@d21lewis

except EA back then was one mother of an except.

Its hard to see a console have a benchmark launch when the the strongest & dominant 3rd party won't support it

A launch isn't just week 1.....its year 1, the year where usually public mindshare/reputation is gained

As for a benchmark launch, I will have to give it too PS2. If PS2's HYPE alone "apparently" destroyed DC's chances of success, then oh my.....thats how you should launch a console.

PS2 had support of every majr 3rd party at launch & its hype alone led to one of its competitors bowing out of the race, hype of it being a DVD player too......thats a benchmark launch if there was ever one from a business perspective.

Actually, EA then wasn't as big as EA now.  They were Medal of Honor, Madden, and Need for Speed.  And they did work with Sega on an arcade Nascar game.  They just never worked on a Dreamcast game.  I never did understand why.

I bought a PS2 when Zone of the Enders/the Bouncer came out (long after the headline PS2 shortages).  I guarantee you I had a hell of a lot more fun in that first year than my cousin did with his PS2.  Ask anybody who got a PS2 at launch.  There were only a couple of good games for it until late into 2001!  It was like Sony was saving Devil May Cry, Ico, Metal Gear Solid 2, and a ton of others until the Gamecube/Xbox launch.  Believe me, Darth.  The DC was a victim of hype but it performed well.

And GOOGLE the PS2 launch.  That thing was a train wreck!  Sony didn't even have a 1st party game available when the system came out!!

@d21lewis

despite all that, its hype led to one of its competitors going down......something not many launches of products let alone game consoles can achieve. YOu may see the achievement as "EVIL" but

If I was a hardware company, THAT would be my "desired/benchmark" launch for a "product" I take out.....what better way to launch it than its launch itself resulting in one of the competitors going out.

They are my reasons for PS2's launch being a "benchmark"

From a games perspective, you may have a point.

@Darth

Sega made/publsihed the following games on the Dreacmast in less than 2 years on the market.

18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker
Alien Front Online
Blue Stinger
Bomberman Online
ChuChu Rocket!
Confidential Mission
Cosmic Smash
Crazy Taxi
Crazy Taxi 2
D2
Daytona USA 2001
Dynamite Cop
Dynamite Cop2
Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future
F355 Challenge: Passione Rossa
Fighting Vipers 2
Grandia II
Headhunter
The House of the Dead 2
Hundred Swords
Illbleed
Jet Grind Radio
Maken X
Metropolis Street Racer
Ooga Booga
Outtrigger
Phantasy Star Online
Puyo Pop Fever
Rez
Rippin' Riders Snowboarding
Samba de Amigo
Seaman
Sega Bass Fishing
Sega GT
Sega Rally Championship 2
Sega Swirl
Shenmue
Shenmue II
Skies of Arcadia
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Shuffle
Space Channel 5
Space Channel 5 part 2
Super Speed Racing
Tennis 2K2
Time Stalkers
Toy Racer
Toy Commander
Under Defeat
Virtua Athlete 2k
Virtua Cop 2
Virtua Fighter 3TB
Zombie Revenge

And thats not including NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB games which were all aAA titles

Lots of quality gaming in there... add the namco, capcom and other various 3rd party support. This could have something to do with the benchmark that Peter Moore was talking about. DC was like a software blitz. You didn't know what to play every week for a good eyar straight cause there was so much to choose from.

Why did the Dreamcast sale so badly when it launched wit such a great lineup?

@disolitude

how many of those were 80 + on metacritic?

I am not denying it may have had a great lineup.....but a benchmark console launch defines its success, I find it difficult to accept a discontinued console can have a "Benchmark launch".

Won't argue with you.  The PS1 was easily amongst some of the best gaming I'd ever had.  That alone had me salivating at the launch of the PS2.  Like I stated earlier in this thread, at the time, I HATED SEGA.  Still, the success of the PS2 doesn't defeat the fact that the console launch was a disaster.  And the Dreamcast's failure doesn't defeat the fact that it had an awesome launch.  The only reason I bought a Dreamcast was that I couldn't get a PS2 at launch (despite having a friend who worked at the store, too!  It killed me to get that $350 back from him, the next day!).  It was an awesome console.  Even though I didn't get a Dreamcast on day 1, I envied its launch and I marveled at the games they were showing.

I'm not new to gaming.  I've been following this hobby closely for decades.  I subscribed to a ton of magazines at the time, too.  And the ones that I didn't subscribe to, I bought.  The general consensus was that the Dreamcast's launch was awesome.  When I read about the PS2's launch, the media (and my personal experiences) painted a very different picture.  Do the ends justify the means?  Who am I to judge.  All I know, is that I lived it.  Nothing you show me is going to convince me that what I LIVED was wrong.

*edit*  apparently I would argue with you :P

Looking at disolitude's list, I'm pretty sure a ton of those games were 80+ on Metacrititc.  The Dreamcast delivered in games.  It just couldn't reach the impossible sales figures that Sega of Japan needed to continue supporting it in the face of the PS2.

I played dreamcast last time in February, and that still is an amazing console i've played Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur and Shenmue and those games still look decent (especially Shenmue and SC) and havent lost anything from their magic. It has an amazing library

And this ^^^^ is why i have to constantly remind people that Dreamcast's games for the 2 years it was available on the market>>>>>>>>>>>> any other consoles first 2 years of games on the market.

All those great Sega Developed/Published games AND some Great 3rd party games like powerstone, Marvel vs Capcom and Soul Calibur ect.

Bottom line____________________________

Non negotiable.