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Forums - General Discussion - Would you sacrifice a life to save ten?

oh.... would I sacrifice someone to save others... No, I'm not god. ( had to throw that last part in highway )



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

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trashleg said:
Johann said:
Everyone wants to be the hero... this is so fucking typical. I hate humanity.
Surely you wouldn't send somebody to their death, cuz that wouldn't look cool, but you're fully prepared to give up your life, right? Selfish hypocrites...

but someone who would send another to his death, while he himself avoids the situation, is a coward. fair enough if he says "i wouldnt go in there, so i wouldnt expect anyone else to go in either", but if he's protecting himself whilst sending in others, thats just selfish.

And wanting to die a hero isn't?



Quem disse que a boca é tua?

Qual é, Dadinho...?

Dadinho é o caralho! Meu nome agora é Zé Pequeno!

Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
Everyone wants to be the hero... this is so fucking typical. I hate humanity.
Surely you wouldn't send somebody to their death, cuz that wouldn't look cool, but you're fully prepared to give up your life, right? Selfish hypocrites...

but someone who would send another to his death, while he himself avoids the situation, is a coward. fair enough if he says "i wouldnt go in there, so i wouldnt expect anyone else to go in either", but if he's protecting himself whilst sending in others, thats just selfish.

And wanting to die a hero isn't?

its not heroics, its called valuing human life.



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
trashleg said:
Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
Everyone wants to be the hero... this is so fucking typical. I hate humanity.
Surely you wouldn't send somebody to their death, cuz that wouldn't look cool, but you're fully prepared to give up your life, right? Selfish hypocrites...

but someone who would send another to his death, while he himself avoids the situation, is a coward. fair enough if he says "i wouldnt go in there, so i wouldnt expect anyone else to go in either", but if he's protecting himself whilst sending in others, thats just selfish.

And wanting to die a hero isn't?

its not heroics, its called valuing human life.

If it was just about valuing life, it wouldn't matter if it were you or somebody else.

Have you ever heard of ethical egoism?



Quem disse que a boca é tua?

Qual é, Dadinho...?

Dadinho é o caralho! Meu nome agora é Zé Pequeno!

Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
Everyone wants to be the hero... this is so fucking typical. I hate humanity.
Surely you wouldn't send somebody to their death, cuz that wouldn't look cool, but you're fully prepared to give up your life, right? Selfish hypocrites...

but someone who would send another to his death, while he himself avoids the situation, is a coward. fair enough if he says "i wouldnt go in there, so i wouldnt expect anyone else to go in either", but if he's protecting himself whilst sending in others, thats just selfish.

And wanting to die a hero isn't?

its not heroics, its called valuing human life.

If it was just about valuing life, it wouldn't matter if it were you or somebody else.

Have you ever heard of ethical egoism?

but to make such a decision over that person's life, to assume that such a decision is your own to make, also seems a bit off to me.

no i haven't, can you explain it to me?



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
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trashleg said:
Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
Everyone wants to be the hero... this is so fucking typical. I hate humanity.
Surely you wouldn't send somebody to their death, cuz that wouldn't look cool, but you're fully prepared to give up your life, right? Selfish hypocrites...

but someone who would send another to his death, while he himself avoids the situation, is a coward. fair enough if he says "i wouldnt go in there, so i wouldnt expect anyone else to go in either", but if he's protecting himself whilst sending in others, thats just selfish.

And wanting to die a hero isn't?

its not heroics, its called valuing human life.

If it was just about valuing life, it wouldn't matter if it were you or somebody else.

Have you ever heard of ethical egoism?

but to make such a decision over that person's life, to assume that such a decision is your own to make, also seems a bit off to me.

no i haven't, can you explain it to me?

I thought this was all assuming that the person would know that their giving up their life.

 

Anyway, for the egoism thing, it's related to the notion that there are no (completely) selfless good deeds. You wouldn't do something nice for someone else for absolutely no reward, even if the reward is feeling good about yourself.

Edit: I just checked wikipedia, and apparently I was confusing ethical egoism with psychological egoism. Sorry about that.

 



Quem disse que a boca é tua?

Qual é, Dadinho...?

Dadinho é o caralho! Meu nome agora é Zé Pequeno!

Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
trashleg said:
Johann said:
Everyone wants to be the hero... this is so fucking typical. I hate humanity.
Surely you wouldn't send somebody to their death, cuz that wouldn't look cool, but you're fully prepared to give up your life, right? Selfish hypocrites...

but someone who would send another to his death, while he himself avoids the situation, is a coward. fair enough if he says "i wouldnt go in there, so i wouldnt expect anyone else to go in either", but if he's protecting himself whilst sending in others, thats just selfish.

And wanting to die a hero isn't?

its not heroics, its called valuing human life.

If it was just about valuing life, it wouldn't matter if it were you or somebody else.

Have you ever heard of ethical egoism?

but to make such a decision over that person's life, to assume that such a decision is your own to make, also seems a bit off to me.

no i haven't, can you explain it to me?

I thought this was all assuming that the person would know that their giving up their life.

 

Anyway, for the egoism thing, it's related to the notion that there are no (completely) selfless good deeds. You wouldn't do something nice for someone else for absolutely no reward, even if the reward is feeling good about yourself.

 

without bigging myself up here, i have a story for you.. i gave up my chance to go to university so that i could lend my mum £700 a few months ago so she could pay the rent.. because she kept dipping into the rent money to buy herself cigarettes and clothes. then i decided to work really hard so i COULD go to uni, i had to get a summer job and i had to go extend my overdraft and take out a credit card to ensure that i was able to go, and now im in shitloads of debt and i don't feel good about myself, because i worry about my financial situation and my mum still smokes and hasn't paid back anything yet and still spends money like its free. so there have been absolutely no rewards for me out of this whole thing.

so believe it or not, there ARE people out there who do selfless acts.



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.

yes

Edit: why you ask?

the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one 



Reasonable said:
If you mean would I issue and order in a situation like that, then yes I would. I'm assuming, given the context, that you're asking whether I as the chief would order one of my firemen to enter a building to save 10 but probably give his life in the process.

A similar analogy would be a combat situation - where an officer orders men to perform an action with a favourable outcome - taking out 10 enemy soldiers, at the loss of their life.

So yes, if I was in the senior position, and I felt I was within acceptable bounds of asking my men to do their job, I would - even if it meant the loss of their life.

To the best of my knowledge, you never give orders to that effect if the person in question will certainly die, because dying tends to mean failure, particularly for fire men.

Actually, while I'm on that, even if we just look at the exchange of lives as another form of economic expression, then sending a fireman to die in order to save ten does not make sense, becaus he can save dozens more throughout the years if he continues his career. The greatest good a public servant can do is to continue living and to continue saving lives, but their own lives do have to be preserved.

More, can we try to weigh the value of human life, trying to say that some lives musut be worth more than others, if only through numbers? How about through potential good done? How about actions up to that point in time? By assigning value to life, are we not cheapening it, making it smaller than it is, trying to rid ourselves of tragedy by quantifying what should or should not be done in any given situation? I reject this. I have neither the moral fortitude nor the clarity of vision to claim that I would be able to balance the scales.



I used to go into some of the most scary situations without hesitation (and scared as hell too!) for $14 an hour. Several times, I thought to myself ,"Oh well. This is how I die". And then, I went and did whatever I was supposed to do.

I always wanted a heroic death.

If there was a hostage situation, and the gunman said "I'll let 10 of you go, if one of you sacrifices himself", I think I'd do it.......but first, he'd have to let me have sex with the hottest woman there (and she'd have to be pretty hot!). I have a kid, though. A lot of my recklessness is gone. Still, I'd like to think I'd do it.