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Forums - General Discussion - Climate Change, No peer reviewed evidence to prove it isn't happening

The part that gets me is that money spent fighting basic diseases, parasites etc in the third world will do more for them than all the money spent complaining how global warming is going to kill millions of these same people, whom we should be helping now.



Tease.

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TheRealMafoo said:
Sardauk said:
NKAJ said:
TheRealMafoo said:
LOL

You said it yourself HS, it's a religion, and religions are based of beliefs, not facts. You can talk to MegaMan until your blue in the face, and you him, you will always be wrong. No matter how much sense you make.

Climate cghange is not a religon

No but it affects US-christian's faith apparently...

But I'm an atheist, so how does that apply?

Climate change is real. Man making it, is a religion.

There we go again...



 

Evan Wells (Uncharted 2): I think the differences that you see between any two games has much more to do with the developer than whether it’s on the Xbox or PS3.

CrazyHorse said:
highwaystar101 said:

I don't understand what the fuss is about CO2, so many more potent gases cause climate change. Methane is 50 times more potent than CO2 and when I was doing my BSc I briefly studied a chemical that is 17,500 more potent and the amount we produce is rising exponentially year on year... and that chemical isn't even recognised or studied often.

The real problem is that we have no way of quantifying the effect humans have on climate change. It occurs to me when I read these debates that it's foolish to deny that man made emissions are effecting climate change, because they are. The real debate should be to what extent they are effecting climate change. Does mankind effect climate change in a small/unnoticable way (that's what I think) or are they effecting climate change in a large/we're fucked way?

Had to get that off my chest, it's just my 2c.

Completely agree with the part in red.

 

The part in blue - This is the problem when science gets political. All sides try to 'win' and the real science is often ignored. Made worse by the media getting ahold of the most extreme scenarios as that makes more interesting news.

 

 

I've addressed that in an earlier post. You are correct, scientific research is often marred by the media and politics in search of the next big story or the next political battle. Real science is distorted by the time it reaches the public due to so many people attempting to use it for their own personal gain.



Ok guys, we have a lot of evidence in this thread, showing how the models your clams are based on don't add up.

Why are you all avoiding that science, and just continuing on? Address Sqrl's post at a minimum. I have yet to see anyone even acknowledge what he posted.



TheRealMafoo said:
Ok guys, we have a lot of evidence in this thread, showing how the models your clams are based on don't add up.

Why are you all avoiding that science, and just continuing on? Address Sqrl's post at a minimum. I have yet to see anyone even acknowledge what he posted.

I'm pretty sure I acknowledged what he said and addressed his points?



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megaman79 said:
The problem is you have spent so long saying it isn't real right now nobody believes you. You critisize the data from our end but praise the honesty and integrity of your own severely under funded and non peer reviewed research at your end. Its bullshit.

What you don't seem to understand is that I don't have to demonstrate that I am correct, I just have to demonstrate that you're wrong ; that is the nature of science.



Sqrl said:
megaman79 said:
^ meanwhile the french are f----ed. Australia's wine regions are drying out also.

Which brings me to the bleeding obvious point, why are glaciers and the polar caps melting? Why are birds, in the United States, migrating further north.

@Sqrl and Happy Squirrel, Show me the source. I want to see where exactly you got those figures. Im still waiting for PEER REVIEWED RESEARCH. It can't be so difficult can it?

So how many links in how many threads do I have to go through before you address some of it? I gave links to papers in the last thread..did you read any of them?

No seriously, answer, did you read ANY of those papers in the last thread? If not why should I go dig them up again?

Your entire deal here is to plug your ears and refuse to hear, I've linked numerous papers numerous times on this site in threads you've been part of, but here you are again asking for more....why should I waste my time if you're just going to ignore it and plug your ears when I do link it?

The problem is you don't want to find what is true - you want to find the answer you want.

You mentioned the last thread in this one, so here. That is my link. Go back to that page and read the 800+ page paper (fully sourced/cited) I linked to in that thread. When you stop being lazy about the issue and start reading for yourself rather than demand demand and plug ears when confronted...when you do that bare minimum of intellectual curiosity, then you can demand I link something more than the thousands of pages I've already linked.

 

 

Cool, so im going through your links from your thread.

http://www.heartland.org/publications/NIPCC%20report/PDFs/NIPCC%20Final.pdf

While Heartland once disclosed its major supporters, it now refuses to publicly disclose who its corporate and foundation funders are. In response to an article criticizing the think tank for its secrecy, the group's President, Joseph Bast, wrote in February 2005:


"For many years, we provided a complete list of Heartland's corporate and foundation donors on this Web site and challenged other think tanks and advocacy groups to do the same. To our knowledge, not a single group followed our lead. However, critics who couldn’t or wouldn’t engage in fair debate over our ideas found the donor list a convenient place to find the names of unpopular companies or foundations, which they used in ad hominem attacks against us. Even reporters from time to time seemed to think reporting the identities of one or two donors--out of a list of hundreds--was a fair way of representing our funding or our motivation in taking the positions expressed in our publications. After much deliberation and with some regret, we now keep confidential the identities of all our donors."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute

Supporter of tobacco companies, privatization of public services and deregulation of health care insurance.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

megaman79 said:
Sqrl said:
megaman79 said:
^ meanwhile the french are f----ed. Australia's wine regions are drying out also.

Which brings me to the bleeding obvious point, why are glaciers and the polar caps melting? Why are birds, in the United States, migrating further north.

@Sqrl and Happy Squirrel, Show me the source. I want to see where exactly you got those figures. Im still waiting for PEER REVIEWED RESEARCH. It can't be so difficult can it?

So how many links in how many threads do I have to go through before you address some of it? I gave links to papers in the last thread..did you read any of them?

No seriously, answer, did you read ANY of those papers in the last thread? If not why should I go dig them up again?

Your entire deal here is to plug your ears and refuse to hear, I've linked numerous papers numerous times on this site in threads you've been part of, but here you are again asking for more....why should I waste my time if you're just going to ignore it and plug your ears when I do link it?

The problem is you don't want to find what is true - you want to find the answer you want.

You mentioned the last thread in this one, so here. That is my link. Go back to that page and read the 800+ page paper (fully sourced/cited) I linked to in that thread. When you stop being lazy about the issue and start reading for yourself rather than demand demand and plug ears when confronted...when you do that bare minimum of intellectual curiosity, then you can demand I link something more than the thousands of pages I've already linked.

 

 

Cool, so im going through your links from your thread.

http://www.heartland.org/publications/NIPCC%20report/PDFs/NIPCC%20Final.pdf

While Heartland once disclosed its major supporters, it now refuses to publicly disclose who its corporate and foundation funders are. In response to an article criticizing the think tank for its secrecy, the group's President, Joseph Bast, wrote in February 2005:


"For many years, we provided a complete list of Heartland's corporate and foundation donors on this Web site and challenged other think tanks and advocacy groups to do the same. To our knowledge, not a single group followed our lead. However, critics who couldn’t or wouldn’t engage in fair debate over our ideas found the donor list a convenient place to find the names of unpopular companies or foundations, which they used in ad hominem attacks against us. Even reporters from time to time seemed to think reporting the identities of one or two donors--out of a list of hundreds--was a fair way of representing our funding or our motivation in taking the positions expressed in our publications. After much deliberation and with some regret, we now keep confidential the identities of all our donors."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute

Supporter of tobacco companies, privatization of public services and deregulation of health care insurance.

Ad hominem fluff.

Thank you for making my point about how you are afraid to debate on the merit of a point - you attack the person making it instead.  You are incapable of meritful debate on this subject it seems. You predictably went to the only thing someone with such a deficit in knowledge can do.  You try to scream "SHUT UP!"

According to you nobody can talk because they aren't peer reviewed and just in case someone links to some science you scream "NOT THE RIGHT SOURCES!!!" and "ZOMG ZOMG THEY GET PAID TO DO RESEARCH!". 

If what they claim in that paper is so horribly wrong lets have your undoubtedly concrete and thorough debasement of it.  It should be easy since its so obviously wrong ....right?

Meanwhile let me look at what you got wrong on the most basic knowledge available....(my next post)



To Each Man, Responsibility

This is all about more government control.



 

How about you not knowing what in the hell you're talking about?

Sqrl said:
megaman79 said:

2. Solar crap. Yes it affects it, as does Nino, but we are getting to the end of a solar period and IT IS GETTING HOTTER FASTER.

Yeah, NASA and NOAA disagree with your caps locked bit:

Source

...

 

It’s been as dead as a doornail,” David Hathaway, a solar physicist at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., said a couple of months ago.

The Sun perked up in June and July, with a sizeable clump of 20 sunspots earlier this month.

Now it is blank again, consistent with expectations that this solar cycle will be smaller and calmer, and the maximum of activity, expected to arrive in May 2013 will not be all that maximum.

For operators of satellites and power grids, that is good news. The same roiling magnetic fields that generate sunspot blotches also accelerate a devastating rain of particles that can overload and wreck electronic equipment in orbit or on Earth.

A panel of 12 scientists assembled by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration now predicts that the May 2013 peak will average 90 sunspots during that month. That would make it the weakest solar maximum since 1928, which peaked at 78 sunspots. During an average solar maximum, the Sun is covered with an average of 120 sunspots.

...

Still, something like the Dalton Minimumtwo solar cycles in the early 1800s that peaked at about an average of 50 sunspots — lies in the realm of the possible, Dr. Hathaway said. (The minimums are named after scientists who helped identify them: Edward W. Maunder and John Dalton.)

Follow the link above to read in full.

Solar Cycles are something I've been reading up on lately and it is kind of a guessing game when it comes to predicting future cycles with any accuracy.  However, once they get going on a path, they seem to follow a pretty regular pattern throughout their cycle. Additionally there appear to be multi-cycle patterns as well - but with the usual potential for spikes and variance these are much harder to identify in any statisitically meaningful way.

 

 

 You ran away from that in the last thread - so if you want to start a new thread on the issue how about we revisit your lack of basic knowledge on that same subject? 

You see what I did right there? I replied to you on a SUBSTANTIVE point you got wrong.  I didn't come back and impune your integrity - I showed where you were wrong about the facts. Now you try....



To Each Man, Responsibility