Either way I personally think 360 will hold 2nd. But price drop will help. Still bad year for losing money for PS3. It may be a worse loss in total for the PS3's life than the origanal xbox!

The PS3 is going to pass the Xbox unless it becomes more appealing. I think it will pass it by the end of next year too. Here's why (grab some popcorn.)

First PS3/Xbox fans alike, answer this question. If the PS3 had launched this year, and not last, would very much be different (this is for good and bad reasons)?

The PS3 has launched, had a horrible reception because of price, being cocky, etc. Horrible stuff. This year, however, we've seen the horrible ports slowly get better, and some decent first party titles. Overall software and hardware sales have sucked period.

Sales-wise, its almost like this year never really took place. So if the PS3 were to launch this November, it would still have the same dilemma of catching up to the Xbox's 12 million consoles sold. However, is 12 million really that hard to catch?

People spend so much time bashing Sony that they don't realize that at the same point in the Xbox360's lifespan, it had only sold 4,900,000 consoles. What the Xbox is "winning" right now is a battle of nobody's. The Xbox360 has a HUUUGE attach rate, because they have a fan base targeted and they are making games for that group. But seeing as the 360 had about the same sales as the PS3, and historically the second year is always better than the first (especially with the PS3's lineup next year), the PS3 is easily going to have 20 million by next winter.

That brings up the point of install base. Why would you spend the time developing for a difficult system with no install base, and an attach rate that just flat out sucks? Add on to this, the competitor compensates you for exclusives titles very well, all this along with a promise of over 2million sales and praise from sites if you make the right type of game (couch, shooter, cough). It wouldnt make sense. THIS ALL CHANGES NEXT SPRING. MGS4 may not sell as many copies as Halo did (it might come close) but it will move consoles. Even more likely because of rumors that Sony will drop the 40gb into the $299 range. By that time you will also have AAA titles in almost every genre. MGS4, LBP, RC, Uncharted, UT3, Haze, Orange Box(maybe) PES for Europe. Add onto that the coming of rumble worldwide, GT5Prologue, and PS Home. Its very difficult NOT to buy a PS3 at 299, since it plays movies. (I Didnt include Killzone, but that could sell better than all those games if it comes out the way it should.)

You all have heard this before, but I dont think people are looking at why this is really happening. Plain and simple, no one really likes the Xbox. If the Xbox360 was made by Sega, or Toshiba, I really think it would sell alot more. You might think im stupid but think about it. The Xbox has had a library of amazing games for awhile now. Its priced lower, XBL is really fun and gets people to buy more games and play online more. Its all great, so why is it that its not selling well still (its outselling the PS3, but come on lol. The PS3, up until this month, was really on a Sony faithful console. Games sucked, except for a few but they got bad reviews anyways.) Regardless of what excuse you may have, the Xbox was passed by the Wii in less than a year after having a years head start with better games, graphics, and overall value.
The Wii, although its beating ass, at that rate wouldnt sell as much as the PS2. 7 years, at 14 million a year. You can do the math. That doesnt equal 120 million. Add on top of that that the Wii is bring new gamers to the table, by the end of this generation the winner should have about 180,000,000 consoles sold.

The PS3 is in as well a position as all the other consoles right now. It is more about the future than whats happening now, because in all honesty both next-gen consoles are selling piss poor. The PS3 is in a phase with the media right now where they are getting slapped around and hammered on everything from price, to having too many features(lol). But all in all, Sony still has their big guns locked and loaded. They remain exclusives, and a few actually sell better than even Halo.
MSFT has IP's, but as far as exclusive developers, its lacking. On top of that, the install base everywhere but the US is higher for the PS3. This is without a real good library as well.

The Xbox360 is a good gaming console, but in the grand scheme of things, with Halo 3 blown already and developers saying that disc size/pure power of the Xbox is nearly tapped, how is it that without Halo, MSFT can get 100,000,000 game owners to ignore MGS4, FF, GT5, and sony altogether, and hop on with the Xbox?

This generation has barely started. It seems like everyone has gotten amnesia. If the Xbox360 has a little magic left somewhere deep thats bigger than Halo, sure it might win. But you know whats coming from the PS3. Proven, sure shot system sellers. PSSSS (lol).

(I had time to write this while bored at work. I need a real hobby haha. And I DO own a 360 and a PS3. I have Bioshock/Halo 3/Gears of War, but GOW got scratched. Live name:RawCoke86)

We really have to question whether or not the number of people simply waiting for the PS3 to get cheaper before buying one is as great as some here would hope... especially when the consumer now has two perfectly viable options in the Wii and 360 this generation as oppossed to last gen where the Xbox was largely a frat boy novelty and the Game Cube, a no-game joke.

The damage is already done it would seem and Sony's brand is in question for many gamers now that once would have considered themselves loyalists. Only the die-hard loyalists, special cases and a few franchise followers really cling to the PS3 and PSP as their one and only bastions of gaming. That's not to offend or attack anyone here, that's just a general fact.

Some reason's why the Sony brand is in question for many Gamers (in no particular order):

1. Blu-Ray's questionable and slow take off and uncertain future.

2. The PS3's price tag because of the assumption that the consumer actually wanted Blu-Ray or needed it this early.

3. Corporate hypocrisy: Abandoning full BC (then BC altogether) and releasing an inferior cheaper SKU at launch (both things Sony criticized the 360 of doing).

4. Multiple out-of-the-blue (from the perspective of the consumer) SKUs and price drops showing lack of certainty in the PS3's future (i.e. should I wait to buy a PS3?).

5. An underperforming game library which appeals largely to just the hardcore demographic now instead of broader multiple demographics which made the PS and PS2 successes.

6. A portable gaming system which offers little hope for how the PS3 might turn out years down the road.

7. Backpeddling like "We know we said Dualshock was last gen but now you want it again, okay?" and "We know we said the PS3 would be BC, but BC is actually what was suppossed to be last gen, not dualshock, okay?" And now saying that they'll be shying away from impressive HD games in the future for more manageable lower graphic games to boost the library.

8. "Gimmicks" like Six-Axis, unimproved Dualshock and the PS-Eye which just showcase lack-luster innovation (and in the case of Six-Axis, stealing an idea from a company which Sony dismissed as being a gimmick to begin with).

This is not Sony bashing, its the reality of Sony perception for many gamers and whether you agree with it or not, its not you that these reflect, its the people who haven't bought a PS3 yet. If you have issue with me bringing such points up, all I ask is that you don't shoot the messenger.

Ok its true, the sixaxis blows.

But Blu-Ray makes sense to me. With every console upgrade their needs to be a media upgrade. More complex programming and graphics calls for more space. If not the upgrade from a PS2 isnt worth it. I mean what people are complaining about is the fact that the PS3 plays movies? So? If the PS3 had used DVD, then one year into development it would be experiencing problems with space.

God of War 2 came out, what, less than a year ago? (Maybe, lol) You need more space to develop, and the PS3 has that. It just happens to double as a bluray player.
As far as games go, please come on. Two hyped up games have released, on flopped, the other one was short but extremely sweet. This all comes to an end as early as next week. Why release your AAA games with such a low install base? Ghost Recon 2 was fun as hell on the PS3, but since there was never anyone one, finding games took up half of the playing time.

The rest of the flops were bad ports. You cant blame that on Sony, or expect it to continue very much longer. EA cant keep blaming the PS3 when games like Ratchet and Clank are possible. Its not the PS3, its them. That will change.

And so what, they moved around SKUs. Whats funny about this is, how many 60/20 gb do you think are actually out there? LOL. I mean they have only sold 5 million! 40gb and 80gb. They had to do something at pricing, but you cnat come out and say "Shit, we messed up. Sorry let us take back our PS3's, were changing it up a bit."

They gradually fixed price and SKU's this year. Its PR. I bet they planned to do this from as early as January. How pissed would people be if they discontinued their SKU and drop the price $200 all at once? (Sorry Europe, LOL) But seriously, Sony was doing horribly out the gate, but I think they are in a good position now. Once these games come out in the next 6 months we may all feel a bit different.

Sony does have some gr8 games on the way. But I think the damage is done. 360 will continue to get probably 90% of the third party games that are developed. where I gues PS3 may end up with about 65% throughout it's course. Just the way I see it. Last gen Eternal Sonata would have been on PS2 and not Xbox. But this gen it's on 360 and not PS3. It's a JRPG!

I don't think MS will rush their next machine, for a start, where exactly are they going to go with it? They are obviously going to boost the power but to what gain? theres no resolution bump to boast about, online gaming is pretty much perfect too. This may be part of the factors behing sonys much touted 10 year gameplan (and the fact its going to take them 10 years to make a profit!).

With last gen, the first few enerations of 360 games looked to all extents like xbox games in HD, even the ones that were 360 exclusives, only when in HD could you really tell the difference. For MS to relase the xbox3 and have the same low standards when the PS3 will no doubt be at the stage where its being pushed to its limits, the differences will probably be very hard for the average joe to even notice.

For anyone to release a machine with say 5x the power, what noticeable differences is that going to make? GFX on the current generation (wii excluded ofcourse) are, to the naked eye almost CG standards.

I think we are pretty much near the ceiling of our 3D capabilities now, its only the fact that some developers are lazy or unskilled that some games look rubbish.

The Wii is in a great position in this respect, it can take a bump upto 360 graphics next gen and still look comparable to the PS4/xbox3, without having a ridiculous price tag.

If this was to happen, nintendo could probably buy sony and MS and take over the world. the end ;)

Microsoft has shown time and again that they're in the console business for real. They simply will NOT let the PS3 steal their momentum. Sony has a huge challenge on their hands, and they don't have the money or strategy to win it.

After this holiday season, it will become much clearer than it is now, but the red ink is starting to flow for the PS3.

I see it like this, the PS3 and the Xbox 360 will have close numbers like how the original Xbox and the Gamecube were. But I see that the PS3 will have a edge because of the Playstation brand or it could be the other way around.

But to be honest I don't give a sh*t about first, second, or third. A console is a console. It plays games, If it withdraws then its a failure and then you can say its last place. But the war is still going.

I see what people are saying about games. Its true 3rd party has opted alot for the 360 because its easier and has a high attach rate.

Basically they make more money for less effort. But its not that the 360 is a bad system, but people dont like the brand.

SO when the PS3 catches up to the xbox, the question comes up . Why not make 3rd party games for the PS3 as well? Its all about money, so if you make it for both consoles your bound to make more money.

With new dev tools/ more experience the ports wont be as bad. Next year same time you will prob see ports start going the other way around. From pS3 to 360.

PS2 owners are going to go PS3 if the Xbox cant convince people to buy a 360 on its own. The PS3 being bad currently isnt enough to sway people because the 360 still costs $300+.

PS2 owners will go to the PS3 because of familiarity, features, and the Sony brand name.