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Forums - General - Greatest scientific evidence for evolution?

Baroque_Dude said:
Final-Fan said:
Without commenting on it, I'd like to repost the relevant parts so people can judge my allegation that what HWS101 said isn't what you argued against:

highwaystar101
"Evolution and the big bang are perfectly compatible theories with Christianity, as long as long as you accept god was the creator then why couldn't evolution and the big bang just be his methods of creation?"

Baroque_Dude
"One may embrace creationism or not, but if you call yourself a Christian (that means not only accepting Christ as your Saviour, but also accepting what He taught and He didn't change the Old Testament nor the Creation account), it's utterly stupid to believe "in" evolution. I repeat, I'm not referring to discuss if evolution is true or not, I'm pointing out that saying to be Christian and believing in evolution isn't simply compatible."

Final-Fan
"I think you're putting way too much on the phrase "believing IN evolution". Most people who might say yes to "do you believe in evolution?" really mean that they are confident in the correctness of the theory, not that they subscribe dogmatically to some mythical faith revolving around evolution."

Baroque_Dude
"That's why I put "believe "in" evolution. Do you see that?"

Again, I just wanted to put that so people can remember what we were even talking about.

And I just wanted to comment here so people can see that you copy and paste according to your convenience...

My supposed last reply WASN'T that. Stop manipulating. I already replied you on that and everybody CAN check my posts and realize how strangely you're acting.

"That's why I put "believe "in" evolution. Do you see that?
"We humans accept and assume things differently, sometimes. When I say that they believe in evolution I was precisely referring to what you said, although I must also say that a lot of people accept it "just because".
"Regards."

Oh wow, I can see how the full version of your reply completely changes the meaning, in that it doesn't at all.  HWS101's paraphrase describes that "confidence in evolutionary theory's correctness" is an option; your argument is that "subscribing to a faith about evolution" is not an option.   

Or is the problem that "I was precisely referring to what you said" doesn't specify WHICH one you're talking about?  Is your position that even thinking that evolutionary theory might be correct is incompatible with being Christian?   



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
Final-Fan said:
Baroque_Dude said:
Final-Fan said:
Without commenting on it, I'd like to repost the relevant parts so people can judge my allegation that what HWS101 said isn't what you argued against:

highwaystar101
"Evolution and the big bang are perfectly compatible theories with Christianity, as long as long as you accept god was the creator then why couldn't evolution and the big bang just be his methods of creation?"

Baroque_Dude
"One may embrace creationism or not, but if you call yourself a Christian (that means not only accepting Christ as your Saviour, but also accepting what He taught and He didn't change the Old Testament nor the Creation account), it's utterly stupid to believe "in" evolution. I repeat, I'm not referring to discuss if evolution is true or not, I'm pointing out that saying to be Christian and believing in evolution isn't simply compatible."

Final-Fan
"I think you're putting way too much on the phrase "believing IN evolution". Most people who might say yes to "do you believe in evolution?" really mean that they are confident in the correctness of the theory, not that they subscribe dogmatically to some mythical faith revolving around evolution."

Baroque_Dude
"That's why I put "believe "in" evolution. Do you see that?"

Again, I just wanted to put that so people can remember what we were even talking about.

And I just wanted to comment here so people can see that you copy and paste according to your convenience...

My supposed last reply WASN'T that. Stop manipulating. I already replied you on that and everybody CAN check my posts and realize how strangely you're acting.

"That's why I put "believe "in" evolution. Do you see that?
"We humans accept and assume things differently, sometimes. When I say that they believe in evolution I was precisely referring to what you said, although I must also say that a lot of people accept it "just because".
"Regards."

Oh wow, I can see how the full version of your reply completely changes the meaning, in that it doesn't at all.  HWS101's paraphrase describes that "confidence in evolutionary theory's correctness" is an option; your argument is that "subscribing to a faith about evolution" is not an option.   

Or is the problem that "I was precisely referring to what you said" doesn't specify WHICH one you're talking about?  Is your position that even thinking that evolutionary theory might be correct is incompatible with being Christian?   

I replied you a thousand times.

Since it seems that you're the only one who doesn't understand although I keep replying, I will NOT reply anymore on this.



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

If you say so.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

ManusJustus said:
Slimebeast said:
Kasz216 said:

Christanity has some elementry beliefs NOW.

Christianity was not always so.  Christanity used to be one of the most diverse religions out there until it was mainstraimed and widdled down by the romans itno an exact "Roman" way of christanity by mans hands.

Most of these core beliefs were made so then.  Including creationism.

You shouldn't be so angry at people who wish to undue some of the harm the Roman empire has done to Christanity.

The only REAL core christian belief is that Jesus died for peoples sins as a martyr... a symbol of god accepting us despite us mostly using freewill to be selfish, prideful dicks.

Even Jesus' divinity wasn't a core christian principle until after the romans took over.

The community was actually split fairly even to that fact.  The Divinity folks winning out mostly because it would play better with people.  Rome having a fine history of demi-gods already. 

Wow, I didn't expect this from you Kasz. I didn't know u had such a distorted view of the early Church history with the Church fathers, and Christianity's first couple of hundred of years.

Someone needs to address the untrue claims you make, but I can't be bothered with it at the moment cos I'm off playing Quake Wars in a moment.

Kasz is 100% accurate.  Christianity was very diverse before the Romans centralized the religion.

Marcionism

Marcionism rejects the entire Hebrew Bible, and declared that the God of the Hebrew Bible was a lesser demiurge, who had created the earth, but was the source of evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

Monarchianism

Emphasize God as being one person and the only ruler of his kingdom. The term "Monarchians" or "Monarchists" was given to Christians who defended the "monarchy" of God in a reaction against the Logos theology of Justin Martyr and the apologists, who had spoken of Jesus as a "second god.

http://.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchianism

Adoptionism

Belief that Jesus was born merely human and that he became divine later in his life. By these accounts, Jesus earned the title Christ through his sinless devotion to the will of God, thereby becoming the perfect sacrifice to redeem humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoptionism

I am very aware of those, but there's some diversity in all ideologies and religions (communism, socialism, capitalism, islam, hinduism, Cristianity, konfucianism etc).

First you gotta quanitfy the impact and relevance of those branches if you're gonna make an argument (they were small). And Kasz is completelt wrong in saying it wasn't until Roman influense in the 4th century that Christianity was unified. Even Paul and John in the NT itself are warning about gnosticism. The Canon was set in the 2nd century already. Etc.



Slimebeast said:
ManusJustus said:
Slimebeast said:
Kasz216 said:

Christanity has some elementry beliefs NOW.

Christianity was not always so.  Christanity used to be one of the most diverse religions out there until it was mainstraimed and widdled down by the romans itno an exact "Roman" way of christanity by mans hands.

Most of these core beliefs were made so then.  Including creationism.

You shouldn't be so angry at people who wish to undue some of the harm the Roman empire has done to Christanity.

The only REAL core christian belief is that Jesus died for peoples sins as a martyr... a symbol of god accepting us despite us mostly using freewill to be selfish, prideful dicks.

Even Jesus' divinity wasn't a core christian principle until after the romans took over.

The community was actually split fairly even to that fact.  The Divinity folks winning out mostly because it would play better with people.  Rome having a fine history of demi-gods already. 

Wow, I didn't expect this from you Kasz. I didn't know u had such a distorted view of the early Church history with the Church fathers, and Christianity's first couple of hundred of years.

Someone needs to address the untrue claims you make, but I can't be bothered with it at the moment cos I'm off playing Quake Wars in a moment.

Kasz is 100% accurate.  Christianity was very diverse before the Romans centralized the religion.

Marcionism

Marcionism rejects the entire Hebrew Bible, and declared that the God of the Hebrew Bible was a lesser demiurge, who had created the earth, but was the source of evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

Monarchianism

Emphasize God as being one person and the only ruler of his kingdom. The term "Monarchians" or "Monarchists" was given to Christians who defended the "monarchy" of God in a reaction against the Logos theology of Justin Martyr and the apologists, who had spoken of Jesus as a "second god.

http://.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchianism

Adoptionism

Belief that Jesus was born merely human and that he became divine later in his life. By these accounts, Jesus earned the title Christ through his sinless devotion to the will of God, thereby becoming the perfect sacrifice to redeem humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoptionism

I am very aware of those, but there's some diversity in all ideologies and religions (communism, socialism, capitalism, islam, hinduism, Cristianity, konfucianism etc).

First you gotta quanitfy the impact and relevance of those branches if you're gonna make an argument (they were small). And Kasz is completelt wrong in saying it wasn't until Roman influense in the 4th century that Christianity was unified. Even Paul and John in the NT itself are warning about gnosticism. The Canon was set in the 2nd century already. Etc.

They were not small, an example Marcion of Sinope (founder of Marcionism) had a large following.  They were not unified in the second century, and example being Paul of Samosata (supporter of adoptionism) whose teachings flourished in the first millenia.



Around the Network
ManusJustus said:
Slimebeast said:
ManusJustus said:
Slimebeast said:
Kasz216 said:

Christanity has some elementry beliefs NOW.

Christianity was not always so.  Christanity used to be one of the most diverse religions out there until it was mainstraimed and widdled down by the romans itno an exact "Roman" way of christanity by mans hands.

Most of these core beliefs were made so then.  Including creationism.

You shouldn't be so angry at people who wish to undue some of the harm the Roman empire has done to Christanity.

The only REAL core christian belief is that Jesus died for peoples sins as a martyr... a symbol of god accepting us despite us mostly using freewill to be selfish, prideful dicks.

Even Jesus' divinity wasn't a core christian principle until after the romans took over.

The community was actually split fairly even to that fact.  The Divinity folks winning out mostly because it would play better with people.  Rome having a fine history of demi-gods already. 

Wow, I didn't expect this from you Kasz. I didn't know u had such a distorted view of the early Church history with the Church fathers, and Christianity's first couple of hundred of years.

Someone needs to address the untrue claims you make, but I can't be bothered with it at the moment cos I'm off playing Quake Wars in a moment.

Kasz is 100% accurate.  Christianity was very diverse before the Romans centralized the religion.

Marcionism

Marcionism rejects the entire Hebrew Bible, and declared that the God of the Hebrew Bible was a lesser demiurge, who had created the earth, but was the source of evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

Monarchianism

Emphasize God as being one person and the only ruler of his kingdom. The term "Monarchians" or "Monarchists" was given to Christians who defended the "monarchy" of God in a reaction against the Logos theology of Justin Martyr and the apologists, who had spoken of Jesus as a "second god.

http://.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchianism

Adoptionism

Belief that Jesus was born merely human and that he became divine later in his life. By these accounts, Jesus earned the title Christ through his sinless devotion to the will of God, thereby becoming the perfect sacrifice to redeem humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoptionism

I am very aware of those, but there's some diversity in all ideologies and religions (communism, socialism, capitalism, islam, hinduism, Cristianity, konfucianism etc).

First you gotta quanitfy the impact and relevance of those branches if you're gonna make an argument (they were small). And Kasz is completelt wrong in saying it wasn't until Roman influense in the 4th century that Christianity was unified. Even Paul and John in the NT itself are warning about gnosticism. The Canon was set in the 2nd century already. Etc.

They were not small, an example Marcion of Sinope (founder of Marcionism) had a large following.  They were not unified in the second century, and example being Paul of Samosata (supporter of adoptionism) whose teachings flourished in the first millenia.

Marcion was significant, but the early church fathers condemned his teachings clearly. As I said, there's always some offsprings of every ideology.



Slimebeast said:

Marcion was significant, but the early church fathers condemned his teachings clearly. As I said, there's always some offsprings of every ideology.

Paul of Samosata was an early church father.  He was the bishop of Antioch in the 3rd century and taught that Jesus was born a man but was adopted by God.  His theology, Paulicianism, was significantly large in the medieval period and survived until the 19th century.



ManusJustus said:
Slimebeast said:

Marcion was significant, but the early church fathers condemned his teachings clearly. As I said, there's always some offsprings of every ideology.

Paul of Samosata was an early church father.  He was the bishop of Antioch in the 3rd century and taught that Jesus was born a man but was adopted by God.  His theology, Paulicianism, was significantly large in the medieval period and survived until the 19th century.

Well, he was wrong.



Slimebeast said:
ManusJustus said:
Slimebeast said:

Marcion was significant, but the early church fathers condemned his teachings clearly. As I said, there's always some offsprings of every ideology.

Paul of Samosata was an early church father.  He was the bishop of Antioch in the 3rd century and taught that Jesus was born a man but was adopted by God.  His theology, Paulicianism, was significantly large in the medieval period and survived until the 19th century.

Well, he was wrong.

Well, thats your opinion, and that opinion is no more supported than any other religious opinion.



In popular speech speech the word theory means a "guess". But a scienticfic theory is more then a guess. Its a logical tested, well supported explanation for a set of facts. Great evidence to support the theory are:

 

Radiometric Dating

Stratigraphy 

Molecular Clocks 

The Fossil Records 

Transitional Forms 

Theory of Natural Selection 

Divergent Evolution Paths 

Convergent Evolution Paths 

Parrelle Evoultion Paths 

Genetic Drift 

 



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