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Forums - General - Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?

ManusJustus said:
Khuutra said:

This isn't supposed to be a logical paradox, though, it's supposed to be a stepping-off point for ruminations about the nature of God and his relationship with his creation

If anything, all this argument does is prove that there is no such thing as omnipotence.

Not..... exactly. I don't think the nature of God lends itself to the idea of omnipotence, but omnipotence is possible if one can imagine that it includes the ability to change the rules of logic.



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Khuutra said:
ManusJustus said:

Its a logical paradox, Kasz.  Its impossible.

If an omnipotent god wants to make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift, he cant do it.  Even with their omnipotence they aren't able to do it.  Using your own argument of what God wants, God wants to make a rock he cant lift, but he cant do it.

This isn't supposed to be a logical paradox, though, it's supposed to be a stepping-off point for ruminations about the nature of God and his relationship with his creation

It is supposed to, but forget intention and what it was supposed to be. It still does pose a logical paradox...

The nature of god is supposed to be Omnipotent, benevolent, etc.

The omnipotence paradox is focusing on the logical ramfications of an omnipotent being existing.

The question can be simplified is god able to not become omnipotent? If yes, then he is no longer omnipotent. If no, then he's not omnipotent, because that'll be the one thing he definetly cannot do.



Khuutra said:
ManusJustus said:
Khuutra said:

This isn't supposed to be a logical paradox, though, it's supposed to be a stepping-off point for ruminations about the nature of God and his relationship with his creation

If anything, all this argument does is prove that there is no such thing as omnipotence.

Not..... exactly. I don't think the nature of God lends itself to the idea of omnipotence, but omnipotence is possible if one can imagine that it includes the ability to change the rules of logic.

Then you simply have to change the question to include 'under the current laws of logic' to maintain the paradox I guess.



Akvod said:
Khuutra said:

This isn't supposed to be a logical paradox, though, it's supposed to be a stepping-off point for ruminations about the nature of God and his relationship with his creation

It is supposed to, but forget intention and what it was supposed to be. It still does pose a logical paradox...

The nature of god is supposed to be Omnipotent, benevolent, etc.

The omnipotence paradox is focusing on the logical ramfications of an omnipotent being existing.

The question can be simplified is god able to not become omnipotent? If yes, then he is no longer omnipotent. If no, then he's not omnipotent, because that'll be the one thing he definetly cannot do.

No it isnt.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?id=2758754

I talk about scriptural reasons for dismissing those assumptions in this post earlier in this topic.



Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
@Kasz. He isn't creating a rock he chooses not to lift, he is creating a rock he cannot lift.

If he creates the rock and is able at any point to lift it, then he has not created a rock he cannot lift.

Sure he has. 

I can find a statue I can't life... but if I worked out enough eventually I could lift it.  Or I can make the statue smaller.... whatever.

It's not really a difficult concept.  Omnipotence would mean that you can do anything you want... (or can't if you want) until you change your mind.

Yes but you're not omnipotent.

Omnipotence requires being able to do anything at anytime. Literally all powerful.

 

And I do get your concept, I just think it doesn't fit the definition of the problem. If you want I can change the question slightly - can God create a rock that he will never be able to lift even if he wants to?

Your not asking if god can create a rock he can't lift then however.

You are asking if god can create an object that is immune to his omnipotence.


Still an easy answer.

Yes.  However he would then no longer be ominpotent.

It would take more then just creating a rock though, clearly he would need to invest some of his "omnipotent" power into said rock so it became more powerful then him, and he in turn became weaker.

 

Really "Can god wipe himself from existance" is a more interesting question.  Also depressing.  Imagine a religion like Christanity but the god killed himself.



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If I were omnipotent (I'm not saying I am or I ain't here), you wouldn't see me going around making giant rocks like an idiot. There are a couple cool giant rocks out there though.



The Ghost of RubangB said:
If I were omnipotent (I'm not saying I am or I ain't here), you wouldn't see me going around making giant rocks like an idiot. There are a couple cool giant rocks out there though.

Yeah, I think Uluru was Gods attempt at figuring this paradox out.



Khuutra said:
Akvod said:
Khuutra said:

This isn't supposed to be a logical paradox, though, it's supposed to be a stepping-off point for ruminations about the nature of God and his relationship with his creation

It is supposed to, but forget intention and what it was supposed to be. It still does pose a logical paradox...

The nature of god is supposed to be Omnipotent, benevolent, etc.

The omnipotence paradox is focusing on the logical ramfications of an omnipotent being existing.

The question can be simplified is god able to not become omnipotent? If yes, then he is no longer omnipotent. If no, then he's not omnipotent, because that'll be the one thing he definetly cannot do.

No it isnt.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?id=2758754

I talk about scriptural reasons for dismissing those assumptions in this post earlier in this topic.

I see, I guess I mispoke a bit. However, nobody specificly pointed to the Jewish god at all.

In this paradox we set out in the very beginning that we have a specific omnipotent god (or being). The paradox isn't inteded to disprove god's existence, but the impossibility of an omnipotent god/being.



Akvod said:
Khuutra said:

No it isnt.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?id=2758754

I talk about scriptural reasons for dismissing those assumptions in this post earlier in this topic.

I see, I guess I mispoke a bit. However, nobody specificly pointed to the Jewish god at all.

In this paradox we set out in the very beginning that we have a specific omnipotent god (or being). The paradox isn't inteded to disprove god's existence, but the impossibility of an omnipotent god/being.

Not so: the "paradox" is more useful as a jumping-off point concerning the nature of God. Angrypoolman brings it up specifically in th context of the beliefs of believers and that's the context that it has to be addressed in.

It's very much about the Judeo-Christian God, and the answer is still unequivocally "yes". When you argue hte logic behindi t, you stop arguing about God altogether, and it becomes meaningless.



The Ghost of RubangB said:
If I were omnipotent (I'm not saying I am or I ain't here), you wouldn't see me going around making giant rocks like an idiot. There are a couple cool giant rocks out there though.

Yeah, if i was omipotent i'd probably just spend all day playing videogames and suspending my ominscience to them and the videogame makers.

I'm pretty boring.