appolose said:
Khuutra said:
appolose said:
Khuutra said:
And we're done here.
Final-Fan, can this end now?
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If it's possible to observe that the answer is not physical, how are we done, exactly?
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It's not possible to observe that the answer is not physical. You cannot observe the absence of something, only your inability to detect it. Or, rather, it's not possible to observe what something is not, because you cannot perform some kind of negative observation. It is impossible to eliminate the natural or the physical.
That's why we're done. We've come to the impasse, the one great misunderstanding which you do not seem to want to get around. So we're done. There's nothing else to say, and anything past this point would just be repeating points already elaborated on.
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"Energy cannot be created or destroyed"
That is the first law of thermodynamics.
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The first law is actually
The increase in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system, minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings
Which is of course to say that according to our observations, energy that goes in = energy that comes out. It's not phrased negatively because you can't make a negative observation.
More, this is just in keeping with observations up to this point. If something popped up that violated thermodynamics (violated entropy) then it would be out the window, good-bye, so long.
It is not possible to eliminate the natural or the physical, only to change one's suppositions. If you have "eliminated every possible physical cause", then no, actually, you haven't, and you are a bad scientist if you lack the imagination sufficient to say as much.
You cannot eliminate all physical causes, not even hypothetically. It violates logic. You don't see how it violates logic, that's ifne, I don't hold it against you, but it also means that continuing the conversation has become pointless.