american culture it's strange.
they have to LABEL things.
nothing inbetween.
yes, overall wii is a casual focus, its nintendo main focus now, it makes them money.
but there is a 100% in anything.

100% agreed, Majin-Tenshinhan.

i agree, wonder why they didn't bring this argument in the n64 or GC days, but now that nintendo changed their strategy towards the casual gamer they deny there is a difference.

But what was the definition of the hardcore gamer back then? Casual is basically a new word in our lexicon, and dates back to 06 or so, but hardcore gamer has endured a long time, but it's definition has been different again and again. The completionist was the hardcore gamer back in the NES days, when games didn't save usually, and beating them was a testament to your skill. The RPG gamer in the 4th generation, who spent his time poring over statistics and charts while everyone else was playing platformers and fighters. In the 5th and 6th generations, the hardcore gamer was the guy playing niche games, who scorned the mainstream (as i stated before), and now it's the guy who plays traditional games in the genres that existed before this generation.

Nintendo was hardcore in the N64 and GameCube days, strictly because they were unpopular in those days, or at least a lot of what they did was unpopular (Pokemon was mainstream, and so was Mario Kart), and the people who could still appreciate Nintendo's unpopular games were the hardcore gamers (the gamers who could appreciate their strange and esoteric stuff, and resist the mainstreaming of gaming to the GTA-Halo archetype).

I like to think of those who play for fun vs. those who play for challenge.
And while these are not mutually exclusive, certainly trying to do everything in a game can take the fun out of it. Also, those who are in games for challenge cannot sometimes see how others enjoy less task-oriented gaming endeavors.

Mike from Morgantown

I'm sorry, I don't know what the word "casual" refers to in gaming context. But if you look at my game collection, I can assure you that at the very least 90% of the games I have in there are games that I find fun. :D

I'll join you. As I've always believed the words were viral marketing created by Nintendo's competitors to somehow marginalize Wii's success. And echoed by forum fanboys to do the same.

Will there be cookies or ice cream?

I would assume everyone plays games for the fun factor, casual or not.

causal and hardcore got to exist in gaming.