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Forums - General - Do You Think Obama is a Socialist... Do You Care?

Rath said:

@Kasz. The Nazis took control of businesses to turn Germany into a war machine, not because of their supposed socialist ideology.

@TheRealMafoo. That part of the bill should be something you're happy about - they essentially want to make it possible for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to actually fail, currently they are too big and too entwined in the market. The want to have the ability to wind them down.

Its actually probably one of the least outrageous things he put into the bill, it was entirely expected after the Fannie and Freddie debacle. His rather extreme regulation was the thing that actually annoyed the banks.

Except that the Nazi's were a byproduct of the "Third Position" movement.

That was against both Capitalism and Socialism and believed in a third way different from "both evils."

So yeah... it was politcal beliefs.



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Rath said:

Edit:@Viper. Can you post some proof that Freddie and Fannie were controlled by the govt pre-crisis? I'm useless at finding this stuff online and I'm interested to find this stuff out =P

The 2 companies are Government Sponsored Enterprises.  Yes they were privately owned but chartered by the government which held some sway in policy and direction in exchange for their government backed security making their securities seem more valuable.

They were not completely free market.

 

Beoulve said:
Why aree amricanss dso afraid of socialst?s!? Aer yu afraid of a welfare system that actualy havet the people's interests in mind?! I always vote fro the socialts in my country, because I care more abut the people than the richmens wallets.

In America, we have many, many social programs so we aren't afraid of serives for the benefit of the people overall.  What we don't want is the government interfering with the market because it causes bubbles and crashes (like we just had).  We also prefer that the free market handle as many of the services as possible because it tends to provide better service for cheaper than what the government can do.

 

We all want the same thing, we simply differ on who should provide it and through what means.

 

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Also, while I'm thinking about it, the idea of Conservatism vs. Liberalism says a lot about how far left our "left-wing" politicians in the US are. The opposite of "conservative" is not liberal - it's "progressive".



Khuutra said:
Also, while I'm thinking about it, the idea of Conservatism vs. Liberalism says a lot about how far left our "left-wing" politicians in the US are. The opposite of "conservative" is not liberal - it's "progressive".

Really what i find interesting is that Europeon governments are actually going more right wing lately.

According to the political compass at least Barak Obama is more leftwing then any UK party outside of the Green party.

 

The progressive vs Liberal thing in the US is more about how the dialog changed because of political beliefs.

 



Obama is liberal by UK standards (still not liberal compared to many continental countries it must be said) but the republican party is just so scarily right.

I don't know of many Western countries with a political divide quite as wide as America.



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Rath said:
Obama is liberal by UK standards (still not liberal compared to many continental countries it must be said) but the republican party is just so scarily right.

I don't know of many Western countries with a political divide quite as wide as America.

What is so scary about the Republican party that could not be balanced out by an equally scary position by the Democrat party?



HappySqurriel said:
Rath said:
Obama is liberal by UK standards (still not liberal compared to many continental countries it must be said) but the republican party is just so scarily right.

I don't know of many Western countries with a political divide quite as wide as America.

What is so scary about the Republican party that could not be balanced out by an equally scary position by the Democrat party?

Well I'm sure the evangelical right do see the Democrats positions as largely scary - things like pro-choice and gay rights probably do scare them - however of course to me (a moderate liberal, at least in my country) the Democrats aren't scary at all, more like moderates.

Scarily right-wing however is in comparison to the governments of the majority of Western countries, there aren't that many major political parties in the Western world that are as right wing as the Republican party.



Rath said:
HappySqurriel said:
Rath said:
Obama is liberal by UK standards (still not liberal compared to many continental countries it must be said) but the republican party is just so scarily right.

I don't know of many Western countries with a political divide quite as wide as America.

What is so scary about the Republican party that could not be balanced out by an equally scary position by the Democrat party?

Well I'm sure the evangelical right do see the Democrats positions as largely scary - things like pro-choice and gay rights probably do scare them - however of course to me (a moderate liberal, at least in my country) the Democrats aren't scary at all, more like moderates.

Scarily right-wing however is in comparison to the governments of the majority of Western countries, there aren't that many major political parties in the Western world that are as right wing as the Republican party.

If you give the government the power to give you something you also give the government the power to take it away from you ...

If the explosive growth of the role of the government in your life doesn't scare you then you're a fool.



Happy, what do you base that statement on?

Edit: I mean the "if/then" fool then. The second sentence.



Khuutra said:

Happy, what do you base that statement on?

Edit: I mean the "if/then" fool then. The second sentence.

The role of the US government in people's lives is growing at a pace where the government will (potentially) grow more in the first year of Obama's first term than it has over the past 30 years ... Very few countries have expanded the role of the government at this pace, and I can't think of any which didn't devolve into dictatorships.