :P"

[8:58:05 AM] John Lucas says: what can make these cards entice the populace

[8:58:22 AM] John Lucas says: yep. i say let em enjoy it. i dont like to rain on peoples parade

[8:58:32 AM] Shams says: straight to the point - Sony = tech, Ninty = fun

[8:58:43 AM] John Lucas says: neos and soriku will not relent LOL but im like let them havetheir moment in the sun

[8:58:46 AM] John Lucas says: exactly

[8:58:51 AM] John Lucas says: every company

[8:59:01 AM] John Lucas says: atari is videogaming

[8:59:22 AM] John Lucas says: coleco was leather which branched off into general leather products

[8:59:31 AM] John Lucas says: which included shoes which included childrens shoes

[8:59:35 AM] Shams says: fun can be applicable to anything - cards, video games, TV shows, etc...

[8:59:48 AM] Shams says: tech for video games will become irrelevant soon, and Sony will be in trouble

[9:00:10 AM] John Lucas says: which then compelled them to work in childrens products which moved them to swimming pools and much later toys and as an extension videogames like the colecovision

[9:00:15 AM] John Lucas says: yep

(space limits, continued)

woa very nice, very much alike with our conversations ;)

(conversation continued)

 

[9:00:39 AM] John Lucas says: i saw gran turismo (the game not the poster) in best buy saturday and it looked nice

[9:01:03 AM] John Lucas says: but the system just seemed so lonely. the wii didnt have that level of graphical output but it looked more inviting

[9:01:15 AM] John Lucas says: sony was played on a sony hd tv btw

[9:01:16 AM] Shams says: Sony will do well with "Gran Turismo" - as its a "fun-less" game

[9:01:25 AM] John Lucas says: yep. realistic sim

[9:01:38 AM] Shams says: Never liked it really, bored the hell out of me - same game every time

[9:01:43 AM] John Lucas says: people wanna create their own "second lives" hahaha wonder what linden labs has to say about that

[9:01:53 AM] John Lucas says: second reality. this is what some people push for

[9:02:03 AM] John Lucas says: uh first reality will always beat second reality

[9:02:23 AM] John Lucas says: games are to escape reality not to match it

[9:02:24 AM] Shams says: Sony might as well have ONE app - HOME...

[9:02:34 AM] John Lucas says: they better hope thisworks

[9:02:40 AM] John Lucas says: i hope it does something for them

[9:02:48 AM] John Lucas says: a second life for free

[9:02:58 AM] John Lucas says: but it looks so markety to me though

[9:03:09 AM] John Lucas says: i hope they make it organic and more easygoing

[9:03:38 AM] John Lucas says: it just reeks of telemarket mail ad spam

[9:03:49 AM] Shams says: distribution and ease of use is important - so its more accessible than SecondLife

[9:04:00 AM] Shams says: agreed - but Sony love that shit

[9:04:05 AM] John Lucas says: ill see how it does

[9:04:07 AM] Shams says: its their own TV network

[9:04:27 AM] Shams says: I just know its not for me - but my girl might like it

[9:04:29 AM] John Lucas says: its that very thing that compelled ms to offset them when they joined the biz

[9:04:45 AM] John Lucas says: sonydoes have that. tv and movie and all kinds of things in their vertical setup

[9:04:50 AM] John Lucas says: it could be an advantage

[9:05:03 AM] John Lucas says: at the heart and soul its always the tech at the root

[9:05:35 AM] Shams says: PS3 works as a device to promote their media - nothing else

[9:05:44 AM] John Lucas says: they have american idol and pop idol to build music stars to move cds and cd players and digidistribute

[9:06:00 AM] John Lucas says: they have sony owned tv shows to move sony tvs

[9:06:05 AM] Shams says: that is why a cheaper, cutdown version (PS4?) woulkd be great - mass market price - just forget games

[9:06:19 AM] John Lucas says: that could be a direction for them

[9:06:30 AM] Shams says: its Apple's direction right?

[9:06:34 AM] John Lucas says: they possibly can exit gaming and finally just combine all devices into a convergence box

[9:06:39 AM] Shams says: Apple beat them to it?

[9:06:42 AM] John Lucas says: is it? i think so

[9:06:49 AM] John Lucas says: yeah whoops

[9:06:57 AM] Shams says: Except Apple have *no* media - ironic!

[9:07:08 AM] John Lucas says: thats the sony vertical advantage

[9:07:20 AM] John Lucas says: a sony tv station freefrom broadcast and cable

[9:07:21 AM] Shams says: pincer movement - Apple, MS & Ninty...

[9:07:44 AM] John Lucas says: at the same time this narrows them as it makes their division redundant

[9:07:55 AM] Shams says: Problem is this though: because they own the media, and NEED to promote it - they can't afford to NOT let it on competiting devices

[9:08:07 AM] John Lucas says: why buy a separate music player when i can buy one all in one at home

[9:08:11 AM] John Lucas says: and that will never work

[9:08:18 AM] Shams says: stick to their own devices only - they kill their media division as well

[9:08:19 AM] John Lucas says: you cant control the flow

[9:08:23 AM] Shams says: yup

[9:08:26 AM] John Lucas says: this is exactly why every media they got fails

[9:08:32 AM] John Lucas says: they try to control the flow

[9:08:39 AM] John Lucas says: their strength became their weakness

[9:08:57 AM] John Lucas says: you want them to buy a SONY disc for a SONY player to play SONY music and people will not cop to that.

[9:08:58 AM] Shams says: exactly - you can't control the entire chain

[9:09:09 AM] John Lucas says: with all these pirates today youre lucky anybody buys anything now

[9:09:14 AM] Shams says: exactly what is happening - and why vertical doesn't work

[9:09:24 AM] John Lucas says: people just say i can download everything and screw all you bitches

[9:09:39 AM] John Lucas says: and you wonder why sony wont learn this after so many decades of this strategy failing

[9:09:53 AM] John Lucas says: they made cd burners and are surprised that people bootleg content

[9:09:55 AM] John Lucas says: hahahahaha

[9:10:13 AM] John Lucas says: i buy a sony cd burner with sony cds and im downloading sony content for FREE! LOLOL

[9:10:19 AM] Shams says: iPod works - because its brand independant

[9:10:30 AM] John Lucas says: let the content flow. you just control the player

[9:10:32 AM] Shams says: *all* music just works

[9:10:34 AM] John Lucas says: ms knows this too

[9:10:42 AM] Shams says: Also why DRM sucks arse - and people hate it

[9:10:46 AM] John Lucas says: the content is the water, the player is the container

[9:10:56 AM] Shams says: Windows is popular - everything runs on it

[9:11:01 AM] John Lucas says: and another why sony will fail. the internet has chaned everything

[9:11:08 AM] John Lucas says: nothing beats free

[9:11:23 AM] John Lucas says: riaa is going down slowly but surely and a new business model has to take place

[9:11:33 AM] John Lucas says: people pay out of respect

[9:11:41 AM] John Lucas says: for artist now.

[9:11:53 AM] Shams says: reasonable price point as well

[9:11:56 AM] John Lucas says: the host company is irrelevant

[9:12:01 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[9:12:17 AM] John Lucas says: it aint 1982 when people aint had no control over recording content

[9:12:24 AM] John Lucas says: they tried to block recordable cassette players

[9:12:37 AM] Shams says: there has to be separation between player and media

[9:12:48 AM] John Lucas says: only issue was quality of recording back then

[9:12:50 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[9:12:53 AM] Shams says: Sony would be smarter to spin off "Sony pictures" to another name (and they do)

[9:12:57 AM] John Lucas says: sony is both sides of the fence

[9:13:04 AM] John Lucas says: it wont work too vertical

[9:13:12 AM] John Lucas says: and it will topple like piza

[9:13:17 AM] Shams says: Its not compelling enough

[9:13:29 AM] John Lucas says: sony needs to get back to roots

[9:13:32 AM] John Lucas says: just tech

[9:13:34 AM] Shams says: Look at Pokemon - works great for Ninty

[9:13:39 AM] John Lucas says: make players and devices

[9:13:42 AM] Shams says: yup

[9:13:45 AM] John Lucas says: stop controlling content

[9:13:56 AM] John Lucas says: it worked once back when people had no access but it doesnt work now

[9:14:05 AM] John Lucas says: theyre becoming a stale giant

[9:14:11 AM] Shams says: Owning media is ok - but there can be NO relationship between divisions - basically a separate company

[9:14:15 AM] John Lucas says: they will shrink because of this

[9:14:27 AM] John Lucas says: but it will be for the best

[9:14:28 AM] Shams says: Would Sony want to NOT release Spiderman 3 game on 360?

[9:14:41 AM] John Lucas says: they still get the profits right?

[9:14:43 AM] John Lucas says: exactly

[9:14:48 AM] Shams says: there is "perceived" advantage from vertical - its actually the opposite

[9:15:06 AM] John Lucas says: im about to coin a new term: internal conflict of interest?

[9:15:37 AM] Shams says: efficiency in just doing one thing - and doing it well - i.e. Apple are owning "funky" hardware these days (not necessarily best tech, but best design)

[9:15:40 AM] Shams says: nice :)

[9:15:50 AM] John Lucas says: thank you

[9:16:24 AM] John Lucas says: ms works with nintendo on ds letting their 360 properties show up on N's systems

[9:16:27 AM] Shams says: This is why Ninty are different - the hardware is an *extension* of the software - nothing more - and why if they stop making hardware, they will also stop software

[9:16:34 AM] John Lucas says: exactly

[9:16:36 AM] Shams says: Exactly!

[9:16:50 AM] Shams says: Viva on the DS is a masterstroke

[9:16:53 AM] John Lucas says: and while they add a few extra touches its always rooted in gaming

[9:16:56 AM] John Lucas says: it belogns there

[9:17:06 AM] John Lucas says: rare is still a nintendoite. they been with em too long

[9:17:15 AM] Shams says: yup - all based around fun / entertainment

[9:17:16 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo has rubbed off on these guys

[9:17:27 AM] John Lucas says: theyre the quirky british nintendo

[9:17:40 AM] John Lucas says: i think they regret the move to ms now

[9:17:50 AM] John Lucas says: stamper bros left, the others guys left to form free radical

[9:17:58 AM] Shams says: I have the feeling MS would *like* Viva on the Wii as well - also gets them lots of support from Ninty fans

[9:18:09 AM] John Lucas says: nintendos problem was control over 3rds. telling them what to make and all that

[9:18:11 AM] Shams says: But hurts their "casual" 360 message too much

[9:18:16 AM] John Lucas says: viva pinata belongs on wii

[9:18:21 AM] John Lucas says: it would be blockbuster

[9:18:30 AM] John Lucas says: there IS no casual 360! HAHAHA

[9:18:44 AM] John Lucas says: the design and soul of that property wards off a certain audience

[9:18:50 AM] Shams says: What MS should do - openly drop the Arcade SKU, and say 360 is "hardcore only"

[9:18:54 AM] John Lucas says: its a little friendlier than original xbox but not much

[9:19:08 AM] John Lucas says: which is a small base but a loyal one

[9:19:19 AM] Shams says: Its a typical MS evolution of device/platform

[9:19:24 AM] John Lucas says: you know i used to laugh before al systems launched

[9:19:40 AM] John Lucas says: companies never stray far from their DNA do they?

;)

[9:19:49 AM] Shams says: they can't can they?? ;?

[9:19:58 AM] John Lucas says: i used to hear people

[9:20:04 AM] Shams says: cease to become that company really

[9:20:29 AM] John Lucas says: talk about how nintendo won an era then sony won an era and now its only right and logical that it was microsofts turn to win an era

[9:20:50 AM] Shams says: MS should do anything they can to win over Ninty fans... bring ALL their games to the DS ;)

[9:20:58 AM] John Lucas says: totally perception over reality, POV over fact, a common human mistake

[9:21:18 AM] Shams says: too right - people massively oversimplify things

[9:21:19 AM] John Lucas says: wii60 was an omen and its TOO coincidental how NoA and MS HQs are so next door to each other in redmond

[9:21:35 AM] Shams says: they have some form of working relationship

[9:21:39 AM] John Lucas says: got to be

[9:21:47 AM] John Lucas says: sony knows this too which is why theyre panicking

[9:21:50 AM] Shams says: Sony is openly aggressive, and doesn't want to work with ANYONE

[9:22:03 AM] Shams says: piss of MS (pro Linux) & Ninty

[9:22:05 AM] John Lucas says: almost makes you wonder if nintendo didnt set ms up as contender to offset sony

[9:22:17 AM] Shams says: or other way around - or collude

[9:22:30 AM] Shams says: it sort of feels like a collusion to me... :P

[9:22:35 AM] John Lucas says: one way or another theres some kind of cooperation between em

[9:22:49 AM] John Lucas says: ms knows as an outsider they cant take out the old oak tree of this business

[9:23:02 AM] John Lucas says: everybody knows nintnedo IS the gaming industry not just a part of it

[9:23:08 AM] Shams says: I wouldn't trust MS though - if Sony quit, ?Ninty is next target

[9:23:11 AM] John Lucas says: without them this thing goes purely computers

[9:23:21 AM] John Lucas says: but they wont be able to take em. i guarantee

[9:23:26 AM] John Lucas says: look at zune

[9:23:36 AM] John Lucas says: ms doesnt understand videogaming

[9:23:48 AM] John Lucas says: they come at it from a network software perspective

[9:23:55 AM] John Lucas says: gaming IS software but its a special software

[9:24:14 AM] Shams says: MS approach - you can't outspend us, so we will never die - its hard to beat something that never dies

[9:24:17 AM] John Lucas says: every company that got into gaming had a logical progression of degrees of separation

[9:24:28 AM] John Lucas says: oh theyll die itll just take a long time

[9:24:33 AM] John Lucas says: or theyll just get tired and go home

[9:24:37 AM] Shams says: it might take them 100yrs to be competitive...

[9:24:46 AM] John Lucas says: i see he #2 scenario most of all

[9:24:46 AM] Shams says: Yeah - shareholders will get sick of things

[9:24:56 AM] John Lucas says: of course even MS has its limits even though theyre long

[9:25:06 AM] Shams says: Still a REAL chance MS could exit the industry too...

[9:25:10 AM] John Lucas says: and ms' monopoly isnt totally secured either

[9:25:20 AM] John Lucas says: oneday someone will upset their OS monopoly

[9:25:21 AM] Shams says: big public company, blowing money on something non-essential

[9:25:29 AM] Shams says: agreed

[9:25:33 AM] John Lucas says: theyre not serious about this business

[9:25:36 AM] John Lucas says: this is a game to them

[9:25:41 AM] John Lucas says: ironic isnt it. a game

[9:25:51 AM] Shams says: In a way, all these devices are some form of risk - I'm using Wii more and PC less

[9:25:53 AM] John Lucas says: this is a play to diversify and protect their larger interests

[9:26:05 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo knows what a console is

[9:26:20 AM] John Lucas says: ken kutaragi was right ps3 IS a computer

[9:26:22 AM] John Lucas says: and so is wii

[9:26:23 AM] Shams says: as its been said - commonly known that MS entered to block Sony from owning living room

[9:26:25 AM] John Lucas says: and so is snes

[9:26:28 AM] John Lucas says: and so genesis

[9:26:42 AM] John Lucas says: all of them are actually computers but SPECIALIZED computers

[9:26:47 AM] Shams says: Its come down to applications and use - exactly

[9:26:49 AM] John Lucas says: specialized for gaming only purposes

[9:27:05 AM] Shams says: for me to chat to you like this, I can't easily do it sitting 5m from my TV on my couch

[9:27:06 AM] John Lucas says: general comps like the one were typing on have too much processing and running the background

[9:27:24 AM] Shams says: I think its a interface thing - rather than power

[9:27:26 AM] John Lucas says: it doesnt make for the best of gaming experiences especially for complex games

[9:27:40 AM] Shams says: my PC is optimised for chat/internet browing more than anything else

[9:27:42 AM] John Lucas says: yep and interfdace is another part of it too which is why you can define a console by its controller

[9:27:53 AM] John Lucas says: pcs are jack of all trades masters of none

[9:28:02 AM] Shams says: exacly - soon power will be irrelevant

[9:28:11 AM] John Lucas says: they do a little of everything and to get them more specialized you have to spend and customize

[9:28:16 AM] John Lucas says: which is costly

[9:28:28 AM] John Lucas says: sure you can run games on a pc but it takes so much

[9:28:58 AM] Shams says: but I don't play games on my PC anymore - primarily due to interface - and partially due to CPU

[9:29:02 AM] John Lucas says: and pc gaming is wildwest. no solid rules there. every makes their own rules which is a strength of pc gaming and something that always needs to remain. but thats bad for a consoel experience

[9:29:25 AM] Shams says: PC gaming = FPS & RTS - almost only these days

[9:29:30 AM] John Lucas says: ps3 shoulda known not to play that game. future proof my ass. its already outdated

[9:29:36 AM] Shams says: And Will will challenge those

[9:29:38 AM] John Lucas says: and that's why it will always be niche

[9:29:48 AM] Shams says: yup

[9:29:56 AM] John Lucas says: pc gaming used to be more diverse but not anymore

[9:30:07 AM] John Lucas says: it sells to a dedicated base but it never expand

[9:30:08 AM] Shams says: I always find the 360 more appealing, as its more a PC - but also a console - PS3 is less PC

[9:30:18 AM] John Lucas says: the high end side anyway. the flash parlor game is expanding

[9:30:26 AM] Shams says: unnecessarily complex (PS3)

[9:30:33 AM] John Lucas says: the low end pc gaming like text twist and all that kind of jazz is moving forward

[9:31:01 AM] Shams says: studying casual a lot at work these days

[9:31:09 AM] Shams says: interesting

[9:31:14 AM] John Lucas says: and see the danger what people dont understand is that consoles are a mutant hybrid

[9:31:18 AM] Shams says: mobile will be huge - its happening

[9:31:20 AM] John Lucas says: in actuality they shouldnt exist

[9:31:25 AM] John Lucas says: oh yeah another branch

[9:31:36 AM] John Lucas says: thank the microvision game &watch and game boy

[9:31:57 AM] John Lucas says: hold on phone

[9:32:05 AM] Shams says: ok

[9:32:17 AM] John Lucas says: prank call

[9:32:19 AM] John Lucas says: anyhow

[9:32:29 AM] Shams says: really? wtf?

[9:32:40 AM] John Lucas says: no one on phone. silence. happens

[9:32:58 AM] John Lucas says: consoles came about in a time when tech and people werent as married as they are today

[9:33:02 AM] John Lucas says: think back to 1972

[9:33:18 AM] Shams says: get that a lot - a lot of marketing companies use automatic dialing machine things..

[9:33:29 AM] John Lucas says: ralph baer the father of videogaming AKA digital gaming of a Tv screen. Television TeleVIDEO

[9:33:49 AM] John Lucas says: is that whatthat is? i had a feeling.

[9:34:07 AM] John Lucas says: i get spanish telemarketers now! annoying! all the mexican influx

[9:34:16 AM] Shams says: it can be - some of them wait and listen for a voice, then will switch to a person if one happens

[9:34:40 AM] John Lucas says: but back to 1972. think about tech at that time

[9:35:05 AM] Shams says: tech was hard - it was new

[9:35:05 AM] John Lucas says: the most tech stuff we had back then (or rather our people had back then if we were not born yet) was a B&W TV a radio

[9:35:19 AM] Shams says: unique, new experiences

[9:35:23 AM] John Lucas says: regular appliances like toaster fridge

[9:35:34 AM] Shams says: yup

[9:35:37 AM] John Lucas says: but tech surrounding you back then wasnt a reality

[9:35:49 AM] John Lucas says: thats why odyssey came in woodgrain to match the furniture

[9:35:54 AM] John Lucas says: everything was woodgrained

[9:35:57 AM] John Lucas says: hahahahaha

[9:36:01 AM] Shams says: LOL, true :)

[9:36:11 AM] John Lucas says: everything was big giant radio knobs

[9:36:16 AM] John Lucas says: turn dials

[9:36:26 AM] John Lucas says: to make it accessible and more appealing to the touch

[9:36:48 AM] John Lucas says: tech nerds of the era. the phone phreakers and stuff. tech didnt bother them but they were a special type of people

[9:37:02 AM] John Lucas says: most people couldnt deal with a ham radio and all that

[9:37:08 AM] John Lucas says: 8-track

[9:37:18 AM] Shams says: it was all accepted - just what people had, what they were used to

[9:37:20 AM] John Lucas says: big clunky ass tape jammed into a plug to play music

[9:37:27 AM] Shams says: electronics was new

[9:37:32 AM] John Lucas says: its all an extension of the space program too

[9:37:47 AM] Shams says: :)

[9:37:48 AM] John Lucas says: weve been prepped for"da future" since WW2 and even before that

[9:38:04 AM] John Lucas says: in 1850 things were very primitive compared to now techwise

[9:38:18 AM] John Lucas says: in 1900 who knew that planes could fly in th sky

[9:38:22 AM] John Lucas says: a flying machine

[9:38:36 AM] John Lucas says: those flying wierdos with thosre contraptions, those crackpots

[9:38:48 AM] John Lucas says: 10 years later theyre flying planes in wars

[9:38:51 AM] Shams says: Project 10 years in the future - what then? kids born now, by the time they grow to age of 10 - 10yrs past PS3?

[9:39:06 AM] Shams says: tech that is in PS3 will be redundant, cheap

[9:39:08 AM] John Lucas says: 10 years after that someones flying all around the earth in one trip

[9:39:14 AM] John Lucas says: yep redundant

[9:39:23 AM] John Lucas says: tech is a keeping up with jones affair

[9:39:30 AM] John Lucas says: you have to make a mark astick with it

[9:39:40 AM] John Lucas says: wii understands this. good enough is good enough

[9:39:50 AM] John Lucas says: there IS no best tech that will stay best tech

[9:39:53 AM] John Lucas says: it moves too fast

[9:39:58 AM] Shams says: its about price point more to the point

[9:40:12 AM] Shams says: you pick a mass market price - and design something for that price

[9:40:12 AM] John Lucas says: which is another reason why best tech never wins

[9:40:20 AM] Shams says: yup - never

[9:40:29 AM] John Lucas says: its the pyramid of life. more poor than rich. alwyas will be due to thegreed of mankind

[9:40:41 AM] John Lucas says: hd dvd and blu ray both obsolete

[9:40:47 AM] Shams says: agreed

[9:40:51 AM] John Lucas says: something non disc like will render both of them useless

[9:41:03 AM] John Lucas says: itll probably cubelike or card like in form or something

[9:41:11 AM] Shams says: all they are doing is introducing people to high-definition movies

[9:41:16 AM] John Lucas says: it wont be all digi distribute itll be half and half

[9:41:21 AM] John Lucas says: aint that much of a difference

[9:41:23 AM] Shams says: always though that

[9:41:33 AM] John Lucas says: people still like to hold stuff

[9:41:34 AM] Shams says: (thought)

[9:41:49 AM] Shams says: give me a HD movie on DS cart anyday

[9:41:52 AM] John Lucas says: they focus on tech over people. you gotta understand people

[9:41:58 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[9:41:59 AM] Shams says: DS II - with HDMI output?

[9:42:04 AM] John Lucas says: who knows

[9:42:16 AM] John Lucas says: hd has been in japan since 1965 am i correct?

[9:42:24 AM] John Lucas says: its not even a big deal to them over there i dont think

[9:42:39 AM] John Lucas says: and 2009 is only the upgrade from analog signal to digital signal not sd to hd

[9:43:06 AM] Shams says: In some form - I thought closer to '85 - but its no revolution - its just a increased revolution for heavens sake

[9:43:14 AM] John Lucas says: HDDVD & BluRay = DRM

[9:43:26 AM] Shams says: digital has benefits - higher res much, much less so

[9:43:34 AM] Shams says: (tape --> CD)

[9:43:48 AM] John Lucas says: exactly...seeable benefits from that upgrade

[9:44:00 AM] John Lucas says: yet i was still collecting cassettes even up to 2003!

[9:44:04 AM] Shams says: Sony used to do well with high-grade tech

[9:44:11 AM] John Lucas says: you gotta look at the poor folk which i am a part of

[9:44:18 AM] Shams says: tech was hard - they did reliable stuff, made MORE profit from it

[9:44:19 AM] John Lucas says: we are the last the jump on anything

[9:44:23 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[9:44:34 AM] John Lucas says: i think when company founder died that all got fucked up

[9:44:37 AM] John Lucas says: they lost direction

[9:44:39 AM] Shams says: but - as tech becomes easier, you can't do it - Sony outsourced to Japan

[9:44:59 AM] Shams says: the market killed them - their one competitive advantage - tech - had vanished

[9:45:04 AM] John Lucas says: theyve outlived their usefulness

[9:45:09 AM] John Lucas says: evolution of nature

[9:45:22 AM] John Lucas says: in a time when tech was rare like in 1940

[9:45:24 AM] Shams says: I used to buy ALL Sony hardware - but in last 10 years its been all crap - dodgy shit

[9:45:29 AM] John Lucas says: they were the boon!

[9:45:37 AM] Shams says: yup - like an R&D company

[9:45:45 AM] John Lucas says: and quality is most important of all which is another reason why i like nintendo

[9:45:48 AM] John Lucas says: make stuff that lasts

[9:45:53 AM] Shams says: so what do they do? try to make MORE tech - CELL!!

[9:46:04 AM] John Lucas says: stuff used to last a lifetime. they used to be craftsmanship involved

[9:46:16 AM] John Lucas says: cell is a dragonball Zcharacter to me

[9:46:18 AM] Shams says: And once its done - they try to use in something to make them money... and look what happens

[9:46:26 AM] Shams says: LOL - nice quote :)

[9:46:29 AM] John Lucas says: i keep seeing trunks and gohan fighting him when someone says that name

[9:46:44 AM] Shams says: "Power of da CELL!"

[9:46:55 AM] John Lucas says: "you can pump up your little muscles trunks but that doesn't mean anything if you cant hit anyone"

[9:46:56 AM] Shams says: "SPU 8 ENABLED!!"

[9:47:08 AM] John Lucas says: tech tech tech. wheres the love? wheres the soul?

[9:47:38 AM] Shams says: Maybe SONY need to leave the tech race? scary, but maybe its true?

[9:48:00 AM] John Lucas says: theyre gonna have to reinvent themselves thats for sure if they wanna survive

[9:48:15 AM] John Lucas says: in 1927 they were flying planes acorss the world

[9:48:24 AM] John Lucas says: roughly 10 years after that they got jets

[9:48:27 AM] John Lucas says: andthen jets in wars

[9:48:29 AM] Shams says: pure content?

[9:48:49 AM] Shams says: outsourcing the chip factory? maybe its happening?

[9:48:49 AM] John Lucas says: superplanes and then the spruce goose

[9:48:58 AM] John Lucas says: ps3 reminds me of spruce goose

[9:49:25 AM] John Lucas says: or is that spruce moose. im probably getting that confused with that ducktales parody

[9:49:37 AM] Shams says: I loved that analogy on gamesindustry - new SKUs like pilot throwing stuff overboard, to take off the ground :)

[9:49:48 AM] John Lucas says: i dont know what theyre gonna do. sonys at a crossroads

[9:50:01 AM] John Lucas says: the stuff they were doing good at they let others like samsung steal their thunder

[9:50:19 AM] John Lucas says: both wii and 360 in that best buy were on samsung tvs btw

[9:50:49 AM] Shams says: it all depends on competitors - but I see them being pincered

[9:50:53 AM] John Lucas says: i dont think theyll leave tech but theyll reinvent themselves in how they doit. theres gonna be a massive fallout because of the ps3s failure

[9:50:56 AM] Shams says: stick with content

[9:51:08 AM] John Lucas says: layoffs coming big time

[9:51:10 AM] John Lucas says: massive

[9:51:20 AM] Shams says: Look at this one...

[9:51:20 AM] John Lucas says: theyre gonna have to restructure the entire company

[9:51:44 AM] Shams says: Spiderman is a Sony IP... yet its on all consoles for profit reasons - it has to be, can't hurt the brand

[9:51:53 AM] John Lucas says: smart.

[9:51:54 AM] Shams says: Say - they make a R&C MOVIE

[9:51:59 AM] Shams says: And it does well...

[9:52:06 AM] John Lucas says: gets the name out there to new audiences

[9:52:18 AM] Shams says: Do they bring it to all consoles? to boost the IP and help sell the movie?

[9:52:27 AM] John Lucas says: if they were smart

[9:52:32 AM] Shams says: drop the platforms - focus on content

[9:52:33 AM] John Lucas says: but theyre trying to play it like nintendo

[9:52:43 AM] John Lucas says: forgettign that nintendo is set up differently

[9:53:05 AM] John Lucas says: mario doesnt go anywhere but nintendo because of how their company is set up. they can play that game because of the companys DNA

[9:53:08 AM] Shams says: exactly - Ninty confuses them :)

[9:53:20 AM] John Lucas says: plus nintendo makes their stuff culturally resonant

[9:53:23 AM] Shams says: Pokemon has movies - but its VERY secondary

[9:53:27 AM] John Lucas says: marios more known than mickey mouse

[9:53:37 AM] John Lucas says: its all about the character, the mascot

[9:53:42 AM] John Lucas says: they learned this from disney

[9:53:50 AM] Shams says: Mario has NO movies - nor has Zelda, etc... (nothing big anyway)

[9:53:55 AM] John Lucas says: in the 50s when yamauchi got involved with those disney cards

[9:53:59 AM] Shams says: The games, the entertainment matter

[9:54:03 AM] John Lucas says: the game IS the movie

[9:54:13 AM] John Lucas says: they dont have an identity crisis on who they are

[9:54:16 AM] Shams says: And lets remember - Pokemon is a NEW company - its NOT Nintendo (just partially owned)

[9:54:21 AM] John Lucas says: their vision is solid

[9:54:23 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[9:54:33 AM] John Lucas says: the show is only to promote the game

[9:54:36 AM] Shams says: Allows them to spin off mechandise, movies, cartoons

[9:54:39 AM] John Lucas says: not the other way around

[9:54:42 AM] John Lucas says: toys

[9:54:42 AM] Shams says: yup

[9:54:56 AM] John Lucas says: sony has no soul in gaming

[9:55:07 AM] John Lucas says: what character represents fully "sony gaming"

[9:55:12 AM] John Lucas says: that link i showed you

[9:55:17 AM] Shams says: yeah, isn't one...

[9:55:22 AM] John Lucas says: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=8106

[9:55:25 AM] Shams says: A car?

[9:55:28 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha

[9:55:32 AM] John Lucas says: and that can be anybody

[9:55:50 AM] Shams says: R&C? but badly known, no one will know it

[9:55:55 AM] John Lucas says: crahs bandicoot and abe odyssee were pseudomascots but sony has never had a soul

[9:56:11 AM] John Lucas says: even ms has used bungies masterchief to represent who they are

[9:56:20 AM] John Lucas says: pc gaming brought to console. fps fps fps

[9:56:34 AM] John Lucas says: so ms has some semblance of an identity

[9:56:57 AM] John Lucas says: read what i wrote in that link i just sent you. i bring michael jackson into it and all

[9:57:25 AM] Shams says: yeah, that thread - classic :)

[9:58:14 AM] John Lucas says: MJ when we sung for motown sang for a company with an identity

[9:58:21 AM] John Lucas says: there was a "Motown Sound"

[9:58:40 AM] John Lucas says: that drum ruffle that got put into four tops and temptatations song

[9:58:50 AM] Shams says: I guess that is REALLY the #1 issue with the PS3 - you can't release a "platform device" when majority of content won't run on your platform

[9:58:59 AM] John Lucas says: sound of the auto industry mechanization in music form

[9:59:03 AM] Shams says: Wii was always going to win - thanks to VC

[9:59:19 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo's identity in full force

[9:59:30 AM] John Lucas says: VC is the underheralded aspect of wii

[9:59:37 AM] John Lucas says: thats straight money for nintendo

[9:59:41 AM] Shams says: But also Sega + other platforms

[9:59:44 AM] John Lucas says: and its a celebration of history too

[9:59:54 AM] Shams says: And WiiWare - I'll tell you what - PC software

[10:00:00 AM] John Lucas says: thats right...it shows you that even its old rivals. nintendo respects gaming

(more space limits, continued)

(conversation continued!)

[10:00:23 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo is strangely the one whos going to be doing a lot of the converging! isnt that ironic!

[10:01:13 AM] Shams says: I thought of that as well - the Wii does well in our house as the ultimate convergence device - and its all due to the Wiimote

[10:01:28 AM] John Lucas says: think back to nintendo's old system: the Family Computer

[10:01:31 AM] John Lucas says: those two words say it all

[10:01:48 AM] John Lucas says: the wii in every defintion and angle is the second coming for the FAMILY Computer

[10:01:52 AM] Shams says: Too true - the Wii "is" the FC!!

[10:02:05 AM] John Lucas says: its actually the next step in tech attached to life

[10:02:21 AM] John Lucas says: apple brought computers from mainframe info only to a personal touch

[10:02:31 AM] Shams says: BTW - wouldn't it be classic if we posted this chat as a thread on VG - not sure I want to though ;)

[10:02:36 AM] John Lucas says: microsoft stole their thunder and setup your programming

[10:02:40 AM] John Lucas says: hey let's do it

[10:02:46 AM] John Lucas says: i got my chat history enabled

[10:02:55 AM] John Lucas says: and i always save good convos for later reflection

[10:03:12 AM] Shams says: cool :)

[10:03:22 AM] John Lucas says: tech has become more integrated in people's lives over the decades but theres still some gaps

[10:03:37 AM] John Lucas says: wii represents the whole thing that started in the 70s

[10:03:59 AM] John Lucas says: game console computers and arcades are just different fingers of the extension of technological progress

[10:04:18 AM] John Lucas says: from planes to jets to copters and rockets (space)

[10:04:21 AM] John Lucas says: the future

[10:04:27 AM] Shams says: Its the ultimate - for a mass market price, what can we deliver that lets people do as much as possible? = Wii

[10:04:31 AM] John Lucas says: from the flintstones to the jetsons

[10:04:37 AM] Shams says: LOL :)

[10:04:44 AM] John Lucas says: after ww2 we were prepped for the future

[10:04:51 AM] Shams says: Nice! flintstones = Pong

[10:04:55 AM] John Lucas says: all of asudden roswell in 1947

[10:05:01 AM] John Lucas says: sci-fi novels taking off

[10:05:10 AM] John Lucas says: superpowered humans in comic books

[10:05:13 AM] John Lucas says: space travel

[10:05:18 AM] John Lucas says: 1950s space shows

[10:05:20 AM] John Lucas says: flash gordon

[10:05:22 AM] John Lucas says: sputnik

[10:05:32 AM] John Lucas says: kennedy saying man on moon before decades out

[10:05:48 AM] John Lucas says: star trek mirroring the social climate of the 1960s with race relations and all that

[10:05:54 AM] John Lucas says: then 1969 man on moon

[10:06:07 AM] John Lucas says: computers and tech are related to this whole progression

[10:06:13 AM] John Lucas says: and we were prepped for it

[10:06:24 AM] John Lucas says: sony is a byproduct of that progression. they were TECH

[10:06:33 AM] John Lucas says: transistor radios

[10:07:01 AM] John Lucas says: the nerds who settled in silicon valley were prepped by all those future ruminations in the media

[10:07:05 AM] Shams says: Yup - tech is now COMPLETE

[10:07:13 AM] Shams says: Its just all specialising - smaller chips, etc..

[10:07:22 AM] John Lucas says: now tech instead of being an outside part of life is getting mroe and more inside

[10:07:23 AM] Shams says: Higher density memory

[10:08:09 AM] John Lucas says: it went through it growing pains looking distinct in 1980s to pull in people. they didnt WANT it to look homey and fitting in with the furniture. black black black. charcoal grey, silver hard metallic colors

[10:08:20 AM] Shams says: Its everywhere - just like with automobiles: at first cars were introduced into society - took a long time to become integrated. Now - its assumed, and just about improvement, better models

[10:08:24 AM] John Lucas says: to look futuristic it couldnt be woodgrained

[10:08:30 AM] John Lucas says: that right

[10:08:36 AM] John Lucas says: now we ha e smart cars

[10:08:51 AM] John Lucas says: now tech is being integrated into nature more organically

[10:08:58 AM] Shams says: back to the stages of a market for a product

[10:09:08 AM] John Lucas says: wii represents that by tying into the family dynamic

[10:09:13 AM] Shams says: yup - everywhere - cheap, accessible

[10:09:17 AM] John Lucas says: it melds itself into the family experience

[10:09:33 AM] John Lucas says: which is its name is the way it is. which is why it is small a nd delicate looking

[10:09:36 AM] John Lucas says: feminine even

[10:09:50 AM] Shams says: Its ALL the Wiimote (well mainly). If the Wii has a SIXAXIS, and the PS3 had a Wiimote - what would happen?

[10:09:54 AM] John Lucas says: not to stick out from the background but to meld into surroundings

[10:10:10 AM] John Lucas says: wii would tank like a motherfucker thats what LOL

[10:10:11 AM] Shams says: yup - small, discrete - not loud, brash - not aiming to stick out

[10:10:16 AM] Shams says: :)

[10:10:24 AM] John Lucas says: every now and then catching your attention with a blue light

[10:10:29 AM] John Lucas says: not red like were so used

[10:10:31 AM] John Lucas says: to

[10:10:35 AM] Shams says: Sony might be able to justify price of PS3 with innovation as well

[10:10:41 AM] John Lucas says: red is the color of blood killing danger

[10:10:50 AM] Shams says: Yup, Blue Ocean :)

[10:10:52 AM] John Lucas says: blue is softer its bleach its cleanlinesss its sky

[10:10:57 AM] John Lucas says: see that. its all connected

[10:11:00 AM] John Lucas says: very deep the wii is

[10:11:33 AM] John Lucas says: not weird controls mapped onto a makeshift control device but now iINTEGRATED with natural movement to play

[10:11:37 AM] Shams says: Its funny how many people come to my house - see the Wii. But - they see the Wiimote - not the Wii. They never see the Wii, even though its never hidden away

[10:11:48 AM] John Lucas says: thats right thats right!

[10:12:01 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo was on fire when they came up with ds and wii

[10:12:05 AM] John Lucas says: on fucking fire

[10:12:11 AM] John Lucas says: ingenious as hell man

[10:12:35 AM] Shams says: Iwato is a genius

[10:12:41 AM] Shams says: Iwata ;)

[10:12:56 AM] John Lucas says: the whole company is geniuses, thats why theyre so good

[10:13:07 AM] John Lucas says: theyre taking videogaming to its origins

[10:13:25 AM] John Lucas says: magnavox odyssey, fitting the home with its woodgrain and radio knobs

[10:13:33 AM] John Lucas says: not to intimidate but to ingratiate

[10:13:44 AM] Shams says: no BS corporate heirarchy - small, tight - everyone involved, and part of the design. creative

[10:13:47 AM] John Lucas says: games forall the family to play

[10:13:58 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo worked with odyssey in 1975

[10:14:11 AM] John Lucas says: they were the japanese distributers of odyssey

[10:14:13 AM] Shams says: really?

[10:14:17 AM] Shams says: cool

[10:14:18 AM] John Lucas says: this is when nintendo ha transitioned to toys

[10:14:19 AM] John Lucas says: yes

[10:14:23 AM] John Lucas says: its in wikipede

[10:14:36 AM] John Lucas says: they learned the game from the founder of the whole industry

[10:14:49 AM] Shams says: ahh, brilliant

[10:14:56 AM] John Lucas says: they then made their own pong clones ,their first systems the color tv games of 1977

[10:15:21 AM] John Lucas says: after playing with odyssey they saw the opportunity of videogaming and took this new TOY into the core of their company vision

[10:15:31 AM] John Lucas says: it was all yamauchi trying to spread out from just playing cards

[10:15:37 AM] Shams says: Ninty have *so* many cards up their sleeves with the Wii as well - they haven't even tapped ONE of them

[10:15:40 AM] John Lucas says: love hotels didnt work noodles didnt work

[10:16:12 AM] John Lucas says: he got gumpei yokoi off an assembly line and then transitioned into ANOTHEr area of fun another are of play, toys

[10:16:14 AM] Shams says: price cut, bundles, new regions, colours, new Wiimote, new Wiimote colour, bundle Wiipoints, etc...

[10:16:31 AM] John Lucas says: and videogames are an extension of toys. and that's how nintendo became this kind of company

[10:16:36 AM] Shams says: fascinating history

[10:16:47 AM] John Lucas says: they were the 1st japanese consolers from 1977

[10:16:54 AM] John Lucas says: they brough consoles to japan hometown

[10:17:05 AM] Shams says: tech is so secondary - not essential

[10:17:15 AM] John Lucas says: then game & watch in 1980 put handheld gaming on map save for microvision of a little earlier

[10:17:43 AM] John Lucas says: they brought it to japan first though. and then from there looking at the g&w took that design and made the famicom controller

[10:17:51 AM] John Lucas says: and the FAMILY computer in 1983

[10:17:56 AM] John Lucas says: chaning the whole industry

[10:18:07 AM] John Lucas says: once successful there they said now its time for the BIG money USA

[10:18:24 AM] Shams says: G&W were brilliant - people still know them these days

[10:18:25 AM] John Lucas says: and then after a crash when gaming died they ressurrected it in their onw image

[10:18:30 AM] John Lucas says: very brillaint

[10:18:39 AM] John Lucas says: gumpei's philosophy is what nintendo went back t

[10:18:41 AM] John Lucas says: to

[10:18:43 AM] John Lucas says: their roots

[10:18:50 AM] John Lucas says: videogaming roots as a whole

[10:19:06 AM] John Lucas says: not topline but justgood enough. keep it cheap keep it mass market because that is the biggest market

[10:19:30 AM] John Lucas says: consoles will die without nintendo. it will all go to pc if not for thme

[10:20:01 AM] John Lucas says: game consoles are specialized gaming computers focused only on gaming purposes. and they almost went out of style in the 80s when personal computers got stronger

[10:20:16 AM] Shams says: In a way, Nintendo is till separate from the rest of the industry - people usually don't even count them when doing comparisons

[10:20:17 AM] John Lucas says: remember atari st? and commodore 64? and amiga? and all that?

[10:20:41 AM] Shams says: yup - all PCs really

[10:20:46 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo is beyond their comprehension

[10:20:54 AM] John Lucas says: if not for nes we would be playing pcs

[10:21:04 AM] John Lucas says: and gaming would be niche and would not have gotten this big

[10:21:10 AM] John Lucas says: probably no cellphone gaming either

[10:21:22 AM] John Lucas says: game boy and g&w made portable gaming attractive

[10:21:28 AM] Shams says: yeah, maybe - no casual gaming?

[10:21:29 AM] John Lucas says: and someone said hey lets put this in our phones

[10:21:35 AM] John Lucas says: all of it woulda been dead

[10:21:41 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo came just in time

[10:21:57 AM] Shams says: I still think mobile gaming has come from the "PC" aspect - which is why it still sort of sucks ;)

[10:22:01 AM] John Lucas says: and if they fail it all goes back where it was always destined to go. to pcs

[10:22:08 AM] John Lucas says: partially

[10:22:12 AM] John Lucas says: a bit of both really

[10:22:24 AM] John Lucas says: cause cell phones aint really good for gaming

[10:22:38 AM] Shams says: Nintendo COULD make the DS II a phone (or phone capable) if they wanted - can you imagine a phone that plays DS games?

[10:22:43 AM] John Lucas says: you can play othello reversi whatever poker but its not conducive for very complex games

[10:22:56 AM] John Lucas says: hmmmm i wonder if theyre not already planning that

[10:23:05 AM] John Lucas says: consoles are almost as big as handhelds now

[10:23:17 AM] John Lucas says: handhelds are now basically in some regions THE console

[10:23:27 AM] Shams says: how is that for a market? How many Ninty fans around the world would dump their phone, and pick up a DS phone?

[10:23:35 AM] John Lucas says: homeconsoles are built for a certain home experience

[10:23:45 AM] John Lucas says: if anybody can do it nintendo can

[10:23:59 AM] John Lucas says: look back at malstrom's articles on nintendo's plans for famicom in 80s

[10:24:15 AM] John Lucas says: the stuff were seeing on wii is directly what they tried to do in japan for famicom

[10:24:22 AM] Shams says: yeah, PSP is bordering on non-portable IMO - or at least a specific experience

[10:24:23 AM] John Lucas says: stock market and satellite and all this

[10:24:39 AM] John Lucas says: i think they had an hotline on famicom

[10:24:45 AM] John Lucas says: the iDS

[10:24:47 AM] John Lucas says: hahahaha

[10:24:51 AM] John Lucas says: i-DS

[10:24:58 AM] John Lucas says: apple will be pissed

[10:25:01 AM] Shams says: they had digital distribution in Japan years ago...

[10:25:07 AM] John Lucas says: satellaview

[10:25:09 AM] John Lucas says: yep

[10:25:25 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo is that quirky tech king of japan

[10:25:36 AM] John Lucas says: make old tech new rather than just make new tech

[10:25:37 AM] Shams says: Still think digital distrib on the DS will change everything - and whatever the DS II is, will rock the world

[10:25:42 AM] John Lucas says: sony is the new tech company

[10:25:51 AM] Shams says: yup

[10:25:58 AM] John Lucas says: VC is a test of this already

[10:26:04 AM] John Lucas says: theyre preparing us for it

[10:26:06 AM] Shams says: experience, interface - who cares about the tech?

[10:26:14 AM] John Lucas says: eventually a console will not have much a body

[10:26:23 AM] John Lucas says: things will get smaller and smaller

[10:26:33 AM] Shams says: PS2 << PS3?

[10:26:37 AM] John Lucas says: i think maybe 8th gen is last gen for traditional box console

[10:26:48 AM] John Lucas says: i think by 9th nintendo will be headed toward VR

[10:27:06 AM] John Lucas says: big mistake sony. get smaller not bigger

[10:27:15 AM] Shams says: I don't know if VR as we imagine it is feasible - Wii is pretty close, and getting there

[10:27:16 AM] John Lucas says: unlike in porn the smaller you are tech wise the better

[10:27:22 AM] John Lucas says: get big in density not mass

[10:27:24 AM] Shams says: haha :)

[10:27:43 AM] John Lucas says: ps3 this big fridge

[10:27:49 AM] Shams says: haha :)

[10:27:53 AM] John Lucas says: it looks like one of those posh fridges

[10:27:56 AM] Shams says: PS3 - the fridge - nice one!

[10:27:59 AM] John Lucas says: or a grill as everyone says

[10:28:02 AM] Shams says: PS4 - the house

[10:28:11 AM] John Lucas says: when its standup on end it looks like a fridge

[10:28:14 AM] Shams says: "SimUniverse"

[10:28:23 AM] John Lucas says: thats what they want

[10:28:27 AM] John Lucas says: but will they get it?

[10:28:29 AM] Shams says: Yeah, it does - never liked the shape BTW...

[10:28:39 AM] John Lucas says: looks also lkea grand piano

[10:28:49 AM] John Lucas says: looks expensive as hell just looking at it

[10:28:54 AM] John Lucas says: that does appeal to certain folks

[10:29:02 AM] John Lucas says: i think thats why it does better in europe

[10:29:05 AM] Shams says: Its really smart to disjoint the controller & console as well

[10:29:08 AM] Shams says: (Wii)

[10:29:13 AM] John Lucas says: it was inevitable

[10:29:16 AM] Shams says: They can upgrade them separately

[10:29:25 AM] John Lucas says: who brough wireless to console the N. wavebird

[10:29:25 AM] Shams says: Wiimote II - works with Wii

[10:29:33 AM] John Lucas says: deep

[10:29:33 AM] Shams says: Wii II - Wiimote works on it

[10:29:48 AM] Shams says: DS II --> Wiimote II?

[10:29:55 AM] Shams says: That would be interesting...

[10:29:57 AM] John Lucas says: i think 7th gen will be indefinitely extended

[10:30:05 AM] John Lucas says: cant even fathom

[10:30:10 AM] John Lucas says: its gonna get weird in 8th gen

[10:30:27 AM] John Lucas says: wii is gonna be so beloved. its gonna pass nes is lovability

[10:30:52 AM] John Lucas says: my worry is how can nintendo can transition this audience from the house wii built to their new designs

[10:30:55 AM] Shams says: Wondering if it will turn into something like the iPod - continuous evolution - although it has "generations" as well

[10:31:00 AM] John Lucas says: theyll do it somehow but i just dont know how yet

[10:31:10 AM] Shams says: I wouldn't worry

[10:31:25 AM] John Lucas says: i dont think N will do that with consoles. they do that with handhelds sure but never with consoles

[10:31:31 AM] John Lucas says: addons but never new iterations

[10:31:42 AM] John Lucas says: except after the fact like with NES2 ad SNES2

[10:32:18 AM] John Lucas says: they always say wiis graphics will be outdated.

[10:32:22 AM] Shams says: I don't think its needed for the Wii - although a 1Gig internal mem model would be popular (but transferring data is hard)

[10:32:28 AM] Shams says: Blah - gfx = whatever

[10:32:36 AM] Shams says: Wii = good enough for now :)

[10:32:41 AM] John Lucas says: *I* would say 360's CONTROLS will be outdated more than anytihng

[10:32:48 AM] John Lucas says: they'ere still using that old NES standard

[10:33:01 AM] John Lucas says: we've been playing games the same way for over 25 years!! LOL

[10:33:24 AM] Shams says: I think it is already - but works ok for "hardcore" - that is why hardcore gamers will love 360 - games are forced to be hardcore based on controls

[10:33:34 AM] John Lucas says: controller gripped palms of hands with left and right thumb over controls and action buttons

[10:33:55 AM] Shams says: amazing they haven't done more to it

[10:34:29 AM] John Lucas says: SNES wrinkle with shoulders colorcoding and contours. N64 wrinkle with analog and triggers. Gamecube wrinkle with layout formation and wireless

[10:34:38 AM] Shams says: I don't understand why there isn't a mic in the Wiimote - there is in the DS, and its pretty obvious addition

[10:34:40 AM] John Lucas says: Ms dont know how to change

[10:34:50 AM] Shams says: :)

[10:35:00 AM] John Lucas says: maybe there is. i think thats a secret

[10:35:09 AM] Shams says: maybe holding too close to mouth doesn't make sense - or maybe secret

[10:35:14 AM] John Lucas says: it makes sense after i heard ds had a mic

[10:35:22 AM] John Lucas says: putting the speaker in a controller is just genius

[10:35:29 AM] John Lucas says: those other guys. theyll never keep up

[10:35:35 AM] Shams says: agreed - never saw that one coming

[10:35:37 AM] John Lucas says: nintendo just knows how to make these things

[10:35:52 AM] John Lucas says: i get a kick out of hearing that close up sound on that speakers

[10:36:03 AM] John Lucas says: i never get used to it. it always throws me off but in a good way

[10:36:09 AM] Shams says: I don't know why more things don't use it...

[10:36:19 AM] Shams says: Metroid apparently NEVER uses it!

[10:36:24 AM] John Lucas says: in time they will. its like rumble

[10:36:34 AM] John Lucas says: some dont think about it in the process of gamemaking

[10:36:41 AM] John Lucas says: yeah that woulda been coll wouldnt it

[10:36:53 AM] John Lucas says: use it as built i surround sound

[10:37:00 AM] Shams says: Give Wii 12 months - I think you'll see domination

[10:37:16 AM] John Lucas says: something behidn you and the wiimote speaker shows sounds of the approaching msicreant

[10:37:21 AM] John Lucas says: oh its inevitable

[10:37:35 AM] John Lucas says: its already mighty now when its in prep mode

[10:37:43 AM] John Lucas says: when the 3rd party joins up watch out MS and Sony

[10:37:46 AM] Shams says: hey - its been great chatting, but I had better go - almost 1am here, things to do before sleep :(

[10:37:51 AM] John Lucas says: wow really?

[10:37:54 AM] Shams says: continue another night/day?

[10:37:58 AM] John Lucas says: damn 10:40AM here!

[10:38:00 AM] John Lucas says: yeah!

[10:38:08 AM] John Lucas says: and lets put this up on VGchartz

[10:38:09 AM] Shams says: we started almost 3 hrs ago - not bad!

[10:38:12 AM] John Lucas says: want me to do it?

[10:38:17 AM] John Lucas says: we finally got to talking!

[10:38:44 AM] Shams says: go for it

[10:38:52 AM] John Lucas says: ok i will

[10:39:10 AM] Shams says: sweet - lets see what people make of this one :)

[10:39:12 AM] John Lucas says: great talkng man. get some sleep and ill see you later

[10:39:21 AM] Shams says: will do - have a great day, l8r!

(end!)

okay i got sandwiched between it, but like i said, interesting convo =)

I'll laugh at anyone who attempts to read this.

[7:50:18 AM] -> [10:39:21 AM] : 2 hours, 49 minutes, and 3 seconds.

Why were you two not playing video games?  Hmm?

Words Of Wisdom said: [7:50:18 AM] -> [10:39:21 AM] : 2 hours, 49 minutes, and 3 seconds. Why were you two not playing video games? Hmm?

Gotta live a well rounded life, don'cha know?

Conversation stimulates the mind. 

John Lucas 

MontanaHatchet said: I'll laugh at anyone who attempts to read this.

QFT

lol....i read half the first post and a couple of snippets from the second.

John you talk a lot.