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Forums - Gaming - Peter Moore blames Wii for EA Sports staff exodus

I don't see how this is "blame"... Looks like good news to me.



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Procrastinato said:
HappySqurriel said:
Squilliam said:
NJ5 said:
For all this talk of creativity, can anyone name ONE example of creativity on a PS3/360 game which wouldn't be possible on a lower-specced console?

Fallout 3

Halo 3

Rage

Bioshock

Grand Theft Auto IV

Fable 2

etc.

You mentioned creativity, not innovation.

Besides graphics and production values associated with producing big budget games at an unprecidented expense how are any of these games drastically different from games produced by these studios on previous generation hardware?

While you respond to this consider that games like Half-Life, Counter Strike, Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Theif, Tribes, Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 Arena contained (almost) all of the gameplay mechanics that are available in modern FPS and were released over a decade ago on hardware that is less powerful than the Dreamcast.

Your statement goes a long way towards proving my point.  Why did Rockstar North, one of the industry's premier development houses, coose to make what is basically the same game with HD technology, rather than making GTA IV on the Wii, XBox, PS2, just like they did with GTA3, GTA:VC, GTA:SA (yeah I know they weren't on the Wii)?  Why didn't they make GTA4:Wii and bring a whole bunch of waggle gamplay into the game, instead?

The end result is, it doesn't matter.  They chose to not make a Wii GTA4.  They didn't want to.  Instead they chose to make the same old game (which has been proven fun, time and time again), with a fresh coat of paint, and a new story.  They could have chosen to make a fourth last gen installment, and fiddled with the proven gameplay instead.  But they didn't.  Ponder that for a moment.

The primary factor that determins which games are produced for which consoles is the decisions of publishers to minimize their risk ...

Heading into this generation the lowest risk was assumed to be developing games for the HD consoles, and the way to minimize the risk associated with their massive budgets was to ensure that the developers with proven track records for success would produce games in well known IPs for these systems. On top of this, the reluctance for publishers to fund similar games on the Wii can be explained (in part) by publishers protecting the sales of these high budget games by not creating competition for themselves.



Given the choice of retooling their work of the past 9 years to work on the Wii, much as it did from 2001 to 2005 (remember, they've been there already), and improving the experience overall, bringing what the fans want (the feeling and raw excitement of an american football game, which is largely a spectacle, not just a game)... which do you think any one of the individual developers would choose, given the chance to do so?

 

So basically its ""think of something new"" vs ""Re release the same game with more features."" OH THE HUMANITY THOSE DEVELOPERS HAVE TO THINK OF SOMETHING NEW!

 

Theres other ways to make sports games, you dont need realism or high end graphics to have a fun sports game.  In fact the most successful sports games look like this.

 

Made Midway a Billion dollars.

 

Still has people hacking and updating carts with rosters of todays players.  

 

The biggest sports game, Ever.

 

Still considered one of the best games ever also the biggest selling boxing game ever.  AND IT CAME OUT ON THE NES!

 

Dont give me that ""Oh boo hoo the Wii is a weaker GPU""  If they had ten players on screen with all the essential animation to make it a american football game on the NES then they can do SO MUCH MORE on the Wii. 



Procrastinato said:
HappySqurriel said:

But the design work that is rewarding is handled by a tiny group of people ... and in a game like Forza or Grand Turismo the majority of artists get the joy of modeling or texturing dozens of different wheel designs or spoilers in order to add customization options that few people will ever care about.


Let me get back to the OP topic, and comment on ths at the same time, albeit a little indirectly.

Ponder Madden '10 for a moment.  The design team spent most of the past year working on the new online franchise features, most likely, because it made sense on both the PS3 and 360, given their excellent network support.  In previous years, the HD Maddens have put a lot of effort into improving their animation systems, and their tackling mechanisms, to feel more realistic, and give the "you are really there" feeling a serious boost from previous iterations of non-HD Madden Football.

The Wii Madden does not support these features.  They can't (its not a choice) do realistic animations -- the Wii doesn't have the math-crunching horsepower to animate two football teams realistically with a reasonable framerate. They can't do the new tackling, because again, the Wii doesn't have the horsepower to do the physics simulation necessary.  They can't make the game seem as much like the flashy TV experience you get on a Sunday afternoon -- not even on a SD screen, with the relatively weak Wii GPU (relative to the HDs, I mean).

These are the design teams' attempts at making the game better, when it comes to sports.  They've successfully done it for years, too.  They can't really change the game (but they can add new gameplay features, like online franchise, if the console supports it decently) -- mostly what they can do is make it cooler, make it slicker, make it shiny.

Given the choice of retooling their work of the past 9 years to work on the Wii, much as it did from 2001 to 2005 (remember, they've been there already), and improving the experience overall, bringing what the fans want (the feeling and raw excitement of an american football game, which is largely a spectacle, not just a game)... which do you think any one of the individual developers would choose, given the chance to do so?

I bet they could recycle the most recent edition of XBox (not 360) Madden to work on the Wii.  The only real work required would be to update the roster.  Maybe they could squeeze a couple more minor features in... maybe the characters could have ~35 bones in their animated skeletons, instead of ~30.  Not the near 100 that the HD versions probably have, but it would still be more.  Cheap.. fast.. right up the Wii alley.  Well... not upping the animation bone count, but the roster update should be cheap.

Exciting?  Cool?  Maybe they could keep them from talking to the HD teams, and finding out how much closer to the football experience their games get.  Maybe they aren't football fans... they're just "creative robots" who don't care about football, but instead love to make football fans (who they don't understand, since they don't care about football) happy with new features they've cooked up on their own.

I'm not guessing here.  I know.

I'll take this one

 

First, I'd challenge the fact that customers are looking for a "realistic football experience." The best selling sports game of all time is Wii Sports. Not exactly a proper sports sim is it?

 

Secondly, you're only looking at Madden and games in general from a prism of improving graphics technology. I firmly believe that there are other ways to improve on Madden that don't have to do with making ultra-realistic individual blades of grass. What you essentially stated in your example though is that developers tend to not take risks by being innovative. I think we can both agree on that. When it comes to Madden in particular the developers have always just kept having simple, sustained innovations every year. The average gamer is sick of it though and has been very critical of EA because of it. So, dare I say that it's a good thing that the wii forces developers to come up with new ways to make their games stand out?



"Pier was a chef, a gifted and respected chef who made millions selling his dishes to the residents of New York City and Boston, he even had a famous jingle playing in those cities that everyone knew by heart. He also had a restaurant in Los Angeles, but not expecting LA to have such a massive population he only used his name on that restaurant and left it to his least capable and cheapest chefs. While his New York restaurant sold kobe beef for $100 and his Boston restaurant sold lobster for $50, his LA restaurant sold cheap hotdogs for $30. Initially these hot dogs sold fairly well because residents of los angeles were starving for good food and hoped that the famous name would denote a high quality, but most were disappointed with what they ate. Seeing the success of his cheap hot dogs in LA, Pier thought "why bother giving Los Angeles quality meats when I can oversell them on cheap hotdogs forever, and since I don't care about the product anyways, why bother advertising them? So Pier continued to only sell cheap hotdogs in LA and was surprised to see that they no longer sold. Pier's conclusion? Residents of Los Angeles don't like food."

"The so-called "hardcore" gamer is a marketing brainwashed, innovation shunting, self-righteous idiot who pays videogame makers far too much money than what is delivered."

Procrastinato said:

If I was forced to work on the Wii, I would leave too.

Lots more interesting stuff to do elsewhere. Let the blind, sightless drones, who work for money, not soul, do the dirty work of bringing the same old crap to the casual consumer in a "refreshing, simple, easy to use" way. I'd go do something interesting instead.

A zillion dollars might change my mind... then after making the zillion dollars, I would leave and.. do something interesting with it, rather than continuing on the dreary path of squeezing every last "creative" drop out of the Wii's now-ancient tech.

 

Maybe if EA started doing 2D sports games again, the art and programming teams would find themselves "challenged" to make something great, and would be interested.  Maybe if they used punch cards, it might be even more awesome.  Or tradeable sports card games!  I can hear the cash jingling in the casual "sports" consumer's pocket now!  Sports cards, and sports crosswords... the challenges await.  This does have to be done with a budget of $5 and a box of toothpicks, after all.  That won't be easy.  There won't be any sleeping for certain, and that'll be "fun".

Uh huh... So I'm guessing you no longer work in the game industry?

For the exact quote "Yes, I'm a developer.  You probably think I suck since I complain about the Wii so much, eh?  I'll share with you that, although I started on PCs, I cut my console "teeth", as it were, on the GameCube, and one of its million+ sellers was developed by me, and the company I part-owned.  2.5M was all it cost, and we got really lucky, IMO.  All the sequels kinda stunk, at least critically, although I guess they did decently well financially.  The last one was on the Wii, and it cost about $5M -- and we were a dirt-cheap development house with about 30 employees."

>_>



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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Somewhere along the way here you guys lost sight of the fact that I'm talking about developer enthusiasm, and not publisher profiteering, or what the Wii consumer wants.

Re-read my posts with that in mind, if you care to ponder it more.

And yes, Maxwell, I still work in the industry, and as I stated in my personal email to you, Wii work was not lucrative, as a dev, and it was uninspiring -- and that same sentiment is shared far and wide amongst many high-end developers.

I'm not really sure what you were getting at, with the email quoting, but I did note that it was a profoundly unprofessional action which is not appreciated by me, and doesn't do any wonders for VGChartz' reputation, either, as you are acting as a VGC representative whenever you post.



 

Procrastinato said:
Somewhere along the way here you guys lost sight of the fact that I'm talking about developer enthusiasm, and not publisher profiteering, or what the Wii consumer wants.

Re-read my posts with that in mind, if you care to ponder it more.

And yes, Maxwell, I still work in the industry, and as I stated in my personal email to you, Wii work was not lucrative, as a dev, and it was uninspiring -- and that same sentiment is shared far and wide amongst many high-end developers.

I'm not really sure what you were getting at, with the email quoting, but I did note that it was a profoundly unprofessional action which is not appreciated by me, and doesn't do any wonders for VGChartz' reputation, either, as you are acting as a VGC representative whenever you post.

Developer Enthusiasm?

 

Sounds like you have none and want a quick buck. 

 

 

 

 



Procrastinato said:
Somewhere along the way here you guys lost sight of the fact that I'm talking about developer enthusiasm, and not publisher profiteering, or what the Wii consumer wants.

Re-read my posts with that in mind, if you care to ponder it more.

And yes, Maxwell, I still work in the industry, and as I stated in my personal email to you, Wii work was not lucrative, as a dev, and it was uninspiring -- and that same sentiment is shared far and wide amongst many high-end developers.

I'm not really sure what you were getting at, with the email quoting, but I did note that it was a profoundly unprofessional action which is not appreciated by me, and doesn't do any wonders for VGChartz' reputation, either, as you are acting as a VGC representative whenever you post.

Of course we ride right past the part of your blatant lie I suppose? Remember how you used to troll all those threads from the various developers pointing out how the Wii was actually cheaper to develop for? And how you claimed that you knew this because you worked on it? But you would quit before working on the Wii, so that doesn't add up. I am going to ignore the fictional Gamecube game you made because its not worth my time pointing out how that is bullshit.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Procrastinato said:
Somewhere along the way here you guys lost sight of the fact that I'm talking about developer enthusiasm, and not publisher profiteering, or what the Wii consumer wants.

Re-read my posts with that in mind, if you care to ponder it more.

And yes, Maxwell, I still work in the industry, and as I stated in my personal email to you, Wii work was not lucrative, as a dev, and it was uninspiring -- and that same sentiment is shared far and wide amongst many high-end developers.

I'm not really sure what you were getting at, with the email quoting, but I did note that it was a profoundly unprofessional action which is not appreciated by me, and doesn't do any wonders for VGChartz' reputation, either, as you are acting as a VGC representative whenever you post.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"