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Forums - Gaming - Eastern countries are EVIL!

Lostplanet22 on 01 November 2009
Kasz216 said:
Lostplanet22 said:
Kasz216 said:

I know of the older people that feel that way too Lostplanet.

The thing is... they're a minority compaired to the younger people that way... and a much bigger minority when it comes to their own generation. They're marginal comapired to the vast number of people afraid of a new Russian takeover.

Hell, i've worked for Chinese people who thought Mao ZeDong was a great guy. Claimed "Nobody ever went hungry."  (In truth... their were sevre famines under Mao ZeDongs reign.)

That is because of he got rid of the class system.

Before him China had still well field systems.

In theory it means you had a field with peasants and one Ruler. Didn't sound like a bad idea because the peasants had the possibility of an sure weekly/monthy income. It ended not that well because the Ruler had all the power and took the majority of the profit. He also could do anything with the peasants he wanted. * Take one of the peasants wives/daughter and marry her even if she didn't wanted. If the ruler didn't liked one he could threw him out or kill him.  If the peasants would start an uproar they will be slaught of the army of the province. In conclusion peasants were nothing more than slaves.

In that time as an peasant you shouldn't hope to live long the average persons didn't got older than 35.

When Mao Zedong got the power he got rid of the system and he made camps who liked as camps for well field systems where all intelligent/educated would be thrown in.  The only ones who could afford those study's were rulers so the peasants didn't saw that as a bad thing. Cause those rulers will now suffer like they did.

Mao zedong saved the lives of hundreds of millions who were known as simply peasants/farmers etc.

It is very hard to see Mao Zedong as an bad guy in the view of the peasants/farmers.

That is why you will find many who like(d) Zedong but that is changing the last years.

I mean their is a reason why Chinese who live not in China like Mao Zedong and see him as an hero.  


A good book how life was an peasant is the book red feast of Lulu Wang. 

The same could be said of Robert Mugabe.  People don't look at him so highly.

 

That is probably because zimbabwe has an population of 10 million? Even if all zimbabwians liked mugabe meeting one would be very seldom.



 

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hunter_alien on 01 November 2009
Kasz216 said:
hunter_alien said:
Kasz216 said:
Samus Aran said:


I've only been to Hungary(of the east european countries) and you don't see anyone hating Americans there.

I think East European countries have more hate for Russia then because it's not like they had a choice or something. They had to join the USSR... Well except Yugoslavia(doesn't exist anymore today) because they were freed by Tito and not by the Russians, but Tito was a communist as well(although he hated Stalin) so it doesn't really matter.

Well mostly.  There are some people like Hunter who are too young to remember how bad things were then and are drawn to the general "glory" that the USSR had as a super power.

It's why countries like the Ukraine and Georgia can't get into the EU soon enough.  They see it as the only way to save themselves from Russia again.

 

You know absolutly nothing about me or my familys life during and after the fall of the Soviet Union, so please dont make snap judgments like that ok? The truth is that yes we did have a great life during the soviet era, but we wherent the only ones. Everybody who managed to fit in had a great one. bealieve it or not many things where far better during that time then what they are today.

 

Yes I might be a bit biased because of my family situation towards russia, but Im certain that no matter what, I would rather be part of a new eastern european economic union then being part of the UE, or its US mimicking rules/habbits/culture. I dont want to be part of that general stupidity and ignorance that consumes the western counties, and Im glad that I was raised as I was.

 

Why do you remember so well how terrible was the USSR KASZ ??? Seriously? Did you live here or all that you have heard was bull**** propaganda? You do know that all the horror stories where only a small part of the entire entity that was the Soviet Union, and most people some way or another actually had a decent and quality life. What was it major fault? That it tried to brainwash people? What country doesnt tries that till this day? Or that it killed innocent people for no reason? Well hello there second gulf war So no, the truth is that its easy to blame the soviet union for every evil act ever made, but people forget that except those few whom actually suffered, there are millions whom actually had a great, eventfull life. I for one would be able to do anything for another similar, and better union, and I do hope that one day it will happen, and the world will see the true face of the eastern european countries

 

For everybody whom is on the Russian/eastern bashing side, please, I dare you to come and spend a couple of weeks/months/years here, in Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine or anywhere else, and I can guarantee that all that you will find is a far more friendlier world, rich culture, where things like happines and freedom may actually be more than a flat and a car, for which youl pay bills for years to come

Yeah, that's why the governments on the borders of russia are all so happy to go back... I'm sure if I came to the Ukraine they'd be real happy about going back to russia.  I mean who isn't a fan of man made famine?

I'll put it this way.  Part of my family is Ukranian by way of Armenia.  Makes me dislike genocidal acts a bit and justifications for such acts.

Also... your like... 19 how would you remember anything from then?  What fond memories when you were like.... 1?

 

Of course... Im not even 20, thank you, but I do have a family you know I think just because of that alone I might be a biot more in touch with the eastern reality then you are

 

Also, wasnt Ukraine the country where 60%  of the voters where anti Nato, and only 20% where pro-nato... I dunno, maybe its just me or the majority of them are more Russian oriented rather then craving for the West.

 

You have absolutly no knowledge of nobodys background, you have no idea whats going on in this world, and all that you have for yourself are a couple of net articles and the fact that somehow you are armenian... dont get me wrong, but I liove here, I travel to Ukraine, Bulgaria, Moldavia and Russia every half year, and I can see whats going on with my own eyes. Dont dislike me if you "truth" is not the same as mine

 

 



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Lostplanet22 on 01 November 2009
Samus Aran said:

Mao still made all peasants work hard, the children were taken away from their homes to be raised by the state because he wanted the peasants to work harder and longer, everyone had to eat in one big place, pretty much everything they produced was meant for export causing millions of peasants to die of starvation, if people stole food their hands got cut off, he took away their personal lives,etc

This was all done before he even started his "cultural revolution"

Please, don't tell me he's a hero of peasants. That's bullshit. I'd be a bigger hero then him if I kicked a Chinese peasant to death for fun. The only reason Mao is still considered a hero in China is because of the Chinese government.

 

Ps: Hunter, those countries aren't ruled by communism anymore, I hate communism, not those countries.

True. And how was it before? If their were more deaths and more cruel stuff happening during Mao Zedong why was then the average age life expectation 70 while it before Mao zedong was 35?



 

Samus Aran on 01 November 2009

Perhaps he barely kept them alive, if you're making a claim like that you also need to post a source though.

I don't know a lot about the Chinese history from before Mao, but Mao did win the civil war because of the help of the peasants.

But I'd rather be dead when I'm 35 then to live 35 more years under the reign of crazy psychopath. It's a shame really, if Mao didn't do all those crazy stuff he would have been remembered as a great writer/poet



Lostplanet22 on 01 November 2009
Samus Aran said:

Perhaps he barely kept them alive, if you're making a claim like that you also need to post a source though.

I don't know a lot about the Chinese history from before Mao, but Mao did win the civil war because of the help of the peasants.

But I'd rather be dead when I'm 35 then to live 35 more years under the reign of crazy psychopath.
It's a shame really, if Mao didn't do all those crazy stuff he would have been remembered as a great writer/poet

Depends on how was life before.

Sources :Wikipedia maybe?

 

They point out that before 1949, for instance, the illiteracy rate in Mainland China was 80%, and life expectancy was a meager 35 years. At his death, illiteracy had declined to less than seven percent, and average life expectancy had increased to more than 70 years (alternative statistics also quote improvements, though not nearly as dramatic). In addition to these increases, the total population of China increased 57% to 700 million, from the constant 400 million mark during the span between the Opium War and the Chinese Civil War



 

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Samus Aran on 01 November 2009

Well you can't compare average life expectancy in times of war with times of peace... =/

I wouldn't trust wikipedia anyway, can be edited by anyone.

forest-spirit on 01 November 2009

Wow, took me some time to read through the whole thread but it was a good read :).

OT:
I think political correctness has something to do with choosing villains. Look at what happened with Resident Evil 5.



amp316 on 01 November 2009
axumblade said:
I blame James Bond.

Bull.  James Bond has nothing to do with it.  The original Bond movies had Bond fight SPECTRE which was a terrorist organisation that employed all of the greatest criminal minds from EVERYWHERE in the world. 

This sort of thing started long before James Bond.  Several American made movies portrayed Germans and the Japanese as evil during and after WWII. 



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Badassbab on 01 November 2009
Kasz216 said:
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
Badassbab said:
Kaz,

I haven't seen any agreement of when the US will leave Iraq, the Iraqis have for years been trying to get them to agree on withdrawal and the Iraqi public have been wanting it since day one. There are agreements on when the the US will withdraw a large proportion of their army but not completely (which is what the majority of the Iraqi and American people want and if democracy mattered it would've happened years ago).

To say the US didn't go in for any other reason other than control of black gold is ignorant. Your reason doesn't hold up to scrunity and no offense but quite laughable.

There is an agreement on when they'll leave US.  They signed the agreement right before the US elections took place.  The troops are all supposed to be out by 2012.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/3461368/British-and-US-troops-to-leave-Iraq-by-2011.html

 

That article doesn't prove your point at all. If anything it's vague and lacks specifics. Not surprising as it's dated 2008 when Bush was still in power. There is no way the US will withdraw completely, they never do unless comprehensively defeated on the political front  by way of mass protests etc (Vietnam) as militarily the're pretty much unstoppable (within reason).

There are actual later articles.  It was just the first one i could find.  There is an agreeement in place though.  If you don't want to believe it because of your own biases i cant help you.

There is no agreement in place that will mean the complete and utter withdrawal of the US military from Iraq. As far as I'm concerned that's a fact if you can prove otherwise I'd like to see it. Nothing bias on my part just stating facts. Has the US withdrawn from Germany? Japan? Korea? Iraq will be NO different.

I don't see how I can prove to you something is going to happen... when I show you the policy that states it's going to happen and you claim thats not the case.  Once again... this time aproved by US Congress.

I mean hell... we have an agreement passed by congress and a ban on establishing permanent bases?  What more do you want... a time machine to the future?

http://www.globalpolicy.org/home/168-general/48378-congress-affirms-iraq-withdrawal-date-of-december-31-2009.html

Also your choices are weird.  Since you are claiming we are going to "Control them for their oil."  Like we're controlling Germany?

Nothing weird about my choices, Germany, Japan and Korea are firmly under the US camp and have been since the end of the second world war. Of course the control lessens over time as the politics of the time dictates.

 

Sorry for sounding skeptical but does that article really mean everyone controlled from the Pentagon inc military advisors and not just combat troops? I haven't really read into the legislation so don't really know what it entails. I always thought it was gradual withdrawal of combat troops with the Pentagon still having a permanent presence of some sort. So I take it can't be altered in any way and nothing can come between it? I just find it hard to believe there will be a permanent complete withdrawal. And what about the embassy? Will they reduce that in size as that's about the size of a small city. Will need combat troops to defend that. And does it include all mercanaries? I guess I'll have to wait until Dec 31, 2011 (what's with the precise date lol).






Kasz216 on 02 November 2009
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
Badassbab said:
Kaz,

I haven't seen any agreement of when the US will leave Iraq, the Iraqis have for years been trying to get them to agree on withdrawal and the Iraqi public have been wanting it since day one. There are agreements on when the the US will withdraw a large proportion of their army but not completely (which is what the majority of the Iraqi and American people want and if democracy mattered it would've happened years ago).

To say the US didn't go in for any other reason other than control of black gold is ignorant. Your reason doesn't hold up to scrunity and no offense but quite laughable.

There is an agreement on when they'll leave US.  They signed the agreement right before the US elections took place.  The troops are all supposed to be out by 2012.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/3461368/British-and-US-troops-to-leave-Iraq-by-2011.html

 

That article doesn't prove your point at all. If anything it's vague and lacks specifics. Not surprising as it's dated 2008 when Bush was still in power. There is no way the US will withdraw completely, they never do unless comprehensively defeated on the political front  by way of mass protests etc (Vietnam) as militarily the're pretty much unstoppable (within reason).

There are actual later articles.  It was just the first one i could find.  There is an agreeement in place though.  If you don't want to believe it because of your own biases i cant help you.

There is no agreement in place that will mean the complete and utter withdrawal of the US military from Iraq. As far as I'm concerned that's a fact if you can prove otherwise I'd like to see it. Nothing bias on my part just stating facts. Has the US withdrawn from Germany? Japan? Korea? Iraq will be NO different.

I don't see how I can prove to you something is going to happen... when I show you the policy that states it's going to happen and you claim thats not the case.  Once again... this time aproved by US Congress.

I mean hell... we have an agreement passed by congress and a ban on establishing permanent bases?  What more do you want... a time machine to the future?

http://www.globalpolicy.org/home/168-general/48378-congress-affirms-iraq-withdrawal-date-of-december-31-2009.html

Also your choices are weird.  Since you are claiming we are going to "Control them for their oil."  Like we're controlling Germany?

Nothing weird about my choices, Germany, Japan and Korea are firmly under the US camp and have been since the end of the second world war. Of course the control lessens over time as the politics of the time dictates.

 

Sorry for sounding skeptical but does that article really mean everyone controlled from the Pentagon inc military advisors and not just combat troops? I haven't really read into the legislation so don't really know what it entails. I always thought it was gradual withdrawal of combat troops with the Pentagon still having a permanent presence of some sort. So I take it can't be altered in any way and nothing can come between it? I just find it hard to believe there will be a permanent complete withdrawal. And what about the embassy? Will they reduce that in size as that's about the size of a small city. Will need combat troops to defend that. And does it include all mercanaries? I guess I'll have to wait until Dec 31, 2011 (what's with the precise date lol).

Embassies are considered soil of the actual country, not soil of the other country.

Everything in the US Embassy would be considered inside the United States.

Other then that.  I can't say.  All I can tell you is that unlike all the states you mentioned there is a ban on permanment military bases.  Which means the US can't run bases in the country like they do in other countries.