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All three men had radical even revolutionary views. This raises the hope that if the game is morality driven that the lines will be fairly blurry, and or ambiguous. I love Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, and the like. However ninety percent of the time you can peg an action as either good or evil in those games. I like the idea that I can end up doing evil when I had good intentions. That is how a lot of good people end up being villains.



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Dodece said:
All three men had radical even revolutionary views. This raises the hope that if the game is morality driven that the lines will be fairly blurry, and or ambiguous. I love Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, and the like. However ninety percent of the time you can peg an action as either good or evil in those games. I like the idea that I can end up doing evil when I had good intentions. That is how a lot of good people end up being villains.

True, although I thought Tenpenny Tower was a pretty good example of that. In the Pitt arguably was, as well.



And the scrolls keep getting longer



Dodece said:
All three men had radical even revolutionary views. This raises the hope that if the game is morality driven that the lines will be fairly blurry, and or ambiguous. I love Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, and the like. However ninety percent of the time you can peg an action as either good or evil in those games. I like the idea that I can end up doing evil when I had good intentions. That is how a lot of good people end up being villains.


Im starting to getting my hopes up for something original.

'Dimitri - the political simulation game'. (that title would suck though)



Can somebody name the lsit again...Che, Robspeirre, Lincoln?



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

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Yeah I cant wait to see what they are going to put out



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heruamon said:
Can somebody name the lsit again...Che, Robspeirre, Lincoln?

Yep.



Update

"He who is to be a good ruler must have first been ruled."

Aristotle



I wonder if it's going to be some form of RTS/godsim



我是广州人

digitalentourage said:
JaggedSac said:
digitalentourage said:
JaggedSac said:
Well, there are plenty of people who think Fable 2 is a good game. I am sorry you did not enjoy your experience with it.

exactly, and I'm fine with that. I want people to enjoy gaming. But it doesn't mean my opinion isn't a valid piece of discussion, there are a lot of people that don't like it as well, and while I may be on the extreme, NO one denies that this game was supposed to be so much more, and I'm sure you all hope that they manage to make that vision true some day.

it's very obivious what was intended.

I agree.  An opinion is an opinion.  What you should learn, however, is that ole Pete tends to let his tongue wag about what he wants in his games.  Most developers have high aspirations just like Pete, most don't tell the press.  The only thing I was disappointed with in Fable 2 was the multiplayer.  It felt tacked on and would probably rather them have spent their time on something else.  I felt Fable 2 > Fable 1 on pretty much all aspects though.  Very interesting that you like 1 but not 2. 

Peter is an amazing designer, and I feel he has all the right ideas when he puts together his games, I feel he wants to show the world that he can do this, and I feel he has all the right reasons to want to.

The problem is that the game just falls short in every aspect of the game, so unless you can percieve the entireness of the game while you're playing through it at that exact time, I just feel like it falls shallow. The jobs for instance, they didn't need to be all the same, they could of been QTEs, spinning the analog sticks, something! just SOMETHING else! It was so mundane. I felt the game was balanced so horribly as well, it was basically impossible to make any reasonable amount of money doing these jobs, becoming a master blacksmith did not unlock you any cool self made weapon, there was no crafting in the game, even though you could BE a blacksmith, there was no point or insightive to run any of the shops you had because all they present to the player is a small uninteresting minigame with no consequences.

It was far too easy to switch from pure evil to pure good, the NPC ai was so bad, I mean, I wake up and the entire town follows me into my house babbling nonsense? I start doing emotes and they all gather around me and just stand in a circle? It's all so unbelievable. There could of been an amazing world that would of been mysterious, mystical, and wonderful to explore and it's there, it's just that the game attempting to do so much made every aspect of the game fall flat. What's the point of getting married? There's no special dialogue, there's no special actions, your wife does nothing interesting at all (or husband). The characters feel so dead and flat. As a programmer myself, and someone who plans on getting into the industry after I finish my masters, I just find this to be a game that I was highly interested in experiencing that did nothing new or innovative, infact, because it attempted to do so many different things, this game fell behind games that were more focused on certain aspects. (hence my Too Human reference, while the game is horrible, Too Human's combat was eons better than Fable II's).

Here's a few things I think could of really made fable II a wonderful game deserving of its current metacritic score.

AI needs to be improved drastically, people need to be believable. They need to act belivable. Assassin's Creed did this much better than Fable II did. The AI in this game has the insightive to be better, but again, because it doesn't make it all the way they just appear like puppets and it's just so uninspiring... there's no reason to have any emotion towards them at all.

Make the Jobs different. Make them meaningful, give PURPOSE to the actions of the player... this is non existant in the game right now. The Minigames are okay, but make them distinctively different. QTEs work fine, the bars are fine, but it is mind boringly stupid the way it is now.

Character customization and creation and development: I know fable II is supposed to be a lite RPG, one that is designed to accompany people who have no experience with gaming and that's fine... but you need to consider those that do as well. Opening doors to other types of people to a new genre is a good thing, but if you never develop your character customization and growth system to be meaningful to the game at all, or ramp up the complexity, how are you introducing them to the genre? Fable II is not in any way representative of what an RPG should have in those terms.

Character Interaction: Wasn't this what Molyneux preached about most? then why is the system so out dated and lame? there's literally no emotion, character or personality in any of the characters in this game besides a select few of primary story elements. The game was supposed to be about getting away from JUST a primary story, but the rest of the game is so pale and lacking of color(metaphorically, it has lots of color:P)


Quests need to be more involved, combat needs to be much more involved, puzzles need to be harder at LATER parts in the game, rewards need to be useful, customization needs to be completely revamped to match that of RPGs of our day and age, that is, make them streamlined and simple to understand but do not remove the depth that exists in them! See: Mass Effect.

The weapons need to have some sort of logical progression, there needs to be a purpose to putting on armor, it should not be no different than wearing a tshirt. Do you know why it is this way? because the developers got overwhelmed with types of things that you can do, and the result is that every aspect is cut thin.

We also need a boss that isn't a Troll, can we please have ONE OTHER BOSS? It's just so freaking lacking. The banshees do not count as bosses either, they are hardly stronger than a pack of beetles. AND HOW MANY DAMN BEETLES DO I NEED TO FIGHT? There are is no diversity to this game at all and that's what it attempted to be, the most diverse game ever and it ended up being so shallow and lacking in diversity that it was a total disapointment TO ME a HUGE fable fan.

 

The above statements are clearly the opinion of a fable fan, there is no way I would go into that much detail if I didn't care.

Well, you've definitely described in vivid detail why you don't like Fable II.  I don't feel you're trolling as much as I feel sorry for you.  Let me explain.

I remember when the first Star Wars movie came out in '77 (yeah, I'm an old guy).  The vast majority (and I mean VAST) who went to see it loved the movie.  A number of fans saw the movie several hundred times before it left the theater, and most movie critics hailed it as a significant accomplishment and a great example of pure entertainment.

But, as is always the case due to human differences in taste, there were a couple of critics (don't remember their names offhand) who panned it.  Yep, they didn't like it.  "Cheesy space opera", "poor acting", "flaws in the special effects", "plot inconsistencies", etc.  And they were right, from a technical perspective.  Yeah, Harrison Ford sometimes delivered really stiff lines ("What's so important? What's he carryin'?" comes to mind).  The special effects imperfections was one of the primary reasons Lucas went back and created new versions later on.  The same can be said for the Lord of the Rings movies (there are web sites devoted to the inconsistencies, alone).

The sad fact of the matter is that people who are overly critical often just can't relax and enjoy a thing that was simply meant to be enjoyed instead of analyzed.  I have a friend who can't stand it if a movie doesn't end the way he thinks it should, or if it doesn't follow the book plot exactly, and I would have given up going to the movies long ago if I felt that way.  Shoot... I even enjoyed Independence Day... not because it was technically flawless (it wasn't), but because it was *fun*.

Yes, Fable II has flaws and isn't the end-all open-world RPG I hoped it would be.  But once I began playing it and realized it wasn't exactly what I thought it was going to be (I was looking for another Oblivion), I relaxed and decided to enjoy it for what it was instead of expecting it to somehow fill *my* expectations instead of those of the creator.  In my opinion, life is way too short to constantly set the bar so high that I'm going to be disappointed most of the time.

So, I'm looking forward to whatever Peter announces.  Yeah, it may end up being something I won't enjoy, but I'm not going to try and tear it down if I end up not liking it, particularly if a very large number of gamers end up really enjoying it.  Why should I pee into the wind like that?  I'm sure any game you list that you thought was fantastic, I can tear it apart from a technical perspective, but I don't see the point in it.