^^
Good as emergency solution, but if your mouse collects a huge amount of crud using it on a polished suface or a mouse mat, imagine how much it collects using it regularly on a wearable out material like paper...

So much fail....sooo very much fail. The used game market is good for devs in the same way the used car market is good for auto makers. Since you probably won't understand, let me explain. Say you bought a brand new car last year. This year, the new model is a "must have" for you. But you don't need/want a second car, and you have no money for one since you just bought a new car last year. You got all the enjoyment out of your old one, and are want to try a new one. What do you do? You sell the car. Now you have cash in hand, and can afford to go buy that new car. See where I am going with this? If you have three games that you beat, a new game just came out that looks amazing, but you have no cash. What do you do? You sell those games you will probably never play again, and use the money to buy the new game. Now, if you had never sold the used game, chances are, you would not have bought the new one. Also, this is good for the consoles. See, if fewer people can afford the games, fewer consoles will be sold, if fewer consoles are sold, fewer new games will be sold because less people will be interested in playing that game their friend doesn't have. 

Back on topic....

PCs are better for some game types, but as a whole, consoles offer a more uniform, cheaper, user friendly, comfortable gaming experiance. 

Consoles don't have the same degree of cheating as PCs do, it is much harder to truely manipulate your network without having to go through complex proceedures on a console. It is also much harder to mod your games or hardware to give you an unfair advantage.

Console controls are more user friendly, less buttons to keep track of, no getting destroyed by the guy with the $300.00 lazer precision, fully customizeable, extra precise, wireless mouse and keyboard set.  

Consoles are cheaper, no need to upgrade anything just so you can play the latest game, it's a one time purchase baby!

Nobody has an unfair advantage when it comes to graphics. You aren't going to get raped by the guy who has the $500.00 crossfired Graphics card running full bore, while you are running your pos $120 graphics card barely limping along.

Console win on almost every level....I really don't know why anybody is bothering to try and argue that.

Ok... So then if you pirate then you have even more money to buy new games..... What the hell is your point here cause it seems to me you fail a whole lot with your explanation. Also why bother buying the new gme when I can get it cheaper when I buy it used, thus the developer never gets money fom me anyhow.

Also laser mice don't give  nowehere near as much benefit as you might think. Also you don't need to upgrade to play the most recent games. If you want them to look truly good then yes, however curently you don't need to upgrade anything all that much to have graphics better than what the consoles have for the rest of the generation. Also this might be a ewsflash for you, but you don't have to play on highest settings of all video options, that's why options exist.

I also can't help but laugh how much you put oon graphics. Did you know some people in some shooter games actually LOWER their graphical settings just so they can distinguish enemies from the surroindings better. In that case that $500 video card is actually a detriment not a boon.

As for cheating, honestly I haven't ran into that many cheaters, maybe a dozen every 6 months, so that's a dozen matches ruined in total out of what? Thousands? Yeah... definitely matters so much.

I can't imagine how anyone else could hve stuck more fail in one post than you did right there to be honest, since you obivously don't know crap about gaming on PCs to begin with. Or if you do then you are just acting like someone who doesn't have the slightest idea.

Well, first off, you completely missed my point, but just to play along for a second... What you just implied, was that I said that if you steal a car, you have more money to buy a new one. This is obviously true, But people who steal cars...or game in this instance, are not likely to spend ANY money on a new one, whereas people who buy a lot of used games, may actually be able to, and want to buy a new one every once in a while. Now, in reality, a used game, has been paid for, then sold, freeing up more money to buy yet another NEW game. Also, remeber, you have to WAIT to buy the used game as somebody has to buy it first, and play it. Oh hey, here is another fun fact, people are more likely to buy a new game if they know that they can sell it once they are done, or if it turns out to be a dud.  As a side note, I just had this thought, the used game industry is also good for devs in the respect that most used retailer also sell and advertise for NEW games. More exposure, and more outlets = more sales. So, your point is completely and utterly ridiculous.

Dude, A really good mouse and a fully customizeable keyboard gives a person a pretty significant advantage. Also, in order to not have to upgrade to play the latest, one would have to buy a PC with really good stats, people who do are a minority. A news flash for you, you don't need to fiddle with ANY graphics setting on a console, and the only variance anybody will ever see, is in whatever they have for a TV.

I can't help but ROTFL at what you said about graphics. First off, you said "Some People" I have a feeling that , once again this is a minority. Even still, your statment only helps to solidify my argument that consoles are better. After all, you said that lower graphical settings are better, and as we all know, a console has lower graphical settings.

As for cheating, you are either lucky, or couldn't see a cheater if they were staring you in the face, The PC lends itself VERY well to cheating.

So...now, what were you saying about a fail post? Cuz I think you just topped your last one.

vlad you are seriously defending the indefensible right now.  (WRT 'used games = piracy')

"Nobody has an unfair advantage when it comes to graphics. You aren't going to get raped by the guy who has the $500.00 crossfired Graphics card running full bore, while you are running your pos $120 graphics card barely limping along."

Fun fact - a "pos" 120$ graphics card (such as this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131140&cm_re=4870-_-14-131-140-_-Product) is playing everything except Crysis on max settings at 1080p, at framerates and with graphical quality the HD twins could only imagine in their wildest dreams.  Mine is, for example, hitting the framerate cap in UT3.

And no, it doesn't need a 300$ CPU either, something like this, or even cheaper is more than plenty: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103694&cm_re=phenom_ii_x2-_-19-103-694-_-Product A better CPU's nice for non-gaming tasks, but for gaming, really, you only need a good dual-core, except for oddballs like GTAIV which is a horribly coded game anyhow for PC.

Hell, for performance comparable to or better than the HD twins, you'd only need to buy a 65$ Athlon II and a 65$ Radeon HD 4670, probably.

And you know what? In a month's time, you'll probably be able to pick up a 4870 for even cheaper, when the 5000-series cards come out.

"vlad you are seriously defending the indefensible right now. (WRT 'used games = piracy')"

I don't see how you can't make the comparison - used games and piracy both cause the exact same financial loss to developers and publishers, the only differences are that one is considered illegal and the other is not, and also one the industry is actively trying to prevent, but the other it's actually backing off on attempting to prevent. When used games are more of a concern to the industry than piracy, it really shows you how it feels on the issue. :)

True, there can be cheating on the PC. It just depends on what game you're playing and such. However, if you're a regular in a moderated server, then it's not all doom and gloom. I've even seen a video of somebody with an aimbot for the curveball flash game, lol.

I disagree here. I've been using a standard dell keyboard since 2003 (with the green PS/2 connector) and I used to use a standard mouse too and played well. The only improved input I have is a Logitech G5 mouse and that only cost $45.

Sure consoles can have a cheaper cost to get into them, but I still like to play games on PC as well. I play games on both and since my computer does more than just play games, I like to improve it from time to time. Screw this one or the other thing.

As far as graphics are concerned, it seems like people arguing for console are the bigger graphic whores . While PC gamers talk about playing games in higher resolution and such, it's not REQUIRED to enjoy your games and you can turn down settings if you have to. By the way (as somebody else pointed out) a ~$130 9800gtx+, Radeon 4850 and 4870 are good cards. SLI or Crossfire of those cards would still be cheaper than the $500 you're quoting and I recall finding the Radeon 4870 x2 on newegg for ~$300 (they're gone now, probably for the new 58xx series releasing shortly). You don't need a GTX 295 to play games.

While on the subject, I'm using a bottom of the barrel processor. While I do have it overclocked, it still has worked well enough for costing under $100. Paried with an 8800gt, games run well. Crysis in DX9 with very high settings enabled produces a playable game (even if it chokes a bit in certain areas) and the benchmark tool for Resident Evil 5 produced visuals that looked the same as the console version (at least it did from playing the demo) with a steady framerate of around 55 or so.

I prefer console. The feeling of sitting back n relax gaming is my fun and you can play with more people beside you.

I dont like sitting too close to PC for gaming and you cant play with others offline for most games, and the idea of constantly spending money to keep upgrading hurts my head and wallet.

(sure upgrading is a choice but i'd like to play games to the best and fullest extent which is why console games is as good as it gets)

@Final-Fan

I'm not saying it's the same, I'm saying that both let players play a dev's games without the dev's seeing any money from said player.

As to you, A mouse and a fully customizable kbd does NOT give any particular benefits at all. Also try playing UT3 a little bit, anyone who is going to get every advantage turns off things such as bloom and other crap which a top of the line PC supports since it's far easier to see player models against bland backgrounds. Don't try to push it as something else. Did you know that some of the "cheats" actually turn off ALL graphics and bring down a shooter down to wireframes of the polygons? You don't need money to get any advantage over people.

However if you want to play single-player and not competatively, I don't see how having a better looking game is bad.

Sorry, I missed this one the first time through. Not that I had time to respond...

I know it wasn't your point; I brought them up as a joking aside. I repeat what I said earlier: even if the PC never gets motion controls, what makes you think that it will therefore automatically fail in the future? Remember that the goal of motion controls is to lower the barriers to entry and to reduce the fear factor most people have of the dual analogue controllers, not "more immersion" or any of the other reasons people like to falsely throw out there. This comes from no less an authority on the subject that Nintendo itself, which makes it hard to argue with!

Here's the thing though: damn near everyone in the Western world is already familiar with the PC's controls. There is much less fear over the (highly familiar) keyboard and mouse than there is over that bizzare crescent-thing with the buttons and sticks and colors. Motion controllers may eventually enter the PC market too (Microsoft is trying to make that happen). But their absence is much less fatal for PCs than it is on consoles. So assuming, arguendo, that PCs never get some form of motion controls, what evidence do you have to support the conclusion that this will really matter?

I think you're selling the value of competition and the like short, but for the sake of discussion I'm willing to go with the sentiment here, if not the specifics.

You're factually incorrect about DRM. Only a small handful of titles have that highly-restrictive DRM, and many of THOSE games have since removed it. Check the link I posted last time; that move was the impetus behind the article.

As for the rental market, yes, it's an advantage. I believe I said so last time, and if I didn't, I do so now.

Not to be petty, but I do have to once again say that you only brought up the "rental" as opposed to the "used" market in a later post. The two terms are NOT interchangeable.

I won't lie, Zenfolder: you're really beginning to frustrate me. I suspect that you're reading my posts, without actually reading them.

Let me say it YET AGAIN...My PC, WHICH COST MUCH LESS THAN $500, performs MUCH BETTER at running HD games than the HD consoles do.

I repeat, My PC, WHICH COST MUCH LESS THAN $500, performs MUCH BETTER at running HD games than the HD consoles do.

Once more, with feeling: My PC, WHICH COST MUCH LESS THAN $500, performs MUCH BETTER at running HD games than the HD consoles do.

This is not "the cheapest shit available." This is far from "the cheapest shit available." It's a great PC that still costs less than any HD console (outside of the Arcade - happy FinalFan? ).

And for the record, not only are you STILL wrong about the PC not having a viable used gaming market (as I know BECAUSE I HAVE USED IT), but the price of entry for a PC has ZERO to do with a used or rental market. This paragraph is a classic example of a non-sequitir.

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SO WILL MY PC!!!!!!!111one!! ARRRRRGH!!!

Yes, the bare-bones HD experience costs a bit less than a great gaming PC. This has already been conceded (although not at the time you made this post).

I don't understand what one has to do with the other.

You say there's no used gaming market for PCs. I tell you that there is, and that I can get any used PC game I want with little effort. That's the entire point of the used market, no? Getting you the product you want second-hand with minimal effort? How does pointing out that a few console games have a level editor (which is NOT the same as mods, by the by) change this?

Again, you're not reading my responses. I'll repost it here this time, now with some bolding for emphasis:

I could tell you bits of my life story. Truth be told, I'm something of a technophobe. I have only a rudimentary understanding of electronic devices. When my computer at work quits on me, I immediately call IT and do nothing, out of fear of making things worse. Shoot, I'm so much of a technophobe that I only got my first cell phone a few months ago, and I still have no idea how to set up the message center thing. Before I went to college, I had to rely on friends and relatives to set up my games, and I often had to wait for them to return whenever I ran into even the simplest of problems. DOS scares me to this day. No, I am neither lying nor exaggerating about any of this.

I tell you all of this so you can understand what I mean when I say that I built my PC from scratch, on my own. It's ridiculously simple. I can walk you through it, if you want. If you can follow the instructions on a set of LEGOs, you can probably build your own PC, because both of them are literally the same thing: Thing A goes into Slot B. There is no magic behind it, no mysticism that requires consulting an oracle. Follow any of the simple instructions that you can find on the internet, and in ten minutes, you will have a new PC that's ready to go. Even installing the software is a matter of inserting a disc and following the prompts.

The days when PCs required a computer science degree just to pop open are long gone: they are simplified and streamlined to the point where even a luddite such as myself can build and operate them. There are still barriers, mind you, but thanks to the internet I haven't run into a single problem that couldn't be fixed within an hour. No, the real barriers behind modern PC gaming are twofold: fear and laziness. Many people are afraid of their computers, so they quit before they even try. Many people also lack the patience required to seek out and apply troubleshooting information. Were it not for these two things, modern PC gaming would be much more widely embraced.

Of course, just because they are few in number, it does not mean these barriers are minor. The thing is, both of these problems are ones of perception and commitment, rather than of skill. Zenfolder, I mean this seriously: if you want to learn the basics of your gaming PC, you can do so in little time and with little commitment. It is not difficult, so long as you can muster up the will to do so.

To sum it up, you're now arguing a moot point.

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