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Forums - Sales - Killzone 2 SALES are Very Disappointing (Just Realized)

Infamy79 said:
No chance this game has made a profit, absolute ZERO!!!
Not saying it won't, but it definitely hasn't yet and would be considered a massive failure internally. Devs don't make games to break even.


Based on what data?  I'm not disputing your claim...I'm just curious as to how you got there?



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

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heruamon said:
Infamy79 said:
No chance this game has made a profit, absolute ZERO!!!
Not saying it won't, but it definitely hasn't yet and would be considered a massive failure internally. Devs don't make games to break even.


Based on what data?  I'm not disputing your claim...I'm just curious as to how you got there?

I would like to know how this was calculated as well.  Assuming the Studio spent only $30m developing the title (not a large figure for the HD consoles), then that would mean the overall revenue would be $120m at $60 a copy.  This means the developer would need to clear $15 per copy to break even.  Possible, particularly if Sony covered a lot of the marketing costs, etc.  But if the development cost was closer to $40m or $50m, then the amount cleared would have to be higher.



crumas2 said:
heruamon said:
Infamy79 said:
No chance this game has made a profit, absolute ZERO!!!
Not saying it won't, but it definitely hasn't yet and would be considered a massive failure internally. Devs don't make games to break even.


Based on what data?  I'm not disputing your claim...I'm just curious as to how you got there?

I would like to know how this was calculated as well.  Assuming the Studio spent only $30m developing the title (not a large figure for the HD consoles), then that would mean the overall revenue would be $120m at $60 a copy.  This means the developer would need to clear $15 per copy to break even.  Possible, particularly if Sony covered a lot of the marketing costs, etc.  But if the development cost was closer to $40m or $50m, then the amount cleared would have to be higher.

Yeah...somebody had a break-out for the revenue pie for a game...does anybody know the link?  Based on sales to-date...I'm not sure I see how it was a loss...The game wasn't extensively bundled (I don't believe), so I'm skeptic about that claim.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Killzone 2 has definetely made a TON of profit

remember the profit they got from map packs later on!



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

darthdevidem01 said:
Killzone 2 has definetely made a TON of profit

remember the profit they got from map packs later on!

How much were the map packs going for?  How many were downloaded?



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CGI-Quality said:
^^ Exactly. Basically, everyone is speculating WITHOUT #s. As long as there are none, Infamy's post is invalid and we have nothing to go on.


Then your posts are just as invalid because no one has the official numbers.

I've commented on why KZ2 wouldn't be profitable before and all everyone does is come up with rubbish justifications on how these issues can be twisted to not apply in this case.

You have an interview with one of the heads of GG saying the development involved from 140 people up to 200 people and we know its been in development for at least 4 years. You're not even including marketing budgets or general business costs either given they only work on one project at a time (except for minor overlap).

When there are comments from the company saying it involved up to 200 people in the last year and you get people making bullshit suggestions like the extras are probably only part time temps, then I'm not wasting any more of my time going over it all over again, there's no point, fanboys are blind except for what they want to see.

You can kid yourself all you like, but there is no chance in hell that Killzone 2 is currently profitable.



Never argue with idiots
They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience

Infamy79 said:
CGI-Quality said:
^^ Exactly. Basically, everyone is speculating WITHOUT #s. As long as there are none, Infamy's post is invalid and we have nothing to go on.


Then your posts are just as invalid because no one has the official numbers.

I've commented on why KZ2 wouldn't be profitable before and all everyone does is come up with rubbish justifications on how these issues can be twisted to not apply in this case.

You have an interview with one of the heads of GG saying the development involved from 140 people up to 200 people and we know its been in development for at least 4 years. You're not even including marketing budgets or general business costs either given they only work on one project at a time (except for minor overlap).

When there are comments from the company saying it involved up to 200 people in the last year and you get people making bullshit suggestions like the extras are probably only part time temps, then I'm not wasting any more of my time going over it all over again, there's no point, fanboys are blind except for what they want to see.

You can kid yourself all you like, but there is no chance in hell that Killzone 2 is currently profitable.

First, you appear to admit, 'my claim may be sheer speculation but then so is yours.'

But then, you claim something closer to, 'my claim is 100% factual and you are deluding yourself if you disagree with me.'

Which is your true position? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

I think single campain in killzone 2 is too slow :S the online is cool though. but the fact that is important to cover and that's cool but that also makes the single campain slow. but is far from epic.



F.U. Fun University.

Infamy79 said:
CGI-Quality said:
^^ Exactly. Basically, everyone is speculating WITHOUT #s. As long as there are none, Infamy's post is invalid and we have nothing to go on.


Then your posts are just as invalid because no one has the official numbers.

I've commented on why KZ2 wouldn't be profitable before and all everyone does is come up with rubbish justifications on how these issues can be twisted to not apply in this case.

You have an interview with one of the heads of GG saying the development involved from 140 people up to 200 people and we know its been in development for at least 4 years. You're not even including marketing budgets or general business costs either given they only work on one project at a time (except for minor overlap).

When there are comments from the company saying it involved up to 200 people in the last year and you get people making bullshit suggestions like the extras are probably only part time temps, then I'm not wasting any more of my time going over it all over again, there's no point, fanboys are blind except for what they want to see.

You can kid yourself all you like, but there is no chance in hell that Killzone 2 is currently profitable.

That staffing level was probably not working on the project throught the it's development cycle, and you'd have to know the design phasing rqmts to wag the manpower demands.  Just looking at a staff os 200 people with an average salary of $60k...you're looking at around $50 million for personnel cost at max...and this is very likely your biggest cost driver, so I doubt at the very worst that KZ2 cost more than $60-70 million to make.  Now on the flip...the game has made over $110 million.  Games are not movies, where basically you have to half the number of Box Office gross between theaters and studios...Games are low margin for retailers...so while I don't think KZ2 has made crazy money for Sony...I hardly doubt that it hasn't made a profit...you DO know that GG is an in-house studio...right?



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

CGI-Quality said:
heruamon said:
Infamy79 said:
CGI-Quality said:
^^ Exactly. Basically, everyone is speculating WITHOUT #s. As long as there are none, Infamy's post is invalid and we have nothing to go on.


Then your posts are just as invalid because no one has the official numbers.

I've commented on why KZ2 wouldn't be profitable before and all everyone does is come up with rubbish justifications on how these issues can be twisted to not apply in this case.

You have an interview with one of the heads of GG saying the development involved from 140 people up to 200 people and we know its been in development for at least 4 years. You're not even including marketing budgets or general business costs either given they only work on one project at a time (except for minor overlap).

When there are comments from the company saying it involved up to 200 people in the last year and you get people making bullshit suggestions like the extras are probably only part time temps, then I'm not wasting any more of my time going over it all over again, there's no point, fanboys are blind except for what they want to see.

You can kid yourself all you like, but there is no chance in hell that Killzone 2 is currently profitable.

That staffing level was probably not working on the project throught the it's development cycle, and you'd have to know the design phasing rqmts to wag the manpower demands.  Just looking at a staff os 200 people with an average salary of $60k...you're looking at around $50 million for personnel cost at max...and this is very likely your biggest cost driver, so I doubt at the very worst that KZ2 cost more than $60-70 million to make.  Now on the flip...the game has made over $110 million.  Games are not movies, where basically you have to half the number of Box Office gross between theaters and studios...Games are low margin for retailers...so while I don't think KZ2 has made crazy money for Sony...I hardly doubt that it hasn't made a profit...you DO know that GG is an in-house studio...right?

I gotta tell you man, you have done a complete turnaround in your posting style, very fair. I give MUCH respect


C'mon dude...I've always been fair in my outlook...I'm a Xbox Fan (eventhough I'm force to support the Wii in my house hold...cry)...but 'm not blind to facts either...but thanks for the compliment on my posting style.   Speculation is one thing and we love to do it on this site, but posting speculation as a fact is another thing...



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder