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Forums - PC - Fun Topic. Which are better for Gaming? PC's or Consoles?

jefforange89 on 13 September 2009

I would say yes, used and rentals are no different from piracy.

Except that one is frowned upon, and the other is not.



Wii/PC/DS Lite/PSP-2000 owner, shameless Nintendo and AMD fanboy.

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Final-Fan on 13 September 2009
jefforange89 said:
"Also, pirating games starts at or before launch. Used games are resold after an initial purchase. Every used game has been bought. Pirated copies have never been bought."

So then if I buy the game, wait a week, dump the DVD and put up a torrent, then it's okay?

Reading Comprehension time:  "EVERY USED GAME has been bought."  As in every COPY of the game.  So no, your torrent is not the same as selling your used game.  Unless only one person ever downloads it, and pays you for the privilege, and you never play that game again. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 13 September 2009
vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING THAT THE USED GAME MARKET IS EQUIVALENT TO PIRACY?

[edit:  oops, forgot to refresh -- everyone has already jumped on this.]

The end result is the same. THe developers get no money from you.

Edit: crap yoru edit came in too fast.

Oh, don't worry -- if you haven't slunk back into whatever corner spawned that terrible concept, I'll happily take you on. 

In the case of used/rental games, the developers got money from SOMEONE for every copy of the game that's out there.  In the case of piracy, they didn't. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Smidlee on 13 September 2009

To be fair piracy is probably worst since a game can be pirated at day one while it will take a while to buy a used copy of a game. Normally a game make most of it's money in the first few months which is all DRM is suppose to prevent. That is  to keep the game from being pirated in the first few weeks/months of a game.
The whole deal with piracy is really about the extremely high cost of developing games which effect both consoles and PC . As Stardock noted that they make a lot of money from non-game desktop programs yet these programs are the worst for being pirated than games are. This is one of the things Nintendo did see coming (also Sony and Microsoft) so they went a different route than the HD consoles did.



KungKras on 13 September 2009

PC is the best. Best exclusives, games never become obsolete you can just install them on the new PC when you upgrade. etc etc



I LOVE ICELAND!

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vlad321 on 13 September 2009
Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING THAT THE USED GAME MARKET IS EQUIVALENT TO PIRACY?

[edit:  oops, forgot to refresh -- everyone has already jumped on this.]

The end result is the same. THe developers get no money from you.

Edit: crap yoru edit came in too fast.

Oh, don't worry -- if you haven't slunk back into whatever corner spawned that terrible concept, I'll happily take you on. 

In the case of used/rental games, the developers got money from SOMEONE for every copy of the game that's out there.  In the case of piracy, they didn't. 

So say 10k people rent/circulate a game which someone paid for with 50 bucks. Definitely someone is getting the money and it's so much. How much does each person pay the developer? Thousandths of a cent?



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

twesterm on 13 September 2009
shio said:
twesterm said:

Compared to gaming on anything else, yes, I generally hate PC gaming for the reasons I've listed over and over again.

I'm not saying you or anyone else should hate PC gaming, it's cool that you like it for whatever reason, I just generally hate it for these reasons:

  • Upgrading your PC: I bought a "gaming laptop" last year that was pretty much top of the line.  It barely runs new games and runs hot as Hell.  Granted, yes, I bought a laptop and that's my own dumb fault, but I also use computers for things besides gaming and a laptop made more sense.
  • Not gaming on my awesome TV: lugging my computer from my office (have to go through the garage and up the stairs) or just fiddling with wires isn't fun and not something I like to do.  Even just leaving the wires ready isn't a good option because I use all my HDMI inputs and the wife doesn't like seeing wires hanging everywhere.  This just isn't a good option for me.
  • Couch vs. Office chair: I sit in an office chair all day long.  I don't want to come home and relax in an office chair to play games, I want to relax on my comfy couch.
  • PC Game Hassle: Even when I use Steam, there's still hassle.  When I don't use Steam, there's even more hassle.  As an added detriment, I'm left handed.  That means if I use the keyboard (which I'm probably going to do with a PC game) I have to remap every control.  I don't like going through 15 minutes of fiddling with settings before starting my game.  Then there's having to fiddle with the settings and tweaks in order to make the game run just right for your system.  Every game has a guide for getting it to run just right versus a game that automatically runs just right.  The most I have to fiddle with on console games is the darkness setting.
  • Sometimes PC games just don't work: Even with Steam games, I can have trouble getting PC games to work, don't know what else to say about that.
  • Patches/Installs:  Luckily Steam takes care a lot of this trouble but for any game that isn't on Steam it's still a giant pain in the ass.
  • DRM: Again, for every non-Steam game this can be a deal breaker.  I tried for hours to get KotorII to work and just couldn't because the DRM didn't like my DVD Burner.  The only alternative I had was to go look for a crack and hope it didn't have a virus.
  • PC Games are undersupported: PC games have no quality control like 360/PS3/Wii games have so it's pretty common that they are released buggy as all Hell.  These problems can be fixed quickly but would I rather have a 360 game working day one or a PC game working week two?

And there are advantages to PC games, I recognize that, just the disadvantages are far too great to bother with PC gaming.  These are my personal gripes for not liking PC gaming and Shio or whoever can come back and tell me that my opinions are wrong and I really don't care.  I hate PC gaming because I've had bad luck with it and console gaming is just so much better for me.

1. Why don't you shows us your gaming laptop's specs and tells us how much it cost (and when you bought). It seems to me that you made a bad purchase.

2. It's your own damn fault for not playing in your awesome TV. You have a goddamn "gaming laptop", which means you super easy plug it into the TV, you already have cables plugged on your TV from your consoles and can use them. I can't belive anyone could ever complain about this!!

3. First, the fact that you have to remap every control means that there's something wrong with your thought process. I have not remapped a PC game for a keyboard in over 3 years!! Second, what's the hassle with Steam? Let me hear you say it.

4. Sorry, but my guess is that you are bad at keeping your PC clean and neety. Since I joined Steam I have only had 1 problem on a Steam game, and that was from the game itself (which I eventually fixed).

5. Your statement is wrong. Nowadays almost any "big" has an update system in the game, which allows for far more efficient and hassle-free updating. And there are also several other services like Steam that make the updates themselves, like Impulse and Gamersgate.

6. Publishers have been leaving the DRM scheme, haven't you heard?! No one uses DRM with terrible reputation today, and hell, even Securom is now only used as a generic disc check. You are behind times.

7. How about the fact that today Epic still haven't fixed Gears of War 2's mutliplayer. The thing is, atleast with PC games, if a game comes out broken it shows in their critic scores, but atleast they can be infinitely improved, but on Xbox 360 you are only allowed to make one free update. Hell, they might even FORCE you to buy the update itself.. isn't that what's happening with the Valve and Call of Duty Games?!
  1. It's a Dell M1530 so top of the line is probably going too far but it's still a decent laptop.  Don't remember what I paid for it.  Even my previous laptop which was a top of the line (another Dell specifically made for game development) was outdated by the time I graduated (2 years).
  2. Again, please read everything before you comment.  All my ports are used up and the wife doesn't like cables hanging around.  I don't like fiddling around with cables.  That may be fine for you, it isn't fine for me.  Period.
  3. LEFT HANDED.  SOUTHPAW.  Right handed controls on a keyboard just aren't comfortable to me because I hold my mouse in my LEFT HAND.  What the fuck do I care if you don't remap your controls?  Do you want a cookie?  I don't have a huge hassle with Steam, just there are games that don't let me remap controls the way I want (Beyond Good and Evil) and it occassionally freezes up on me.
  4. Yes, because you've never had a problem nobody else can have one.  I use to work in IT so I know how to keep my computer running smoothly.
  5. I can't talk about a lot of new games since I haven't played them, I can only go off people I actually know that aren't fanatical about their love for PC game.  I wouldn't trust you if you told me the sky was blue.
  6. I guess every story I read talking about DRM is a lie.  There was even a big one with Batman AA and its use of DRM this week.
  7. I'm not sure what Gears 2 problem your talking about, but if it's a bug fix/patch you don't have to pay for it.  Also, I guess Gears 2 = all console games?  Can I pick one PC game with a problem and relate it to every PC game?

 



 

Mudface on 13 September 2009

Sorry, I'm a PC man through and through, but the used market = piracy line is complete bullshit and is where all the DRM bollocks originally came from.

If you buy a physical product, you have an absolute right to resell it. Yes, the publisher might want a cut of any further sales, but he ain't getting it. In the same way, the original producer of a CD/ DVD/ car/ TV/ stereo/ anything else you care to mention doesn't get money if you sell the item on.

Equating this with piracy is basically giving games publishers carte blanche to claim ownership of your purchase. This is where the limited activation brain wave came from- if they can control what you do with the game, they can destroy further sales of it and kill the second hand market. DRM is not for controlling piracy, it's for controlling you- pirates don't have to bother with it.

Oh, and a rental game bought by Blockbuster or whoever will cost a damn sight more than a retail game and will probably have a license whereby the publisher gets paid each time it gets taken out.



Final-Fan on 13 September 2009
vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
vlad321 said:
@Zenfolder

Ok, since we seem not to be caring about the money developers can make. You can pirate games on the PC for free. How can you beat that? When you rent and buy used games you still pay something, how do you beat free?

I hesitate to mention pirating as a positive for PC gaming, yet it probably is the reason a lot of people prefer it.

You mentioned used market. What's the difference between the two?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING THAT THE USED GAME MARKET IS EQUIVALENT TO PIRACY?

[edit:  oops, forgot to refresh -- everyone has already jumped on this.]

The end result is the same. THe developers get no money from you.

Edit: crap yoru edit came in too fast.

Oh, don't worry -- if you haven't slunk back into whatever corner spawned that terrible concept, I'll happily take you on. 

In the case of used/rental games, the developers got money from SOMEONE for every copy of the game that's out there.  In the case of piracy, they didn't. 

So say 10k people rent/circulate a game which someone paid for with 50 bucks. Definitely someone is getting the money and it's so much. How much does each person pay the developer? Thousandths of a cent?

WRONG!!!  $50/10000 is half a cent.  If $10 goes to the dev, that's one-tenth of a cent.  I can guarantee you're not getting anywhere near thousandths. 

Anyway, ten thousand people?  What's your timeframe, centuries?  You're being silly. 

You're also trying to obscure the fact that THE DEVELOPER GOT PAID. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Smidlee on 13 September 2009

used games sells does = piracy when it comes to debates.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/04/video-game-publishers-complain-again-about-used-video-game-sales-gamestop-defends-pactice-again/
Piracy & DRM & reselling used games have been around since C-64/Atari days. The reason it's such a big issue now is again the high cost of developing games and the fact that some publishers are having more trouble producing a profit.