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Forums - General - New Michael Moore Movie - "Capitalism: A Love Story

TheRealMafoo said:
Zucas said:

Thank you for introducing us to the simple term called spin.  I'm pretty sure most in there already know what that is so it seems a little unnecessary to have that so long and drawn out. 

It's not spin. It's a lie. Spin is reporting the facts, and the explaining why you think that information is good or bad. What he does, is piece storied together that have nothing to do with each other, to paint a picture of something that's not even there.

It's not spin. It's far worse than that.

NO spin is taking pieces of information and forming it in a way that makes it preferable to your position.  Spin is NOT and let me repeat NOT reporting the facts and giving an opinion.  That is an editorial.  Spin is exactly what I just said... taking bits of information, whether true or false, and forming in a way that is preferable to you.  Or, for how you get the name, spinning it in your direction.  Spin would be taking a single line out of an entire and using that against to represent an entire opinion. 

This is exactly what people like Michael Moore do.  Generally they come out as false statements and half-truths becuase the whole story is not being provided.  Now despite your definition being wrong you seem to get the gist of what it is.  Piecing together stories that may or may not having any relation and putting them to formulate a poing.  The exact definition of spinning.  Also may go under the irrelevance fallacy as well.  But considering spin is all about telling only a piece of the information or taking one bit and exploding it into something it's not. 

It's not technically a lie because what you are saying is based off some factual material.  But you also aren't giving the whole story because you don't provide all important details and facts.  It's essentially half-truths.  Letting them know only what you want them to know to further your argument and in a lot of cases over analyzing one simple thing said and turning it into a million things. 

Michael Moore does what any other political pundit does.  They take half truths and pieces of facts, put them together to form a somewhat coherent argument, and hope that people without much time on their hands will accept it as the whole truth.  Now some of these guys work will include some lies.  I mean if they can sneak pass all this spin why wouldn't they throw a few lies into it.  But for the most part these people are trying to portray the facts... just their twisted, narrow view of it.



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Zucas said:
coolestguyever said:
I like michael moore but why is he bashing capitalism? Is Michael moore a communist?

Bashing capitalism doesn't make you a communist.  If that were the case the majority of Americans would be socialists considering most firmly disagree with the basics of capitalism. 

Capitalism and Socialism are two extremes for economy.  There is always middle ground... trust me.

Your either capitalist or communist. There is no grey area. Lol j/k

 



Michael Moore is going to explain the complex root causes of the financial meltdown? I wait with bated breath to see what he thinks the causes are. I am also excited to see him incorrectly blame the bailouts on capitalism. I usually ignore Michael Moore, but I enjoy a good comedy and this movie seems like a comedic goldmine.  



He'll probably just be preaching to the masses who are already his fans.



Zucas said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Zucas said:

Thank you for introducing us to the simple term called spin.  I'm pretty sure most in there already know what that is so it seems a little unnecessary to have that so long and drawn out. 

It's not spin. It's a lie. Spin is reporting the facts, and the explaining why you think that information is good or bad. What he does, is piece storied together that have nothing to do with each other, to paint a picture of something that's not even there.

It's not spin. It's far worse than that.

NO spin is taking pieces of information and forming it in a way that makes it preferable to your position.  Spin is NOT and let me repeat NOT reporting the facts and giving an opinion.  That is an editorial.  Spin is exactly what I just said... taking bits of information, whether true or false, and forming in a way that is preferable to you.  Or, for how you get the name, spinning it in your direction.  Spin would be taking a single line out of an entire and using that against to represent an entire opinion. 

This is exactly what people like Michael Moore do.  Generally they come out as false statements and half-truths becuase the whole story is not being provided.  Now despite your definition being wrong you seem to get the gist of what it is.  Piecing together stories that may or may not having any relation and putting them to formulate a poing.  The exact definition of spinning.  Also may go under the irrelevance fallacy as well.  But considering spin is all about telling only a piece of the information or taking one bit and exploding it into something it's not. 

It's not technically a lie because what you are saying is based off some factual material.  But you also aren't giving the whole story because you don't provide all important details and facts.  It's essentially half-truths.  Letting them know only what you want them to know to further your argument and in a lot of cases over analyzing one simple thing said and turning it into a million things. 

Michael Moore does what any other political pundit does.  They take half truths and pieces of facts, put them together to form a somewhat coherent argument, and hope that people without much time on their hands will accept it as the whole truth.  Now some of these guys work will include some lies.  I mean if they can sneak pass all this spin why wouldn't they throw a few lies into it.  But for the most part these people are trying to portray the facts... just their twisted, narrow view of it.

 

Sorry, but that’s not correct. An example of Spin, would be to report that unemployment is 9.7%, and then explain why that’s the best thing in the world. I could explain how if it wasn’t for Obama, it would be 40%, and to use the low 9.7% number to mean he is doing a great job.

That’s spin.

What Michael Moore does, is more like this:

At a recent town hall meeting Barney Frank said “Obama is like Hitler”. He should be removed from office for his views on the president.

 

Now, that’s actually true, on a recent town hall meeting, someone arguing with Mr. Frank compared Obama it Hitler, and Mr. Frank said “Someone who thinks Obama is like Hitler is not someone I want to have a conversation with”

Taking “Obama is like Hitler” and distorting it to mean Barney frank thinks Obama is like Hitler, is not spin. It’s no lying either, as he did say it, but it sure is not telling the truth. These are the kinds of tactics Michael Moore uses. Anyone who watches anything he produces, and thinks they are getting any sort of truth, needs there head examined.



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Kasz216 said:

Can't wait to see how he totally rewrites history and ignores the fact that by in large it was his party that caused this "robbery".


As always... sane people don't take Michael Moore seriously.  He's a left wing Karl Rove.  A nutjob who if he's every told the truth it was an accident.  His movies are always hilariously inaccuarte and cherrypicked to support his conclusions.

"Fake documentries" are what is killing the documentry seen nowadays.

That's what interested me from the point i heard that he was doing a movie about TARP, since TARP is largely a Democratic thing, even if it's first stages were initiated in the last days of the Bush Administration.

 

It'll be interesting to see him move against that political mold in this instance, or at least to see how he handles it if he tries to spin it away.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Its always fun watching his film and seeing how effective he can be at manipulating his audience.

I find his documentaries enjoyable. But not enjoyable in the way he intends them to be.



Ok. so who would like to point out the blatant lies and half truths then?

Lets start with Sicko. While understanding that the guy has to make his argument while keeping the whole thing short enough for a movie, where are the awful lies?



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

Meh. Another typical Moore "documentary" bashing anything outside of his own pleasant political fantasies.



Complexity is not depth. Machismo is not maturity. Obsession is not dedication. Tedium is not challenge. Support gaming: support the Wii.

Be the ultimate ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! Poisson Village welcomes new players.

What do I hate about modern gaming? I hate tedium replacing challenge, complexity replacing depth, and domination replacing entertainment. I hate the outsourcing of mechanics to physics textbooks, art direction to photocopiers, and story to cheap Hollywood screenwriters. I hate the confusion of obsession with dedication, style with substance, new with gimmicky, old with obsolete, new with evolutionary, and old with time-tested.
There is much to hate about modern gaming. That is why I support the Wii.

stof said:
Ok. so who would like to point out the blatant lies and half truths then?

Lets start with Sicko. While understanding that the guy has to make his argument while keeping the whole thing short enough for a movie, where are the awful lies?

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1563758/story.jhtml

Here is a good write up.