the larger problem here i see is history, specifically with PPC linage chips, die shrinks/chip mods (most of the rumors about size reduction require this) never go smoothly, and always for about 6 months have higher fial rates per fab, and unexpected increase in thermal leak... always

the last time there was a shortage of 360s coincides with the last switch they did, and i would not be surprised if that happens again. PPC4XX series did the PPC750 series did PPC970 did POWER 1-6 has, both IBM and Freescale/Motorolla have had this problem.

the only way i see around this is if Sony has been being solve is if sony has been making these things since last winter but if they have there should have been alot more loss in the wireless department.

who knows though maybe this will be the first time ever a pp chip does not have problems with a fab change but i doubt it.


note (i am a ppc fanboy it is far better then X86 im my opinion, i still have posters up in my house of the pentium II on the slug and the flaming dancing pentium 2 fab guy... this is however a very long running problem with PPC .... its still more powerful and more efficient chip architecture though )

Goddog - I'm not sure how long SOny has been making them but I know they announced a 45nm chipset a while back and said their target for putting them in products is Fall '09.

JEDE3 said: Euphoria14 said: @Slime_Beast Oh boy... Cell and RSX shrink. Money saved. Smaller Cell + Smaller RSX = less heat, which = smaller heatsinks which = money saved. PS2 components removed = money saved. Removed 2 USB adapters = money saved. Removed memory card readers = money saved. Pretty much I got all of that out of just the first production cost drop. You need to read a bit more instead of ignoring the facts in front of you. Now they have : Smaller case = Save money. Smaller RSX and Cell again = Save money. Smaller heatsinks and smaller fans = Save money. Shrink power brick = Save money. Remove power brick from console = Save money. <-- Less heat in system so even more cost cutting on heat sinks, fans, etc... Anything I missed? I know you obviously missed a whole lot of what he wrote. Thank you, he is bringing up the fact the PS3 lost money before the first revision... (which we already knew) to try and disprove that the revision wouldn't save money.... And one quick addition to you list. You forgot shipping = money saved.

see my post below shrinking the Cell will cost more much more in the short term, maybe better in the long term, but PPC chips are never cheap and never come down that much in cost 

@johnsobas

You know what it funny is how people are saying he is pulling this from his ass yet he has all this info from around the net to use. He has info that was once before claimed false and later proven true. Last time it was just like this too. People thought it was impossible and bullshit but then got a rude awakening when it was proven true.

Yet here are other people who are ignoring the info put in front of us within the last few weeks and instead say that a forum member is indeed the correct one. Only info those people have are "Well his must be wrong". Where are their numbers or facts to dispute the thread creators claim?

Tell me what is wrong with that scenario.

Goddog - Feb. '08 is when they achieved shrinkage.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/07/cell-down-to-45nm-ps3-production-costs-to-slim-too/

I never said they could not put them in products what im saying is they will cost a hell of alot more per unit then the old ones at first and require a hell of aot more to be produced then should be needed until problems with the fabs are resolved, good chips still come out of bad fabs, these chips will also run hotter then expected all PPC linage chips do after a die shrink,

I think a year and 3/4ths of working on them would be enough time to fix the problem you are talking about

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/02/ibm-shrinks-cell-to-45nm-cheaper-ps3s-will-follow.ars

they didnt have it yet but were working toward it and the numbers are guesses a that time none of which (other then size) im betting it lived up to 

to clarify it only exsisted on paper at that time 

edit a second time, what i am talking about requires production fabs, not test fabs which are watched over like hawks, 

also damn id like to getahold of the white paper when it comes out, ive got the wite paper for the 65 and the original and  the 2 xbxo white papers, you know there is not a white paper on the wiis chip id like to know more about specific changes made to it, it comes from a more direct far earlier ppc line 

You honestly think if the problem you are referring to was as widespread as you are making it out to be that Sony would put them in now? I think what you are saying is true but I think the problem has passed. think about this is for sony to save money. If it would cost more money at first i think they'd wait a little bit before moving forward.

Euphoria14 said: @johnsobas You know what it funny is how people are saying he is pulling this from his ass yet he has all this info from around the net to use. He has info that was once before claimed false and later proven true. Last time it was just like this too. People thought it was impossible and bullshit but then got a rude awakening when it was proven true. Yet here are other people who are ignoring the info put in front of us within the last few weeks and instead say that a forum member is indeed the correct one. Only info those people have are "Well his must be wrong". Where are their numbers or facts to dispute the thread creators claim? Tell me what is wrong with that scenario.

Many people here aren't ignoring the info.  That info is out on the  net but it is far from proven, in fact the isupply reports are quite sketchy.  I believe Sony when they tell me the PS3 costs 10% higher than it's price because we know what the price is, but when they tell me they dropped costs 70% we have no idea where that number started from.  Of course it was easy to make the costs savings at first because most of it had to do with mass production which wasn't possible at launch.  All of these things he mentioned will save money on manufacturing though honestly some of those are quite small factors.  However I don't believe it will be $150 in savings at all.  Nobody here is saying that Sony can't save money from a ps3 slim, we are saying this guy is making far too many assumptions and guesses based on unproven or sketchy data.  He is also an arrogant ass which doesn't help things.